to all my instructor friends....

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:19 pm

just wondering, how long did it take u to get your instructor rating? did any of you instructors get it done on a part-time basis? how long did that route take?

thanks.

Zyxt · Post by **Zyxt** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:42 pm

started July 1st, finished Oct 25th, but a month of that was waiting for my flight test. But I didn't do it part time, but I did work part time while doing it.

Not working as one yet because the school I got hired on was crap so now I'm looking again, I hear there's a huge instructor shortage.

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:47 pm

thanks zyxt.

im considering getting the rating, to become a part-time instructor (have a real world job) so bear with me with another question: so you did it full time, plus you squeezed in another part-time job? that being the case, approx. how many hours were u at the airport each day?

sorry for this interrogation, just trying to get a sense of how it might be done...

Zyxt · Post by **Zyxt** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:57 pm

I did mine in a larger group (6) so we ended up with a lot more ground than required but we did MWF 8-10am ground class for 2.5 months, then flew on top of that, maybe 4-5 times a week. Also had a few 1 to 1 lessons thrown in. Flying took 4 hrs out of my day with travel time, ground prep, and the flight itself.

I'd say it would be possible to work nearly full-time, but difficult. The hardest parts were preparing the lesson plans for each excercise in a manner that an ab initio student would understand, takes a lot longer than you'd think. So plan some good time in the evening to do that.

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:33 pm

thanks for the advice. good luck with the job hunt.

let me know how it works out.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:20 pm

I started mine in 15th of October and finished April 11th while holding down a full time job. I did on average 2 to 3 flights a weekend.

Getting a job part time really depends on how flexible you are.

Oleo 4 · Post by **Oleo 4** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:34 am

Started mine Sept of 05 and finished May 06 doing it on an extremely part time basis as I finished up my degree. Completed the 25 hour groundschool requirement before christmas and then was cancelled for weather Jan to mid Feb (remember your susposed to be teach abinitio students so you need that horizon). Flying 2-3 times a week I completed the 30 hour flight requirement in 4-4.5 months. The rating itself isn't difficult, but depending on how compulsive you are to be near perfect, you'll find most of your nights away from the airport are re-designing, re-writing, and rehearsing that days lesson plans only to present it again the next day and have to do the whole process over again. It is a little unmotivating but when the flight test comes around and TC sees you are prepared, it runs extremely smooth.

Miss Mae · Post by **Miss Mae** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:35 am

I started mine in April 2000 and finished in August of the same year. I had a part time job at the time but was lucky enough to find a good instructor who was willing to work around my schedule.

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:45 am

miss mae,

interesting.

if u wouldnt mind, how would you define "good instructor" for the instructor rating?

WRX · Post by **WRX** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:38 am

I started in May 2005 and finished in August 2006. 2 times a week. I had a full time job(two days off per week). The beginning was tough, but once you get the hang of it, it gets better. I think the flight test was the second easiest one for me.... the easiest one was the class 2 upgrade...

Miss Mae · Post by **Miss Mae** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:53 am

alpha1 wrote:miss mae,

interesting.

if u wouldnt mind, how would you define "good instructor" for the instructor rating?

We all have different personalities. Just because an instructor is a class one doesn't mean that they are a good instructor for everyone. My instructor was perfect for me and I still keep in touch with her today.

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:03 am

mm, thats good advice. thanks.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:12 am

The class system for flight instructors is a poor bench mark for determining teaching skills much less flying skills.

I have met Class 1's who could barely tie their own shoe laces.

The class structure is just another game you play, the longer you teach the lower your number becomes, sometimes it is evident in the quality of instruction as well.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:49 am

Well cat you can always get Velcro shoes jeeze!

flyincanuck · Post by **flyincanuck** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:00 pm

Cat Driver wrote:The class system for flight instructors is a poor bench mark for determining teaching skills much less flying skills.

I have met Class 1's who could barely tie their own shoe laces.

The class structure is just another game you play, the longer you teach the lower your number becomes, sometimes it is evident in the quality of instruction as well.

Sadly, this is true too often.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:56 am

The class system for flight instructors is a poor bench mark for determining teaching skills much less flying skills.

I have met Class 1's who could barely tie their own shoe laces.

The class structure is just another game you play, the longer you teach the lower your number becomes, sometimes it is evident in the quality of instruction as well.

OK, you've made it clear you think there's a problem, how about you give us your ideas for a solution.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:23 am

Well mcrit, that is only my opinion and why waste time here making suggestions if the Class 1 criteria is just fine already?

On the other hand if you agree that the bar is so low to become a Class 1 that it dilutes the meaning of Class 1 then I would be happy to make some suggestions.

Cat

Slappy the Squirrel · Post by **Slappy the Squirrel** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:22 pm

Started May 13th, completed my flight test on July 14th. Worked on it 5 days a week, no more than 1 flight a day, so you could do it part time in not too much longer I imagine, it would just be tough. I had some pretty crappy weather too, but got it done in decent time. I'm by no means experienced in this matter but from talking to other people it seems to me that the most important thing is finding a good quality class 1 instructor that is available when you want them. They seem to be in great demand in some places, I lucked out I guess. Good Luck

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:02 am

Took me a little over a year while working full-time in a non-aviation job, making mortgage payments, car payments, keeping my wife happy etc etc...

On another note, I found the variances in the "give-a-shit" factor in the class 1's I dealt with seemed to be all across the chart. I suppose it had a lot to deal with instructor burn-out. Sure being a class 1 doesn't mean they're superior instructors, in some cases they're just ones that had been instructing longer. I found the ones that really didn't care anymore and were just doing it for a paycheque until that next big break came by really frustrated me as a student.

If anything, this was a good role model of what NOT to be once I got my ride done. I instructed for three years before moving on and I never once tried to be one who didnt' "give-a-shit" about my students.

Just my 2 cents worth of a rant.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:30 pm

To answer the original post, I did my rating in about 5 months while working full time.
To speak to a few of the other points in the thread. I have met a few ying yangs that were class 1s. I have also met a few ying yangs that were doctors, lawyers, teachers, soldiers and many other callings. (as an aside I've met more than a few FTU owners who were real ying yangs

) The point being that any signal has some noise.
So, overall, I'd say there isn't anything wrong with the class system of instructors. In fact, I'd say it's one of the better methods of educator training I've seen. I base this statement on 20 years of teaching such varied subjects as physics, lifeguarding, english and electronics.
I suspect that Cat may differ with me on this, so in the spirit of a healthy discussion, I'd be interested in hearing how he would change things.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:11 pm

So, overall, I'd say there isn't anything wrong with the class system of instructors. In fact, I'd say it's one of the better methods of educator training I've seen. I base this statement on 20 years of teaching such varied subjects as physics, lifeguarding, english and electronics.

Agreed the class system for determining instructor quality is a good method to use. However in the case of Canada I personally think that a Class 1 should be capable of flying something more complex than a Cessna 172.

When I held my instructor rating the Class 2 was what a Class 1 is today, there were Class 1's but I never actually met one. In todays world Class 1's are quite common and the qualifications to be a Class 1 are not all that more impressive than a Class 2 except a Class 1 must be able to teach new instructor hopefuls TC's mindset.

I suspect that Cat may differ with me on this, so in the spirit of a healthy discussion, I'd be interested in hearing how he would change things.

Well you may not agree with me because I am from a different world than a lot of todays pilots, I have this strange notion that when one reaches the top one should be able to fly most anything.

So I would not issue a Class 1 instructor rating to any pilot who was not profficient on at least the following.

Tail wheel competent.

Complex aircraft competent.

Basic aerobatics competent.

Multi engine aircraft competent.

Then with that basic set of flying skills the candidate would have to demonstrate above average skills in teaching same.

That way there would not be Class 1's who are experts on all the pablum and Voo Doo learned from reading and parroting this stuff that is so much a part of flying training, they would actually be able to fly something more complex than a Cessna 172 as a basic requirement to hold the title Class 1.

Remember Guys and Gals those are only my personal thoughts as I am not a Canadian Flight Instructor....I let that lapse in 1965, I am now a flying consultant so I do not have to be stamped in the cookie cutter mold so loved by TC and the flying training industry.

There you go, those are my thoughts.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:30 pm

Happy Holidays ..

Had this(rough) discussion with a guy the other day who was trying to tell me how highly regarded the Canadian CPL is due to our "stringent" requirements...

After I realized he was actually serious, I set about the "diversity of ability" argument, he seemed to come around... But maybe he was just humouring me....!

STL

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:48 pm

STL:

All the best for the new year.

The problem is exposure.

The new generation have nothing to base thier beliefe system on except that which is taught to them.

Some day pick the phone up and call the head of flight training in Ottawa and try and discuss the abysmal level of flight training in canada with him.

You will then understand why flight training has been so dumbed down, these kids can only know what the system teaches them.

By the way if you ever get to talk to the head of flight training get back to me and let me know if he was interested in your suggestions.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:43 pm

Tail wheel competent.

Complex aircraft competent.

Basic aerobatics competent.

Multi engine aircraft competent.

All good skills for any pilot, however none of them are crucial to a class one being able to carry out their primary function: teaching someone how to teach.
Tail dragger: Couple of points here, 1.) Most pilots can go through an entire career without needing to fly one, 2.) Should a pilot need to fly one learning how really isn't that hard 3.) One need not have any instructor rating to provide a taildragger check out 4.) Flying a taildragger has nothing to do with teaching ability.
Complex Aircraft: The class one's function is to teach someone how to teach in general, and to provide ab initio flight instruction specifically. Next to nil ab initio flight training takes place on complex a/c. Also, again, flying a complex a/c is not that difficult.
Aerobatics: These do refine your hands and feet, however, if you know what to look for, you can assess someones stick and rudder skills without watching them do a loop. Also, outside of spins, most training a/c are not aerobatic capable. Finally, aerobatic instruction is much better looked after by organizations outside the flight training system such as IAC.
Multi Engine: Ab initio flight instruction does not take place on ME a/c, nor does one need an instructor rating to teach it. And, again, one's ability to fly a ME a/c has no bearing on one's ablility to teach in general, and the ability to teach in general is what marks out a class one.

A few other misc. points. I'd agree that a good pilot should be able to fly just about anything after a check out. I've never had to much trouble getting my fellow instructors up to speed on taildraggers or multi.

Cat, you mentioned that the class 2s of your day were like the class 1s of today. Does that mean that class 2s used to teach instructor ratings? And if this is the case, what did the class 1s do ?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:40 am

Some time ago I said I was through with arguing with flight instructors about teaching flying, seems I need to make it a new years resolution as my ideas about teaching and the ideas of a lot of flying instructors are just to far apart.

My problem is I feel only the most experienced and skilled flying wise should be instructors, it just amazes me that flying can be taught by those at the bottom of the flying experience level and skills levels in commercial aviation.

A lot of you out there will probably be as angry with my comments as a new bridegroom to be, who is told his bride has gonorrhoea because commennts like that just tears at the very phyche of the persons heart.

It is my opinion that the term Class 1 loses its validity when one finds out that it only means the person who holds that position has only demonstrated that they are qualified to teach new instructors how to teach according to the TC bible. But do not have to actually demonstrate that they can fly anything more difficult than a simple nose wheel basic kiddie car trainer.

Well at least it supports my observations that flying training produces great paper work experts with minimum aeroplane handling skills.

Maybe I should offer a how to fly an airplane course for Class 1 flying instructors, as an add on to my consulting business?

Naw, I don't have the desire left to take on that task...If TC fund out I had taught one of their clones to fly the person would be drummed out of flight instruction.

Anyhow have fun you guys and gals, keep the faith and never look up.

Cat