Is it possible to be a class one flight instructor and have never flown any other aircraft besides a Cessna 172?
Or do you have to know how to operate a constant speed prop and be able to operate a retractable landing gear?
Class One Flight Instructor.
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Cat Driver
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Class One Flight Instructor.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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No it was not meant as a troll.
I am asking what the minimum qualifications are with regard to types of airplanes and systems in same is.
Not only do I not know I can't bear the thought of surfing through all the regs.
Now come on I'm sure someone out there knows the answer.
I am asking what the minimum qualifications are with regard to types of airplanes and systems in same is.
Not only do I not know I can't bear the thought of surfing through all the regs.
Now come on I'm sure someone out there knows the answer.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Thanks GPFG, I just couldn't be bothered to look it up.
So it would appear that you can be a Class 1 instructor and having never flown anything except a Cessna 172.
So it would appear that you can be a Class 1 instructor and having never flown anything except a Cessna 172.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Cat
Thr only thing extra a Class 1 rating gets you is the abilty to instruct for the instuctors rating. Therfore the Class 1 ride is all about instructor theory. TC wants to see you can instruct the Fed way. Since all the pilots you turn into instructors are going to be flying light fixed gear fixed pitch planes, this does not seem unreasinable from their POV.
I think your did not ask the bigger issue, that is TC basically does not discriminate between teaching the PPL and teaching for proffessional licenses/rating like the CPL and MEIR.
I do not feel there is any problem with a properly prepared 250 hour CPL with a brand new instructor rating; teaching the PPL course. It is not rocket science and frankly I think the attitude of the instructor is more important than his experience when we are talking insrtucting for the PPL. The CPL however is a whole different issue. I do not think the currrent TC CPL sylabus adequately prepares new CPL's for the realities of commercial flying. Further more I think the situation of having instructors teach the CPL course without themselves having one minute of line flying time in a commercial operation carrying paying passengers, makes no sense.
I still keep renewing my Class 1 instrctor rating even though I only use it occasionally, partly because I still really enjoy teaching and partly out of (perverse ? ) pride. I worked really hard to get it and be the best instructor I could be. The irony , of course, is now I have a bunch of 604,702,703,and 705 time to go with almost 2000 insrtructor hours I believe I am finally actually qualified to teach the CPL course. Of course the likelyhood of that happening is zero because nobody is going to pay me a decent wage.
Finally being a professional pilot is a state of mind and often has nothing to do with kind of license you have or the size and complexity of the aircraft you fly.......
Thr only thing extra a Class 1 rating gets you is the abilty to instruct for the instuctors rating. Therfore the Class 1 ride is all about instructor theory. TC wants to see you can instruct the Fed way. Since all the pilots you turn into instructors are going to be flying light fixed gear fixed pitch planes, this does not seem unreasinable from their POV.
I think your did not ask the bigger issue, that is TC basically does not discriminate between teaching the PPL and teaching for proffessional licenses/rating like the CPL and MEIR.
I do not feel there is any problem with a properly prepared 250 hour CPL with a brand new instructor rating; teaching the PPL course. It is not rocket science and frankly I think the attitude of the instructor is more important than his experience when we are talking insrtucting for the PPL. The CPL however is a whole different issue. I do not think the currrent TC CPL sylabus adequately prepares new CPL's for the realities of commercial flying. Further more I think the situation of having instructors teach the CPL course without themselves having one minute of line flying time in a commercial operation carrying paying passengers, makes no sense.
I still keep renewing my Class 1 instrctor rating even though I only use it occasionally, partly because I still really enjoy teaching and partly out of (perverse ? ) pride. I worked really hard to get it and be the best instructor I could be. The irony , of course, is now I have a bunch of 604,702,703,and 705 time to go with almost 2000 insrtructor hours I believe I am finally actually qualified to teach the CPL course. Of course the likelyhood of that happening is zero because nobody is going to pay me a decent wage.
Finally being a professional pilot is a state of mind and often has nothing to do with kind of license you have or the size and complexity of the aircraft you fly.......
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Cat Driver
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Big Pistons..yeh, I agree with what you say.
All I was trying to do was point out the reality of exactly what TC considers a Class 1 instructor....you are correct it means being able to teach to their mindset.
Now in my case I am not even qualified to the level of a class 4 so you are eons ahead of me.
All I was trying to do was point out the reality of exactly what TC considers a Class 1 instructor....you are correct it means being able to teach to their mindset.
Now in my case I am not even qualified to the level of a class 4 so you are eons ahead of me.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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200hr Wonder
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A class one is given to instructors who want to train instructors who in turn will train PPL or CPL. He does not need any other experience to qualify.
The bigger question is why a fresh class IV can teach IFR without ever being in cloud or why 50 hours of multi qualifies you to teach multi.
The phrase C150 captain was invented for this situation because with minimum IFR and multi he can also hold an ATPL and still not have flow anything bigger than a PA44.
CAT I think your idea of an airplane consultant might work, as we know a consultant makes a lot more than an instructor.
The bigger question is why a fresh class IV can teach IFR without ever being in cloud or why 50 hours of multi qualifies you to teach multi.
The phrase C150 captain was invented for this situation because with minimum IFR and multi he can also hold an ATPL and still not have flow anything bigger than a PA44.
CAT I think your idea of an airplane consultant might work, as we know a consultant makes a lot more than an instructor.
I wish I could spell
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Cat Driver
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Sure it will work, just think of all the expenses I will save not having to deal with TC on any level." CAT I think your idea of an airplane consultant might work, as we know a consultant makes a lot more than an instructor. "
And instructing can pay quite well if you get out of the puppy mill mentality that is required when teaching under TC's iron fist.
Ab-initio instruction is slavery wage wise.
Teaching flying can be quite rewarding if you can offer something that people will be happy to pay for.
If a class 4 flys 4 hours in a day what would they make? $ 80.00 maximum?
If I instruct 4 hours in a day I make $1500.00 Canadian plus all my expenses are paid so I clear the $1500.00.
Yes, instructing can be half decent pay.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I hear ya Cat.
This is something that always bugged me as a student. I came out of the bush where doing "Northern VFR" was a daily occurance. I decided to bite the bullet and go down south and finally get my group 1 so that I don't have any more excuse to write my ATPL's.
The instructor I had never really flown any actual IFR (just student under the hood in perfect VFR), and hadn't been any further away from his home airport than the 300 Nm cross country requirement for his commercial (once again in perfect VFR). I tell you, it was certainly an exercise in biting my tongue on numerous occasions. Being that he was the only guy with a current instrument rating, I had to be patient. I'm not saying that his lack of experience made him a poor instructor; it's just that he really didn't have to pretend that he had zillions of hours flying the friggin' space shuttle through hurricanes.
Anyway, it is true that a Class 1 can have only C172 time in his logbook and be a legal Class 1. As well, someone can teach IFR and have never been actual IFR, and in nothing more complex than a Piper Apache.
This is something that always bugged me as a student. I came out of the bush where doing "Northern VFR" was a daily occurance. I decided to bite the bullet and go down south and finally get my group 1 so that I don't have any more excuse to write my ATPL's.
The instructor I had never really flown any actual IFR (just student under the hood in perfect VFR), and hadn't been any further away from his home airport than the 300 Nm cross country requirement for his commercial (once again in perfect VFR). I tell you, it was certainly an exercise in biting my tongue on numerous occasions. Being that he was the only guy with a current instrument rating, I had to be patient. I'm not saying that his lack of experience made him a poor instructor; it's just that he really didn't have to pretend that he had zillions of hours flying the friggin' space shuttle through hurricanes.
Anyway, it is true that a Class 1 can have only C172 time in his logbook and be a legal Class 1. As well, someone can teach IFR and have never been actual IFR, and in nothing more complex than a Piper Apache.
Cat.
Given that you can obtain a class one having flown nothing but a C172, What is your point?
Have you a problem with this? a better practical idea? do you feel this is not acceptable to teach students? It is hard to think, as one poster suggested , that this is not a troll, as you have gotten your answer and gone no where with it. It seems you are just out to bash instructors. Perhaps if we paid instructors a decent living wage we would get more experienced, professional career instructors. I for one, have every intention of instructing when they kick my old carcess out of the plane at age 60. Will I work for starvation wages 84 hours a week. No. I think what we should be advocating is instructing as a career (or second career, as many of the helicopter pilots do), and demanding a decent work schedule and wage. But I doubt that will ever happen as long as pilots view instructing as a time builder for their real career.
And as to Doc's comment about IFR in an Apache. It has been some years since I did that but I dont recall anything magic about the apache. Had the old artifical horizon, hockey puck DG, and switches all over the place if I remember correctly. No Anti-ice or de-ice except pitot heat, and carborated engines. Now if my memory is not to far off the mark why would you suggest this to anyone? I for one, like todays bells and whistles, and, quite frankly, have come to consider GPS almost an MEL item. Maybe it makes a person more of a pilot to have struggled with what we had to fly 40 years ago. Or maybe some of us old guys would just like to think that is so.
Given that you can obtain a class one having flown nothing but a C172, What is your point?
Have you a problem with this? a better practical idea? do you feel this is not acceptable to teach students? It is hard to think, as one poster suggested , that this is not a troll, as you have gotten your answer and gone no where with it. It seems you are just out to bash instructors. Perhaps if we paid instructors a decent living wage we would get more experienced, professional career instructors. I for one, have every intention of instructing when they kick my old carcess out of the plane at age 60. Will I work for starvation wages 84 hours a week. No. I think what we should be advocating is instructing as a career (or second career, as many of the helicopter pilots do), and demanding a decent work schedule and wage. But I doubt that will ever happen as long as pilots view instructing as a time builder for their real career.
And as to Doc's comment about IFR in an Apache. It has been some years since I did that but I dont recall anything magic about the apache. Had the old artifical horizon, hockey puck DG, and switches all over the place if I remember correctly. No Anti-ice or de-ice except pitot heat, and carborated engines. Now if my memory is not to far off the mark why would you suggest this to anyone? I for one, like todays bells and whistles, and, quite frankly, have come to consider GPS almost an MEL item. Maybe it makes a person more of a pilot to have struggled with what we had to fly 40 years ago. Or maybe some of us old guys would just like to think that is so.
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Cat Driver
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Trey:
Read my discussion with mcrit in the " to all my instructor friends. " to save me typing twice.
There will never be any change in pay for instructors as long as the system remains as it is.
What you have to remember is I personally couldn't care less what the industry does as I have no intention of working in it, as to using modern equipment I couldn't argee with you more, but how many schools have modern equipment?
I am putting modern equipment in my Cub on floats, I wouldn't even think of putting 1930's technology stuff in it.
My primary equipment will be a Dynon with all the flight and engine information in it.
I am not bashing instructors, I am pointing out that the system is to antiquated and the qualifications to be a Class 1 are to low." Cat.
Given that you can obtain a class one having flown nothing but a C172, What is your point?
Have you a problem with this? a better practical idea? do you feel this is not acceptable to teach students? It is hard to think, as one poster suggested , that this is not a troll, as you have gotten your answer and gone no where with it. It seems you are just out to bash instructors. Perhaps if we paid instructors a decent living wage we would get more experienced, professional career instructors. "
Read my discussion with mcrit in the " to all my instructor friends. " to save me typing twice.
There will never be any change in pay for instructors as long as the system remains as it is.
What you have to remember is I personally couldn't care less what the industry does as I have no intention of working in it, as to using modern equipment I couldn't argee with you more, but how many schools have modern equipment?
I am putting modern equipment in my Cub on floats, I wouldn't even think of putting 1930's technology stuff in it.
My primary equipment will be a Dynon with all the flight and engine information in it.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Doc:
There are several avenues an old dog can walk down nearing the end of their career.
When flying for someone else becomes just a job that takes up far to much of your energy just keeping up with all the B.S. that is required to fly you will become more and more dissatisfied with life.
There comes a time when one should consider a change, you can just quit flying and find another type of work.
Or you can quit flying and quit working period, however to do that requires a retirement plan that has enough in it to live a comfortable life.
I have chosen to keep flying and do something that I enjoy and does not rule my life 24/7.
So I'm building two Cubs, one on floats and a Clipped Wing Aerobatic Cub.
These two airplanes can be used to teach most everything a new pilot needs to get their first job.
Can I make enough to justify quitting a good paying flying position?
Well the bottom line is I do not need any support system including an OC and the required AMO, not to mention the agrivation and cost of operating a company.
So if I charge $150.00 per hour for my consulting including the airplane that is affordable to young people just learning the skills needed to be employable.
I am the builder, therefore can do all my own maintenance, so the hourly operating cost will be about $50.00.
Hell $100.00 per hour for my time is not all that bad is it?
Cat
There are several avenues an old dog can walk down nearing the end of their career.
When flying for someone else becomes just a job that takes up far to much of your energy just keeping up with all the B.S. that is required to fly you will become more and more dissatisfied with life.
There comes a time when one should consider a change, you can just quit flying and find another type of work.
Or you can quit flying and quit working period, however to do that requires a retirement plan that has enough in it to live a comfortable life.
I have chosen to keep flying and do something that I enjoy and does not rule my life 24/7.
So I'm building two Cubs, one on floats and a Clipped Wing Aerobatic Cub.
These two airplanes can be used to teach most everything a new pilot needs to get their first job.
Can I make enough to justify quitting a good paying flying position?
Well the bottom line is I do not need any support system including an OC and the required AMO, not to mention the agrivation and cost of operating a company.
So if I charge $150.00 per hour for my consulting including the airplane that is affordable to young people just learning the skills needed to be employable.
I am the builder, therefore can do all my own maintenance, so the hourly operating cost will be about $50.00.
Hell $100.00 per hour for my time is not all that bad is it?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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bob sacamano
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I'm not sure if I have your business plan right.
If you'll be consulting, then your customers must be already licenced, and looking for some extra specialized training.
The majority would have already spent over 30K on their licence, so they're already under in debts.
Secondly, what would some flying in a cub do to enhance a 200hr wonder's resume, if let's say they are looking for work in small charter company?
Would your business be geared towards students and enhancing their resume, or to the leisure pilot who wants that extra kick from an experienced pilot rather than from a class 4 instructor.
If you'll be consulting, then your customers must be already licenced, and looking for some extra specialized training.
The majority would have already spent over 30K on their licence, so they're already under in debts.
Secondly, what would some flying in a cub do to enhance a 200hr wonder's resume, if let's say they are looking for work in small charter company?
Would your business be geared towards students and enhancing their resume, or to the leisure pilot who wants that extra kick from an experienced pilot rather than from a class 4 instructor.
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sky's the limit
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Well,
If I were the CP of ANY outfit playing with short strips, mountain work, or off-strip stuff - LOTS. It would put that person way out in front of the rest of the 200hr crowd, and considerably ahead of the 1000hr fair weather circuit flier, otherwise know as a flight instructor.
But hey, what do I know?
STL
If I were the CP of ANY outfit playing with short strips, mountain work, or off-strip stuff - LOTS. It would put that person way out in front of the rest of the 200hr crowd, and considerably ahead of the 1000hr fair weather circuit flier, otherwise know as a flight instructor.
But hey, what do I know?
STL
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Cat Driver
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" I'm not sure if I have your business plan right.
It is not a business plan, it is a retirement hobby.
Yes.If you'll be consulting, then your customers must be already licenced, and looking for some extra specialized training.
Basically I am offering training for those who wish to fly in the bush.The majority would have already spent over 30K on their licence, so they're already under in debts.
Secondly, what would some flying in a cub do to enhance a 200hr wonder's resume, if let's say they are looking for work in small charter company?
A 200 hour wonder is exactly what I am thinking of, and if they want to fly in the bush I can teach them everyting they need to know in a Cub.
I have no intrest in doing training in twins or doing any IFR training for the simple reason the equipment is out of my price range.
It matters not to me why they would want to do some training as long as they have the desire to become better pilots.Would your business be geared towards students and enhancing their resume, or to the leisure pilot who wants that extra kick from an experienced pilot rather than from a class 4 instructor.
If I never do even one hour of training I really don't care, I will still have the Cub sitting on a ramp beside my sail boat and Wilbur and I can just fu.k around with it when ever we feel like it.
Here is Wilbur, he loves aerobatics and is a true aviator.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ ... 010671.jpg
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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bob sacamano
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I've done the CP thing, and I've seen some c.v.'s that had specialty training on it. didn't mean much to me, these days you have lots of outfits that offer these sort of things.sky's the limit wrote:Well,
If I were the CP of ANY outfit playing with short strips, mountain work, or off-strip stuff - LOTS. It would put that person way out in front of the rest of the 200hr crowd, and considerably ahead of the 1000hr fair weather circuit flier, otherwise know as a flight instructor.
But hey, what do I know?
STL
I'm not saying that cat's training is on the same level as the outfits out there, but what it comes down to is most bush pilots have gotten work with the bare minimum training that's offered at FTU's around the country.
Good luck with it, since it's just a hobby and no more, I'd do the same if I were in your (cat) position.
