British Airways and Westjet

[bmc]

Brilliant move for Westjet to move towards Oneworld. Aside from BA feed, there's American to the south, JAL and Cathay to the Far East. This will solidify Westjet's growth.

.....................................................................................................


BA LAYS OUT WELCOME MAT FOR WESTJET; CEO WOOS CALGARY CARRIER TO JOIN ONEWORLD ALLIANCE
Globe and Mail, 15 December 2006
The head of British Airways PLC said yesterday that he admires WestJet Airlines Ltd., opening the door to a possible alliance with the Calgary carrier.
Willie Walsh said he would welcome WestJet to the Oneworld alliance of carriers. WestJet is working to introduce a new computer reservations system next year, and that move could lead it to join Oneworld in 2008, industry observers say.
“I have a lot of respect for WestJet. I think it's a good airline and I like their business model,” said Mr. Walsh, chief executive officer of the British carrier.
He is visiting Calgary and his schedule today includes a “courtesy visit” to WestJet chairman Clive Beddoe. “If WestJet were interested in joining Oneworld, I could tell you that Oneworld would be very keen to have WestJet as a member.”
WestJet spokeswoman Deborah Knight said the meeting between the two airline executives will be mostly a get-acquainted exercise.
“Clive is interested in working with British Airways and 50 other airlines. It's just a general meeting to discuss future arrangements, if there are any,” Ms. Knight said.
WestJet president Sean Durfy said in August that WestJet is seeking to forge a special arrangement with Oneworld that would allow the airline to retain its scheduling flexibility, but cautioned that any deal could be at least two years away.
WestJet may also pursue strategic alliances, involving so-called “interlining and code sharing,” with British Airways, Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. and others.
“That's not part of WestJet's business model at the moment, but that could change,” BA's Mr. Walsh said in an interview from Calgary, where he is promoting his airline's Calgary-London service, which began two weeks ago.
The London-based carrier already operates in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal.
Mr. Walsh also said he's impressed with the recovery of Air Canada, which emerged from bankruptcy protection in September, 2004.
Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said the Montreal-based carrier intends to guard its leading position. Air Canada accounts for 60 per cent of the domestic market, 43 per cent of the overseas market and 38 per cent of the transborder market into the United States. By contrast, British Airways has 6 per cent of the overseas market, based on seat capacity between Canada and destinations abroad.
“We're stepping up our game to maintain our position,” said Mr. Fitzpatrick, who noted that Air Canada is sprucing up its fleet, including lie-flat seats in executive first class on long-haul flights abroad. Air Canada will also start taking delivery of new Boeing 777s in 2007.
Air Canada's Aeroplan loyalty program provides the Canadian carrier with a competitive edge, he added.
Air Canada belongs to the Star Alliance of airlines.
British Airways would benefit from some type of alliance with WestJet because that would provide more feeder traffic, which Air Canada already enjoys with its extensive domestic network, including its regional Jazz service.
On the global front, Mr. Walsh said long-awaited consolidation in the airline industry has begun and carriers will gain greater flexibility to fly new routes. He envisages a series of major airline mergers in the United States, Europe and Asia within the next five years.
“The landscape is changing. We're moving into a new era now,” he said.
Mr. Walsh said he was surprised to hear this week that a group of international investors, including Toronto-based Onex Corp., struck a $10-billion deal to acquire Australia's largest airline, Qantas Airways Ltd.
He played down speculation in Britain that British Airways could become a takeover target for private equity investors, saying that mergers among carriers are in the cards, especially in the United States. US Airways Group Inc. launched a hostile bid last month for Delta Air Lines Inc. while UAL Corp., parent of United Airlines, has been holding merger talks with Continental Airlines Inc.

[Speedbird Junior]

Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said the Montreal-based carrier intends to guard its leading position. Air Canada accounts for 60 per cent of the domestic market, 43 per cent of the overseas market and 38 per cent of the transborder market into the United States. By contrast, British Airways has 6 per cent of the overseas market, based on seat capacity between Canada and destinations abroad.

This is excellent news for air travellers in Canada in general. As Fitzpatrick is acknowledging, AC are now going to HAVE TO step up their game in the domestic market, because One World is a very powerful alliance brand and BA's worldwide network is huge. This could mean a major in-road for BA into Canada's domestic and international passenger base.

Do we detect a slight note of anxiousness at AC??

[bmc]

Don't underestimate the power and strength of Star Alliance. In Europe, the feed and flow opportunities are significant with British Midland, SAS, Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, etc. In Asia, China Eastern, Al Nippon, Singapore, Thai, Air New Zealand.

Air Canada has succeeded in serving Canada well for many many years and I hope they continue to do so. Regrettably, AC has become a punching bag of sorts and I no longer think it's justified.

[2R]

I am suprised it has taken this long .i had this discusion at the last ATAC conference in Victoria 199*.When Air Canada was using assets some 400 million cdn to put Canadian out of business.I said it would weaken them and it has,first they went bankrupt and now this.

The Icing on the Cake will be when Westjet announces the 777 orders
Watch the stock prices of each company the day after the announcement to see which company has the Governments support.It would be to easy for me to tell you which way it will go,have a guess and enjoy.

[bmc]

I have a feeling we may know the same people, possibly each other.

Westjet is in good shape to springboard to bigger and better things.

[North Shore]

Westjet announces the 777 orders

Errm, why waste money buying and training on a new type, when you've just joined an alliance that covers pretty much the rest of the world - with those same types? Wouldn't it be better to consolidate your niche, and concentrate on feeding the alliance partners?

[invertedattitude]

IMO You'll never see WestJet stray from the 737.

Why would they? Joining an alliance eliminates the need for that, and if they want to have their own transatlantic flights, they can do so in the 737. It's actually all the "new rage" amongst airlines. Airlines with Daily transatlantic flights in a 737NG are:

SwissAir - KEWR-LSZH
Lufthansa - KEWR(Or JFK?) - EDDF
KLM - KEWR-EHAM
(Amongst Others)
So a CYUL-EGSS or something is definately not out of the question for WestJet's future.

You'll likely never see WJA in a gate at EGLL simply because there are virtually no slots available, unless in an aliance with BA they give them some slot times. Who knows what the future holds, but it looks pretty bright for WestJet.

For that matter Air Canadas future looks pretty bright as well.

[whiteguy]

Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said the Montreal-based carrier intends to guard its leading position. Air Canada accounts for 60 per cent of the domestic market, 43 per cent of the overseas market and 38 per cent of the transborder market into the United States. By contrast, British Airways has 6 per cent of the overseas market, based on seat capacity between Canada and destinations abroad.

This is excellent news for air travellers in Canada in general. As Fitzpatrick is acknowledging, AC are now going to HAVE TO step up their game in the domestic market, because One World is a very powerful alliance brand and BA's worldwide network is huge. This could mean a major in-road for BA into Canada's domestic and international passenger base.

Do we detect a slight note of anxiousness at AC??

I think WS will be the one that has to step up their game to join One World.

Out of the three alliance's I think One World is the least powerful behind Star and Skyteam.

[invertedattitude]

I think the joining of Oneworld by WJA would be greater served with their new connections with AA, another member. Imagine the US Destinations WJA passengers could connect to then.

Maybe then WJA would stop removing domestic service to serve charters so much!

[Longtimer]

Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said the Montreal-based carrier intends to guard its leading position. Air Canada accounts for 60 per cent of the domestic market, 43 per cent of the overseas market and 38 per cent of the transborder market into the United States. By contrast, British Airways has 6 per cent of the overseas market, based on seat capacity between Canada and destinations abroad.

This is excellent news for air travellers in Canada in general. As Fitzpatrick is acknowledging, AC are now going to HAVE TO step up their game in the domestic market, because One World is a very powerful alliance brand and BA's worldwide network is huge. This could mean a major in-road for BA into Canada's domestic and international passenger base.

Do we detect a slight note of anxiousness at AC??

I think WS will be the one that has to step up their game to join One World.

Out of the three alliance's I think One World is the least powerful behind Star and Skyteam.

OneWorld does have some entrance criteria that Westjet will have to meet up with in order to be considered. Lack of membership in "One World" would not preclude Westjet from making an arrangement with BA but it would complicate things for passengers on BA, holding tickets from other carriers who wanted to travel on Westjet. That sort of activity would require Westjet to become a signatory to the standard IATA interline agreement. http://www.iata.org/ps/services/clearinghouse/join.htm Also of course then Westjet would need to establish a more complete International tariff that would address the proration of through fares if some of the travel was on Westjet.

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[bmc]

IMO You'll never see WestJet stray from the 737.

Why would they? Joining an alliance eliminates the need for that, and if they want to have their own transatlantic flights, they can do so in the 737. It's actually all the "new rage" amongst airlines. Airlines with Daily transatlantic flights in a 737NG are:

SwissAir - KEWR-LSZH
Lufthansa - KEWR(Or JFK?) - EDDF
KLM - KEWR-EHAM
(Amongst Others)
So a CYUL-EGSS or something is definately not out of the question for WestJet's future.

And all of those planes are owned and operate by Privatair of Geneva.

[bmc]

[quote="Longtimer"]. That sort of activity would require Westjet to become a signatory to the standard IATA interline agreement. http://www.iata.org/ps/services/clearinghouse/join.htm Also of course then Westjet would need to establish a more complete International tariff that would address the proration of through fares if some of the travel was on Westjet.

......................................................................

Actually, they do not need to sign the IATA interline agreement. A bilateral agreement is all that is needed. Specifically, they need to put a bilateral e-ticketing agreement in place. Settlement through the clearing house is not mandatory, but it does expedite settlement and offers some protection in the event of insolvency.

There's no need for Westjet to file international fares. BA has a far greater reach and distribution to effect that. Unless WJ has plans to set up a sale organization or a GSA in Europe, which makes no sense. Let BA do the marketing and selling and let WJ provide the Canadian network access. As such, there's questionable value to joining the clearing us unless WJ plans to interline with many carriers. The clearing house does guarantee faster settlement, but that's nothing that couldn't be covered off in a commercial agreement. As for proration, WJ will determine the settlement amounts they want for their sectors. No need to follow industry practice.

The multlateral environment of IATA has great benefits for multilateral interlining. If you're going at it with a select handful of carriers, the bilateral route tends to be more cost effective.

[arf]

The cost of maintaining an international operation is really not sustainable with the max loads available on an NG. If WJ ever could get their hands on a slot at, say, LHR, they would have no chance of getting close to recouping the millions and millions it would cost to get the slot with the relatively small numbers of passengers on a 737. I don't think it is oustide reason to consider that WJ will move up to some larger aircraft.

So far, WJ's strategy has been to grow slowly and steadily and to carefully manage that growth. This is why the airline is so healthy; I cannot imagine that the company will all of a sudden decide to expand exponentially in order to open up international markets more quickly. It'll happen but all in good time.

[bmc]

The cost of maintaining an international operation is really not sustainable with the max loads available on an NG. If WJ ever could get their hands on a slot at, say, LHR, they would have no chance of getting close to recouping the millions and millions it would cost to get the slot with the relatively small numbers of passengers on a 737. I don't think it is oustide reason to consider that WJ will move up to some larger aircraft.

So far, WJ's strategy has been to grow slowly and steadily and to carefully manage that growth. This is why the airline is so healthy; I cannot imagine that the company will all of a sudden decide to expand exponentially in order to open up international markets more quickly. It'll happen but all in good time.

Surprisingly, it's not hard to get slots at LHR. Getting good slots at the times you want is the ongoing challenge. I was with an airline that made the switch from Gatwick to Heathrow and met with the Heathrow slot people. At the time, there was no charge for slots which we found surprising. That may have changed.

There's no need for WJ to fly to London. BA's doing and they do a great job. Let them sell the traffic, and give them the domestic capacity to carry it.

[arf]

Surprisingly, it's not hard to get slots at LHR. Getting good slots at the times you want is the ongoing challenge. I was with an airline that made the switch from Gatwick to Heathrow and met with the Heathrow slot people. At the time, there was no charge for slots which we found surprising. That may have changed.

There's no need for WJ to fly to London. BA's doing and they do a great job. Let them sell the traffic, and give them the domestic capacity to carry it.

I didn't know that about the slots. I've read lots about the high cost of getting in -- makes sense for premium times.

I agree that WJ doesn't need to fly to London if BA is willing to sell them traffic. I still think that WJ will eventually move into European markets but as I said above only over the long term. WJ has never been a rash airline (except for the founding of the airline itself, which was risky, but they did it well and they did it right) and will probably take small steps into new territory for them, which a BA deal would exemplify. It'll be interesting to follow.

[bmc]

I can't see WJ coming to Europe. We have over 65 low cost airlines fighting it out over here. Airline operations are far more expensive t=here than in Canada. Two thirds of global ATC charges are from Europe alone. There's no business case for expanding here. There's a strong business case for providing domestic access to international carriers. AC has cut out international airlines from their domestic network since the demise of CP. The international airlines will come knocking down WJ's door as they catch wind of them exploring the interline market. This is a smart move for WJ. It is found money.

[invertedattitude]

IMO You'll never see WestJet stray from the 737.

Why would they? Joining an alliance eliminates the need for that, and if they want to have their own transatlantic flights, they can do so in the 737. It's actually all the "new rage" amongst airlines. Airlines with Daily transatlantic flights in a 737NG are:

SwissAir - KEWR-LSZH
Lufthansa - KEWR(Or JFK?) - EDDF
KLM - KEWR-EHAM
(Amongst Others)
So a CYUL-EGSS or something is definately not out of the question for WestJet's future.

And all of those planes are owned and operate by Privatair of Geneva.

Really? Cotinentals too?

[whiteguy]

IMO You'll never see WestJet stray from the 737.

Why would they? Joining an alliance eliminates the need for that, and if they want to have their own transatlantic flights, they can do so in the 737. It's actually all the "new rage" amongst airlines. Airlines with Daily transatlantic flights in a 737NG are:

SwissAir - KEWR-LSZH
Lufthansa - KEWR(Or JFK?) - EDDF
KLM - KEWR-EHAM
(Amongst Others)
So a CYUL-EGSS or something is definately not out of the question for WestJet's future.

And all of those planes are owned and operate by Privatair of Geneva.

Really? Cotinentals too?

Don't see CO listed and don't think they run 737s across the pond, 757s are the smallest. All those flights are all buisness class seating with 40-60 seats at the most.

[.......]

Would this be a first? An LCC joining an alliance such as OneWorld?

[bmc]

Would this be a first? An LCC joining an alliance such as OneWorld?

Arguably, Aer Lingus is a low cost carrier. Over the past three years, Willie Walsh turned it into a mean lean fighting machine. Staff reduction from 6,000 to 2,600 all the while maintaining the same fleet size and network. They cancelled 153 interline traffic agreements and only interline with Oneworld partners and 3-4 other carriers. Very focussed, disciplined airline.

AC, folks, has done plenty to replicate that model as well. I give AC a standing ovation for the steps they have taken. There are not many airlines that have made the moves that those two carriers have.

I no longer use the term LCC, preferring to call these models New Generation Airlines. The distinctions between network and LCC carriers is blurred, and a blended model is emerging. Network carriers need to respond to the LCC modelf ro two reasons: competition and it's a model that makes money. As they appraoch parity on cost, network carriers emerge as having additional features such as network, and glbal reach through targeted select interline partners.

This discussion is too much like work. It's Saturday morning.....I'm outta here for now.

[Greg87]

In regards to the 737 talk, with the 737-900 under development, that could give Westjet some range, I seem to remember a 3000 nm range and something like 200 pax, I'll try and find the link.

Ok, got the link,

- Carries 26 more passengers than the 737-900,up to 215 passengers in a single-class configuration
-Flies about 500 nautical miles farther, up to 3,200 nm (5,925 km)
-Weighs more than 10,000 pounds (4,536 kgs) less than the A321.
-Has lower operating costs than the A321; about 9 percent lower per trip, and 7 percent lower per seat.

Anyone know if Westjet has any plans to get some of them?

[grammar boy]

No. The 900ER is still less range than the -700.



However:

http://boeing.com/commercial/737family/ ... facts.html

- Flies up to 2,145 nautical miles farther than a 737-700
- Capable of trans-oceanic flights with the maximum range of 5,510 nautical miles (10,200 km)

These might be an option, only if we can get the roof-rack option with a big-assed Yakima cargo box for the bags that would be bumped due to the 9 aux tanks.

[EI-EIO]

EI are leaving oneworld