My First Spin---Holly Molly :)

ocnek · Post by **ocnek** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:11 pm

Ok, I'm not that far into my PPL training, but this is my story.

I was up the other day doing slow flight / Power on off stalls. On one of the stalls my left wing lost all lift and dipped down rather dramatically. My instructor said that was the beginning of a stalled spin. Cool I though...then my instructor said with a grin.."Would you like to see a real spin?"...."Uh, sure!", I said.

With that we went up a little higher and did a counter clockwise spin. We came out after three rotations and leveled off. My instructor looked at me and said, "How was that?". "HOLLY SHIT!" was my answer. "Scared?", she said. (pause while brain processed what just happened) "Uh..I don't think so. Nope! Just more surprise on how the spin felt and looked like", I said.

We headed back to land and noticed that the Attitude and Heading Indicator were both out of wack (the gyros came off). Anyway the instructor said that was a sign of a good spin..hehe.

Anyway...
Fun stuff this flying is. I hope we do more spins, but I guess you just have to know how to get out of one with you PPL.

Thanks,

J.

767 · Post by **767** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:54 pm

i hate spinning... i enjoy spiral dives, especially the pull out of the dive.. that g force is just amazing

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:20 pm

ocnek wrote:Ok, I'm not that far into my PPL training, but this is my story.

I was up the other day doing slow flight / Power on off stalls. On one of the stalls my left wing lost all lift and dipped down rather dramatically. My instructor said that was the beginning of a stalled spin. Cool I though...then my instructor said with a grin.."Would you like to see a real spin?"...."Uh, sure!", I said.

With that we went up a little higher and did a counter clockwise spin. We came out after three rotations and leveled off. My instructor looked at me and said, "How was that?". "HOLLY SHIT!" was my answer. "Scared?", she said. (pause while brain processed what just happened) "Uh..I don't think so. Nope! Just more surprise on how the spin felt and looked like", I said.

We headed back to land and noticed that the Attitude and Heading Indicator were both out of wack (the gyros came off). Anyway the instructor said that was a sign of a good spin..hehe.

Anyway...
Fun stuff this flying is. I hope we do more spins, but I guess you just have to know how to get out of one with you PPL.

Thanks,

J.

Don't worry, you'll be doing more of them; they're required learning for the Private licence. I actually like the way your instructor lead you into the spin; they're supposed to be demonstrated at the end of the stall lesson and she got you into it without any buildup or long winded excuses. Nice job on her part.

C-GPFG · Post by **C-GPFG** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:41 pm

ocnek wrote:
We headed back to land and noticed that the Attitude and Heading Indicator were both out of wack (the gyros came off). Anyway the instructor said that was a sign of a good spin..hehe.

Glad you had fun.

Just a note about the gyros...the spin applies precession on them which causes them to tumble. They didn't come off of anything. They'll be fine after a little while.

ocnek · Post by **ocnek** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:27 pm

C-GPFG wrote:
ocnek wrote:
We headed back to land and noticed that the Attitude and Heading Indicator were both out of wack (the gyros came off). Anyway the instructor said that was a sign of a good spin..hehe.
Glad you had fun.

Just a note about the gyros...the spin applies precession on them which causes them to tumble. They didn't come off of anything. They'll be fine after a little while.

Yep...sorry about that... My instructor said they would be fine by the time we landed. Sure enough the Attitude was ok but the Heading was still in shock...hehe.

J.

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:07 pm

ocnek,

glad the spin went ok, and that you were ok with it.

during my ppl my instructor introduced me to spins the same way...ie no briefing, no explanation, just "do you want to see a spin? watch this"...and over we went....

to be honest the experience scared the livin' %^%$$!! out of me.....

it took me a 10 hour spin training course (upright, inverted, flat, accelerated etc) in a decathlon to get over my fear..now i love them and im good at them but i RESPECT them too.......i think youre instructor was lame for not giving you a proper briefing/de-briefing......

be safe.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:24 pm

alpha1 wrote:.......i think youre instructor was lame for not giving you a proper briefing/de-briefing......

Not at all; at the end of every lesson Transport requires instructors to demonstrate what will be taught on the next lesson, which is exactly what she did. Prior to the next lesson she'll brief him/her on spins and walk him/her through it.

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:40 pm

ocnek,

did your instructor sit you down and walk you thru spins, and the proper spin recovery, before you actually did one in the air? if so then good on her; if not, she's lame.

Red Line · Post by **Red Line** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:36 pm

Spins remind me of learning how to dive as kid. You start from a sitting position, then kneeling, then crouching, until finally you can dive standing from the edge of the pool. Then you can work up to diving boards and platforms. Same with spins. You start with power-off stalls, then stalls that induce a wing-drop, then incipient spins, then whaam!

I somehow grew a fear of spins before I had actually done one. Perhaps it was from looking at the diagrams in the Flight Training Manual, or listening to other pilots describe how "fun" they were. I am certainly not a roller coaster type of guy, and spins/aerobatics were never in my list of reasons for wanting to learn how to fly.

I didn't enjoy the first one (demo by instructor), but forced myself to do another (it always seems less scary when you're at the controls). It was time to head back to the airport when I really suprised myself: I asked my instructor if I could do another! Throughout my training I never passed up an opportunity to do a spin with an instructor. The more I did, the less scary they were.

ocnek, I'm glad you enjoyed your first spin. Good luck with the rest of your training!

Red

ocnek · Post by **ocnek** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:49 pm

alpha1 wrote:ocnek,

did your instructor sit you down and walk you thru spins, and the proper spin recovery, before you actually did one in the air? if so then good on her; if not, she's lame.

No...after. She went over why the plane went into the spin. The info she gave was fine with me. My lesson was on slow speed and stalls. The spin was just a bonus. I was not at the controls just an observer. She asked if it was ok to do the maneuver before she did it. It wasn't like "hey watch this.....ZOOOM". I agreed to do it....for which I'm glad. I'm a fair ride junkie so it was a great "ride" for me.

She probably would have never done it if the left wing didn't dip during one of my stall recovery attempts and me saying "wow that wing just lost total lift".

According to my syllabus steep turns /slow flight and spins are next

J.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:32 am

cpl_atc wrote:
shitdisturber wrote:
alpha1 wrote:.......i think youre instructor was lame for not giving you a proper briefing/de-briefing......

Not at all; at the end of every lesson Transport requires instructors to demonstrate what will be taught on the next lesson, which is exactly what she did. Prior to the next lesson she'll brief him/her on spins and walk him/her through it.
That's weak reasoning. Depends on the student I guess. Some of mine would never have come back if I'd just launched into a spin without any background or heads-up on what to expect.

So you're telling me you don't fam demo the next lesson at the end of a lesson? How did you manage to pass your instructor ride? Or did you just do a fam demo for the examiner then . it all out the window the second he walked out the door? On my last Class 2 renewal ride I was required to fam demo a spin; that was their thing that year. On a fam demo they want minimal lead in chatter, just a quick explanation and do it; if anything I probably pre-briefed too much leading into it, but I had 2,000 feet to gain before spin entry and nothing to do in the time.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:52 am

Anytime an instructor uses a "hey watch this", "wanta see" or similar other expression in a flight...Say no. You will not be less of a person, and maybe some instructors will get the message .
If the spin was to be demonstrated, it should have been brought up in the preflight...to ask the student in flight is akin to saying..."you a real pilot, because if you are , you must say yes"
Lots of accidents from instructors with this attitude.

If spins are properly taught, they should be a non-event for almost all pilots. If you were surprised or scared by the event your instructor is not doing their job...get a new instructor.

And dont be afraid to speak up at the flight school. Real, that is professional instructors, understand the psychology, and will understand the reason behind your request. there is simply no reason, (as one poster stated,they had done) to have to take a remedial spinning course because some idiot instructor got bored with their job and decided to impress a student with their awsome ability at flying. At the very least the CFI should be having a chat with this type of instructor about the basics of professionalism.

My two cents.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:21 pm

So if a student shows rapid progression you can't modify a flight to incorporate new skills? You have to stick strictly to the plan no matter what?

You ask me, that's far more dangerous a lesson...

Uh oh! Clouds on the way to destination, below freezing... oh well, gatta stick to the plan.

Hmm, that 172 has a passenger who's gonna yak? But I'm first in sequence, gatta stick to the plan.

ATC cleared me for a route I didn't file?!!? Well screw that, I'm going to stick to my plan.

There are a hundred legitimate reasons why a flight should be altered. Learning that flying is a dynamic industry where things don't always go according to plan is a crutial lesson. Personally, I think students should be prepared to adapt to changing situations, after all, the instructor can't always be there to hold your hand. If they had done a demo of anything but spins, this would have been a non-issue.

This fear of spins thing is crap. How many of you make fun of people who are afraid to drive in the snow? Or are afraid to tow a trailer? But then you'll go spend a page or two defending people who are terrified of spins, do them only when they have to, and probably couldn't recover anything other than a 172 because their fear has resulted in a lack of profeciency?!?!

People need to grow a pair. It's part of flying, you don't like it? Tough. Flying isn't a tickle fight, shit can happen and you damned well better be ready to deal with it. I know a couple people who hate spins, terrified of them. But you know what? They do them anyway, and they don't whine about it. They're both damed good pilots. If it scares people so much that it becomes an issue, they have no business in the cockpit. Taking a remedial course to get over your fear of spins, that was one of the best demonstrations of character I've seen on this thread. So you're apprehensive about it? Ok, go do it till it doesn't bother you. Truly a brave person and a better pilot for it, I'm sure.

rotorfloat · Post by **rotorfloat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:53 pm

If practical, conclude the air exercise with a perfect demonstration of the manoeuvre to be learned on the next lesson. This will help your student fully understand the home study about the next exercise and also provide a positive mental picture about what will be taking place during the next flight. Of course, you would not give a demonstration of new material if the next lesson was to be a review or a repeat of a lesson.

I went and dug it up. It is not mandatory to demo the next lesson. The wording is if practical, this would depend on the student as well as the lesson being indroduced. This is practiced on the rotary side as well. And as cpl_atc noted, some students may not benefit from this type of demonstration. I've had a few students refuse a demo of the next lesson, usually autorotations. No biggie. It gets briefed and done on the next lesson. It's never a "hey watch this" scenario.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:42 pm

There's nothing wrong with what ocnek's insructor did. The drastic wing drop was a good lead in to the spin. That instructor just took advantage of a great a great opportunity for a fam demo.

ocnek · Post by **ocnek** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:09 pm

mcrit wrote:There's nothing wrong with what ocnek's insructor did. The drastic wing drop was a good lead in to the spin. That instructor just took advantage of a great a great opportunity for a fam demo.

This is my feeling as well. She will without a doubt tech me what I need to know about spins before the actual lesson. But now I have a point of reference to what she will be talking about. Like a previous poster said. "Flying / Learning to fly is dynamic".

I don't think it was a case of showing off but rather a nice little lesson on how one aspect of flight (stalls) can lead into another (more dramatic) aspect of flight (spins).

She could of talked all day to me about spins, but on that first one, for me anyway, nothing but "hoooly Crap" was going through my mind. Which I would assume is the same for almost everyones first time.

Like mcrit says, it was a logical lead in to spins after I experienced the wing dip. IMO.

J.

BTD · Post by **BTD** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:30 pm

I don't think there was anything wrong with what the instructor did. Who is anyone on avcanada to tell her how to instruct the student that we have never met, when in fact the student is here him/herself telling us what a good job the she did.

Do people just argue for the sake of arguement?

As an instructor you assess each student individually and make descisions based on your assessment. There is no student mold.

Bottom line, the student is happy, and learned from the experience. I say job well done.

BTD

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:35 pm

I have to echo BTD's post. The student here didn't see a problem with it, so probably the instructor thought that the student was ready for that phase of the training and carried on in that regard. Even though it was a demonstration it led the student into the next phase of the training. If ocnek didn't want to do or see it, it wouldn't have happened.

Enough said, the parties concerned are happy, the rest of your comments as to their particular flight are just that: comments.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:42 pm

rotorfloat wrote:
I went and dug it up. It is not mandatory to demo the next lesson. The wording is if practical, this would depend on the student as well as the lesson being indroduced.

I think you'll find one of the main reasons for the "if practical" is that some flights leading up to spins are carried out with the airplane in the normal category where spins are a no no. I still maintain she did a nice job taking advantage of a situation with the wing drop and showing where it leads.

petey · Post by **petey** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:50 pm

As a flight instructor you should always try to demonstrate what will be covered on the next flight. It makes no sense to talk about spins in the pre-flight, seeing how the student most likely has not read the material, and should be focused on the lesson that's to be done today. (in this case stalls). The reason you demonstrate the next exercise at the end of the lesson is not to scare the shit out of the student, yelling "SO YOU WANT TO BE A PILOT ...EH!!" It is to allow the student to better understand the next lesson while reading the material on it prior to their next flight. The only way this instructor would have done anything wrong is if the student didn't wan't to do it, didn't know they were going to do it, or if the aircraft was outside limits to do it. If not, she's just doing her job properly.

CYQT · Post by **CYQT** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:28 pm

Personally, i think everyone is blowing this wayyyyyy out of proportion. The kid comes on here to tell us what a great time he had flying today, and that he even did a spin, and loved it. And everyone tells him to fire his instructor. Just say congrats to the young gapher and let it be. Amen

Aaron

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:45 pm

Aaron Lehman wrote:Personally, i think everyone is blowing this wayyyyyy out of proportion. The kid comes on here to tell us what a great time he had flying today, and that he even did a spin, and loved it. And everyone tells him to fire his instructor. Just say congrats to the young gapher and let it be. Amen

Aaron

Second.

ocnek · Post by **ocnek** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:11 pm

mellow_pilot wrote:
Aaron Lehman wrote:Personally, i think everyone is blowing this wayyyyyy out of proportion. The kid comes on here to tell us what a great time he had flying today, and that he even did a spin, and loved it. And everyone tells him to fire his instructor. Just say congrats to the young gapher and let it be. Amen

Aaron
Second.

Third

Snowroller · Post by **Snowroller** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:25 pm

Fourth...and I HATE spins,but let the kid enjoy his moment

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:28 pm

Agreed; I just think it's ridiculous for all those arm chair instructors to be criticizing his instructor's technique when, in my humble opinion, she actually did a good job. But hey, I've only renewed my Class 2 three times, what do I know?

My First Spin---Holly Molly :)

My First Spin---Holly Molly :)

Re: My First Spin---Holly Molly :)

Re: My First Spin---Holly Molly :)

Re: My First Spin---Holly Molly :)