All A320 Courses for awhile??

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:14 pm

Am I missing something here? Hammer says it now sucks for more than 2 yrs. I thought after you were done your two years flat pay and bid out of the PG you were on formula pay. Is that wrong? Seems with all the movement and hiring it shouldn't be hard to get out of the PG.

The Hammer · Post by **The Hammer** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:54 pm

BC

As long as there are at least +/-400 pilots hired after you, (apprx 300 EMB FO & 100 cruisers) then after 2 years at AC you get a good raise if your not EMB/cruiser. (especially you from Jazz). If not, it's "Pay Group til you Puke" That is assuming you don't want YVR base, because you probably won't hold it other than on the EMB or cruiser.

IMHO Anyone who was hired since Aug or later has a very really chance of being on PG wages for a long time. 700 pilots needed - 400 PG jobs = apprx. 300 newhires that won't be PG. Were you in the first 300?

thrust set · Post by **thrust set** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:46 pm

Hammer,

What about the LOU that allows the company to hire diectly onto the bus. Will these pilots be on formula pay after the two years?

ts

The Hammer · Post by **The Hammer** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:15 am

As long as they can hold it, then Yes. The problem is in the last two years AC has ordered/recieved 60 EMB, 15 CRJ705, and 23 CRJ200. These planes are doing routes formerly done by the 320 family. I don't think air travel has increased enough to keep the 320 family from shrinking. Sure things are rosy but the Canadian economy is screaming along right now (especially out West) and it's not sustainable. Don't forget the original CP/AC 320 fleet is getting long in the tooth as well. The only reason more "buses" haven't gone back is because the DC-9/737 wasn't replaced during CCAA. But I think they will begin too and then low man on the buses goes back to PG

WF9F · Post by **WF9F** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:03 pm

Hammer my man, no truer words were ever spoken.It is more than 2 years of crap pay( but that is being looked as as we speak because the CA says it should be for only 2 years from DOH but of course they are not doing that). Your vision of PG is also right on the money. Guys who do not bid out of PG now ( as in senior PGers) may even be stuck here for awhile as all new hires are going to be going on the 320 at flat pay and the company would love to put cheap labor on the 320 and keep guys in the PG versus going on formula.
Your also right on when you say the "Eat your young" mentality is alive and well at AC . Still the attitude of many that you have to pay your dues as a new hire at AC regardless of how long you have been in this great Canadian Avition Industry.
Some say it is a way for the company to recover costs.BS. How many guys come here and leave as soon as they get the endorsement.None. It is the same old attitude "well it has always been done like that". Probation is only one year why is flat pay for two?
And yes i knew what the pay was when i came here so save your breath, I've heard it before. I was also told the pay was for two years and that is not the case. It is more like 2.5 years by the time you get trained.

popo · Post by **popo** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:16 pm

right on...

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:33 pm

Makes sense now. Do those 700 pilots needed include all the retirements coming in the next few years or so? I was under the impression that there were 100+ leaving every year. Wouldn't that allow guys to get out of the PG for the foreseeable future?

monkeyspankmasterflex · Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:29 pm

Not sure how accurate the pay schedule below is, just wondering if someone could clarify the difference between "Pay Group" and flat pay. If it's possible to remain in "Pay Group till you puke" is that refering to the EMB FO column/Cruise Pilot pay or is there more to it?

Thanks

AirCanadaDriver · Post by **AirCanadaDriver** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:30 pm

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:47 pm

So to work for FEDEX you have to be an American citizen that has been living in the US for the previous 5 years. Sooooo, even if I was buying into your hard luck story, you wont be getting on at FEDEX so I hope that CA slot comes up for you...

AirbusDriver · Post by **AirbusDriver** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:28 pm

Thanks for the reply. BTWI have lived in the US for over 5 years, US Cit, and still live in the US. I just cant cant the call from them. The problem is that I only have 2 recs there, and I havnt been able to coordiate a time for the walk in to the Chief Pilot. I appreciate your advice. This still is the job I sought after as a kid growing up in Canada, hoping it will work out! However the purpose of my post was not to post a sob story, but hopefully to put things in prospective.

The Hammer · Post by **The Hammer** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:03 am

bcflyer wrote:Makes sense now. Do those 700 pilots needed include all the retirements coming in the next few years or so? I was under the impression that there were 100+ leaving every year. Wouldn't that allow guys to get out of the PG for the foreseeable future?

I believe the 700 pilots included retirements and a little bit of growth.

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:32 am

First post huh...

AirCanadaDriver wrote:

I hope this bid goes well for everyone. I am not sure I will be able to stay on with Air Canada. I have got the opportunity to meet alot of good people since I got hired. I am hoping to get an upgrade in the emj, I realize I wont be trained right away. I was hired in Aug, so with so few vacancies its not likely. I really enjoy being a part of AC. I met alot of really good people including the nice jazz folks I commute on. However, things have become very tight financially for me due to some tradjic events that have occured in my family. They are really close to foreclosing on my home and I am trying to make it work working 2 part time jobs in addition to flying at AC. This is my first post, but I see alot of bitching and complaining on this board. Your right both pilots at AC and Jazz are not being compensated anywhere close to where they should be. I know things are tuff, but just remember there is someone out there worse off then you. Put it this way, I have been sleeping at the airport cause I cannot afford a flop house. I get through it because I know someone else has it worse so I have no room to complain. I am hoping for an upgrade award or a call from Fedex, and I am hoping that it works out for everyone.

yycflyguy wrote:

So to work for FEDEX you have to be an American citizen that has been living in the US for the previous 5 years. Sooooo, even if I was buying into your hard luck story, you wont be getting on at FEDEX so I hope that CA slot comes up for you...

He answers with his clone AirbusDriver...

AirbusDriver aka AirCanadaDriver wrote:

Thanks for the reply. BTWI have lived in the US for over 5 years, US Cit, and still live in the US. I just cant cant the call from them. The problem is that I only have 2 recs there, and I havnt been able to coordiate a time for the walk in to the Chief Pilot. I appreciate your advice. This still is the job I sought after as a kid growing up in Canada, hoping it will work out! However the purpose of my post was not to post a sob story, but hopefully to put things in prospective.

Check out his other posts whining and crapping on everyone else.
LOL. Dude you are a fool.

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:33 am

AircanadaDriver,

Good luck to you and wish you the best, but you said this was your first post and then respond as Airbusdriver with 11 posts??...Which is it?

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:34 am

you beat me to it Gurundutherat.Somethings not right with this guy.

3Green · Post by **3Green** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:53 am

Looks like the "Psych Eval" just MIIIIIGHT have some holes in it

AirCanadaDriver · Post by **AirCanadaDriver** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:50 am

This is my first post on this topic may have been more precise. Sorry for mispeaking to you aviation gods.

waterpooch989 · Post by **waterpooch989** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:17 am

In the interview as in most other interviews, they always ask if you are aware of the payscale and the conditions of employment. Were you not listening Airrbus/Air Canada driver?

bobcaygeon · Post by **bobcaygeon** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:15 pm

The payscale/ conditions just changed in the last couple of weeks thanks to the new LOU and it wasn't an improvement for the bottom end

AirbusDriver · Post by **AirbusDriver** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:22 pm

yah well I was listening. Yah I had a family member die of cancer, and yes the bills are expensive in the us, and my fiancee who was helping me through the rough times was killed by a drunk driver at the end of Oct. So do not hand me any BS. I may speak my mind, but I dont sink that low! I dont even know why I am justifying these remarks. What I do know is that you really hate me that bad why dont you confront me in the crew room Why not, well most of you dont have the balls to do that. Hiding behind the computer! wow thats brave. So much for being able to have civil discussions. I dont slam others for their opinions, I may disagree, but some take things to a personal level.

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:49 pm

Embarrassing when you delete a post to cover your tracks AirCanadaBusDriver but someone else has already quoted it for all to read.

Jeremy Kent · Post by **Jeremy Kent** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:06 am

AirbusDriver wrote:...why dont you confront me in the crew room Why not, well most of you dont have the balls to do that. Hiding behind the computer! wow thats brave...

Dude, how can anybody confront you if no one knows who you are?? And the crew room is NOT the place for sorting out personal matters. Getting yourself and someone else all riled up before stepping onto a flight deck is a bit unwise, IMHO.

AirbusDriver · Post by **AirbusDriver** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:35 pm

I agree, but I welcome civil converation

All A320 Courses for awhile??

You know.......