door open in flight

Darkhorse · Post by **Darkhorse** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:25 am

anyone had this happen in a small turbine twin.... what happened and what were the effects in flight

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:22 am

not really a turbine twin, but a light single, the plane slowed down a little.

Naveed · Post by **Naveed** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:59 am

I've had it happen on a twin, got very cold very fast, middle of winter on the eastern US, no real adverse effects happened, we manage to close it but couldnt seal it so I drew the short straw and held her closed until we could land in some god forsaken town in new hamshpire and slamed er shut, haha then i was off for 2 weeks cause of a cold, ahhh good times....

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:37 pm

I was in the back of a Pa31-350 when portion of the clamshell door came open, a bit breezy and chilling.. but no adverse effects. Was even able to get it shut and locked without much of a struggle.

Doors on the beaver and 180 pop open all the time. Great way to give your pax. a thrill

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:37 pm

There's a story rolling around Northern Alberta about a guy who was flying a Navajo when the door popped open. He engaged the autopilot, went back to secure the door, and fell out. Even if it's BS, it illustrates the best way to handle an inadvertent door opening in flight...leave it alone!

If you want to check the door on, say a King Air, if it's whistling away or you suspect that the locks aren't fully engaged, be my guest. Just don't ask me to do it...my ass is staying firmly belted in at the front of the machine - the furthest point away from that insecure door. I have spoken with former captains regarding the effects of an open door on a BE20, and they said it's fairly dramatic and the drag produced will be very noticable...

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:00 pm

Pugster wrote:There's a story rolling around Northern Alberta about a guy who was flying a Navajo when the door popped open. He engaged the autopilot, went back to secure the door, and fell out. Even if it's BS, it illustrates the best way to handle an inadvertent door opening in flight...leave it alone!

That is speculation of course as the exact cause was not determined. I can't recall if they ever recovered a body, just the wreck. It was a Navair aircraft back in the early 80's around the Quesnel area.

Maybe he did the DB Cooper thing?

pilotbc69 · Post by **pilotbc69** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:21 pm

What worked for me is having auto hold the controls while you struggle. Unless you have passengers of course. If so you just say "hey...give it a try...just hold the needle steady while I step into the back....or close the fkin door please" But if there is nobody to tell and get you fired, just trim 'er nose down a bit. "bit" being learned from experience. flying for 3 hours with your ASI , VSI and speedo moving up an down in tandom along with your head being compressed and expanded like you are having your 15 minutes of fame on the X-files is not fun. But if you don't feel safe doing those sorts of maneuvers then just hang tight, she gonna be a long flight.

TTJJ · Post by **TTJJ** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:56 pm

If these guys can do this, I wouldn't be too worried about a small turbine popping a door open.

ozone · Post by **ozone** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:10 pm

I heard a story of a door opening on some kind of an airplane . The Capt went to close it and fell out but was holding on underneath. The Copilot spent half hour seaching for his body and finally returned to the airport with the Capt still underneath haha

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:13 pm

I can think of a couple captains that I wish would have gone back to check the door... but alas, no such luck

.

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:27 pm

gr8gazu wrote:
Pugster wrote:There's a story rolling around Northern Alberta about a guy who was flying a Navajo when the door popped open. He engaged the autopilot, went back to secure the door, and fell out. Even if it's BS, it illustrates the best way to handle an inadvertent door opening in flight...leave it alone!
That is speculation of course as the exact cause was not determined. I can't recall if they ever recovered a body, just the wreck. It was a Navair aircraft back in the early 80's around the Quesnel area.

Maybe he did the DB Cooper thing?

Remains were found by hunters in the fall about 10 yrs later, near 100 mile house. It was a long time ago, but if I remember it correctly, the plane overflew yxs (destination) and carried on till it ran outa gas, ended up going down near/on williston lake.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:25 pm

If you are in a pressurized airplane, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ATTEMP TO CLOSE THE DOOR. You will die for sure. That is an absolute for sure. A mechanic was troubleshooting a King Air 100. With an engine running, they pressurized the airplane "just a bit" with the pressurization test switch. Another mechanic manage to open the rear door. Realizing his mistake, he hung on to the door and it pitched him out past the wing tip. Imagine if the airplane were in flight!!!
I have no proof positive but I find it hard to believe the FAA/TC would allow an airplane to be certified where the airplane becomes unflyable if a simple thing like a door comes open. I know non-pressurized airplanes can fly quite well with the door open and most accidents are the result of pilot heroics mishandled. A big panic happens and most airplanes stall in the dumbbell turn back to the airport. Fly the friggen airplane, the door will look after itself (I think!!!)

J31 · Post by **J31** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:02 pm

Alta Flights Beech 200 blew the main air stair open one day a few years ago at about 15000 ft. No control problems mainly just communication problems with all the noise. Being a high density interior the lady sitting beside the door was a bit freaked out with all the wind, noise and panoramic view

.

The biggest problem is keeping your passengers calm as they will do their best (with good intentions) to distract the pilot to tell him what he already knows

.

wrenchturner · Post by **wrenchturner** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:28 pm

J31 wrote:Alta Flights Beech 200 blew the main air stair open on day a few years ago at about 15000 ft. No control problems mainly just communication problems with all the noise. Being a high density interior the lady sitting beside the door was a bit freaked out with all the wind, noise and panoramic view .

Not to mention, the sudden temperature decrease

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:25 am

Jeeze, what's the problem? The doors on our bird come open in flight all the time. There's even a little switch in the cockpit to make it happen. Sometimes people even fall out just like this!

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l257/ ... Drop4a.jpg

chubbee · Post by **chubbee** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:19 am

Kingair and B1900 upper door cable attachments are designed to fail easily in side loading. So that if a door blows open and detaches in flight the door would depart and not beat against the airframe held on by the door cables. Or so the scuttlebut goes...

YYC the place to be · Post by **YYC the place to be** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:40 am

highest I ever was with the door open was 15300 in a C-206 4 skydivers got out

Anyway door open in flight is easy to take care of just side slip and grab it a nd close it. No problem

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:24 am

I can't imagine what it would be like in a Pilatus. There is supposed to be so much loading on the pins that it should be impossible to move the handle when pressurized.

The lav doors close off the cabin and the cockpit. That leaves you with your pants around your ankles staring at the air stair whilst you are upon the throne.

Red Line · Post by **Red Line** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:31 pm

Even in the non-presurized BE99, the POH is very clear about NOT attempting to secure an airstair door that has become unlached.

86583 · Post by **86583** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:54 pm

the navajo was a navair airplane, it happened in the morning on the leg from williams lake to quesnel. the first indication was a small forest fire that they put a tanker on. one pilot on board, wreakage about 30 miles out of williams lake. the pilot was never found. the aircraft impacted at very high speed in a very steep dive consequently the wreck was confined to a small area..it was determined by looking at the pieces of the door that the handle on the lower door was in the full open position at impact

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:23 am

Crew door on the Navajo opened up on me once, leaving yne in a blizzard down to poplar at night.

Man was it ugly.

But all in all, the door opened just a few inches and settled there, it got cold fast, but that was it.

I would've tried to close it, but at the time I was dealing with bigger problems.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:44 am

Pasco had a door separate on the 99 on rotation. Beat the living sh-t out of the l/h stab. I was told the door remained attached to one of the cables. They changed out the stab and I would say it was bent about 15 degrees up about halfway out on that side

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:52 am

Love the stories! Never had a problem with the doors. Always check them tight before flight and make sure they stay shut throughout

I would hate to have such a mishap during flight...

Brantford Beech Boy · Post by **Brantford Beech Boy** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:30 am

Never had a door on a pressurized twin open but I've had the "Door Unlock" light a coupla times. The AFM is fairly specific. STAY AWAY FROM THE DOOR and depressurize.

I did have the crew door come open at rotation on a 99. I (F/O) was PF and the captain caught the door before it locked itself fully open on the jury strut. Continued with a visual cct to an uneventful landing. Worst part was the noise.
Not a door, but I also had an engine cowling come loose on that same 99. The 99 cowlings are upside down U shape and hinged on one side. The cowl came loose right at rotation and flopped around while we did a cct and landed. Surprisingly there was no damage and we were airborne again in about 10 minutes after mtce checked the plane out.

Beech put out a bulletin (several times I think) about these types of occurences. Basically they state that even if a door comes out or cowl is loose/gone, the airplane will continue to fly. The vast majority of accidents associated with doors/cowls opening in flight are the direct result of the Pilot not flying the airplane, essentially a form of CFIT.

cheers
BBB

TenForTwelve · Post by **TenForTwelve** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:35 am

I had the lower door open on a PA31, didn't notice any real adverse effects. Just got a little windy and a little cold. Decided not to try to close it for fear of falling out. I landed a little flat to keep the door from digging into the runway (was landing on grass).