Katey's Firearms Facts

[mozart]

Apologies , it is section 91 of the criminal code which is brought about by the firearms act

Unauthorized possession of firearm
91. (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a firearm, unless the person is the holder of
(a) a licence under which the person may possess it; and
(b) a registration certificate for the firearm.

[mellow_pilot]

The amount of ignorance of simple comcepts here is astounding. Let's take the whole, south has the power thing...

A riding with a small population (like a norther riding for example) has more power per vote than one with a large population. It's supposed to be about 100k people per riding= 1 MP. In ridings where there are only 50 000 people, they don't send half an MP, they still send 1 MP per riding. So in this example the 'northern riding' has twice the voting power of the southern one. Very simple concept, lost on some people here. Large population doesn't mean more power. It's like arguing with children who don't understand simple math.

The use of hyperbole and canned statments which show no thought, but rather a mild brainwashing lead me to believe that this thread is really not worth investing time in. I'm going to let the idiots sit in the dark, when you figure out which way to turn the light bulb, let me know.

[Dust Devil]

The amount of ignorance of simple comcepts here is astounding. Let's take the whole, south has the power thing...

A riding with a small population (like a norther riding for example) has more power per vote than one with a large population. It's supposed to be about 100k people per riding= 1 MP. In ridings where there are only 50 000 people, they don't send half an MP, they still send 1 MP per riding. So in this example the 'northern riding' has twice the voting power of the southern one. Very simple concept, lost on some people here. Large population doesn't mean more power. It's like arguing with children who don't understand simple math.

The use of hyperbole and canned statments which show no thought, but rather a mild brainwashing lead me to believe that this thread is really not worth investing time in. I'm going to let the idiots sit in the dark, when you figure out which way to turn the light bulb, let me know.

So explain why senate representation is the way it is?

[NWONT]

Here's a simple concept for you mellow-pilot. When the Liberals wanted to push this nonsense through it took very little to convince the majority ( I'm going to stop saying all the southerners, cause some still have the ability to see through the lies) that registering hunting rifles will end gun violence in the cities. No one up here has believed that crap for a second. We in the north sent our elected official, Bob Nault, to carry our message to Ottawa and vote NO!!! to passing this law. He returned shortly with Jean Chreitien's boot mark clearly visible on the back of his pants. He said he was hauled in the back room and informed that if he didn't vote the party line he would spend eternity on the back bench. This is true and that would have happened. So he did as he was told. I see no point in electing and paying top wages ( which go higher everytime they vote themselves another raise) to someone who is not allowed to speak on our behalf. One solution that has come up is a border or dividing line somewhere around Sudbury where north of that, issues that effect only the people that live in the area will be voted on only by those people. The governing body would reside in Thunder Bay. This province is to large and the range and scope of the population can't be understood by urban dwellers. There is a short video of Jean with his fox hat that demonstrates this concept. Maybe somebody could post it here?

[Wilbur]

Your analysis Mellow is a little simplistic. The reality is that urban ridings form voting blocks. A city of a million people may divide into about 10 different ridings, but on many issues there is no difference in the views of those constituents, and their 10 MPs will be voting as a block. They will always dictate the political wind. Then add our over-arching party system, and the whips will ensure all party MPs vote in a manner that protects that big city voting block. Rural ridings are expendable and rarely have anyone addressing their concerns or protecting their interests.
The Liberals have long recognized this simple fact and have held power so often by ensuring they appeal to the urban voters. Rarely, if ever, have they given a second thought to rural Canada.

The gun registry accomplishes nothing other than buying votes from the families and friends of those it employs, and from the uninformed lefty urbanites falsely believing it makes them safe from gun crime. The fact it is a pain in ass to rural Canadians who use guns as tools of day to day life is of no consequence.

[onceacop]

Hey Mellow how old are you? I'm curious. It says in your profile under Location: "School, apperently forever".

When I'm flying over the bush in your country and my charts show wilderness from the top to bottom I just gotta shake my head that a country with so much unsettled and sparsley populated areas has the rigid gun policy that you do. From the outside looking in, I would have to think a minority sized geographical region makes the laws which burden those living elsewhere across a broad and huge region. South sounds like a significant word to me in this debate.

Since I can remember, there were always guns and ammo around the house which I grew up in. I was taught not to touch and trained what they were used for as I got older. In 7th and 8th grade I would leave school on Friday early to join my father for a hunting weekend. It was not
uncommon for me to drop off a long gun at the principals office with my other gear. That was in Bemidji Minnesota. Not a small town. Maybe 11000. Times have changed. Soceity is to blame not the gun.

Sometimes I would like to take a red hot branding iron that says "guns don't kill-people kill", and place my mark on those folks that just don't get it. By the way, I'm 40 years old.

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.1 ... -Print.pdf

[xsbank]

I read through that site and it is interesting reading, althogh some of hi assertions contradict or are just plain wrong: "...SUVs are arguably safer than cars..." Arguably how? And a couple of times he used 2-year rates and compared one year rates (in England).

Generally, I agree with him, but the onus is on accuracy when you are trying to convince the majority of a minority position, and he misses a bit.

I found the violent crime-rate comparison to the three prairie provinces to their cross-border states to be interesting (60% higher in Canada) and the assertion that violent crime rate in Canada is double the US rate. That one I will research myself.

I know for a fact that when I was in Oklahoma City at FlightSafety a few years ago, the locals were marvelling that the crime-rate had plummeted (hearsay?) after the concealed-carry law was introduced. There was certainly no more road rage!

[onceacop]

[quote="xsbank"]
I found the violent crime-rate comparison to the three prairie provinces to their cross-border states to be interesting (60% higher in Canada) and the assertion that violent crime rate in Canada is double the US rate. That one I will research myself.


If true I wouldn't be a bit suprised. I would consider northern Montana vehicles and occupants more likely armed than not. Not a place for the criminal. On a side note, these very rural people or more likely to help a stranger in need than those in a congested city. Amazing that this evil gun culture and good honest Christian brotherly love thrive together.

[NWONT]

Hey onceacop, If this historic court case goes wrong, you can just bet it won't be long until some politition in the US is going to try to think it could be pushed through in the states also. So if any gun clubs or individuals wish to become involved and donate to the cause they are welcome. As you can see many Canadians are slow to reach for their check books and court time costs money. Just to give you an example of how this can happen I'll offer this.
As mellow-pilot or was it shimmydampner said "you obviously don't know a damn thing about the people of southern Ontario" These words are very true. I go to Toronto once a year against my will to attend flightsafety and I can't get out of there fast enough. On one trip it seems the men where all up in arms because they wanted to marry other dudes. Can you believe it!!! They even had a parade, half the city was marching in it, that vision will be burned into my retinas forever. Up in this part of the country we'd hoist them boys up in a tree. Now here comes the kicker. After the dust settled and a couple of them did get married, next thing you know all the funny boys from the USA are at the border wanting marraige licences. So I'm sure you can see why we all have to get together and nip this sort of thing in the bud. At times I have seen videos on the computer with women from southern Ontario carrying on with each other. Can you blame them? All the men are swinging hand in hand down Younge Street. With names like shimmy and mellow, you can just see trouble brewing. Always remember, God didn't make all men equal, Smith and Wesson did.

[mozart]

It was Hitler that said, "Make the lie big enough and they will all believe it."
Thats the Liberal phylosophy for dealing with highly populated urban centers. Humans are a herd animal, they don't want to appear different than the mainstream, and the liberal media creates the Toronto mainstream. Even now, if Paul Martin told Toronto that it was fashionable to spend the day with one finger up your ass, they would start producing pants with a hole in the back.

[shimmydampner]

Hey NWONT, you redneck hick, how about you just let the yanks tend to their numerous social problems and leave them out of ours. While they are experienced with meddling in the affairs of other countries, I think we can handle this one.
You seem to like singling me out, obviously because I'm not letting you get away with baseless statements about people and places you've never had any more than a couple days of contact with. I'm not sure if you're just too dense or too busy humping your cousin to notice that on the general issue of guns, I'm on your side. Said it before and I guess I have to say it again for the remedial students like yourself, I am pro guns. I may disagree with some of your and others justifications for owning them, but bottom line is I do not think guns are bad or the cause of crime or anything like that. I don't know how much more I can spell it out for you, so read this slowly, get cousin Joleen to come up for air and 'splain it to ya because I don't want to have to say it again.
Now, on about southern Ontario again. Here's a little lesson for the ignorant out there (that's you!). Southern Ontario is mostly.........hold on tight for this revelation...........a rural place! "Oh my god!" you say, "that can't be! That's where Toronto is and all of southern Ontario is just a big ugly extension of Toronto!" Well, that's a common misconception among ignorant pricks, but the reality of the situation is that the majority of southern Ontario is not consumed by urban sprawl, but instead, small family farms operated by small town, down-to-earth, good country folk. Why, plenty of those small town country folk even own guns and are just as upset as you about the gun registry. Now, I realize this revelation may leave you dumbfounded, but I tried to warn you about running your mouth about people and places you don't know shit about.
Now why'd you have to go and bring up homosexuals in a debate about guns? You're not fooling anyone, it's obvious you're just using this debate as an open forum to air all your grievances about what you percieve southern Ontario to be like. You even admit that you know nothing about it, yet you continue to display extreme ignorance and arrogance by continuing to prattle on as if you're completely familiar with the way of life down there. Yes, Toronto has a gay pride parade, same as major cities in the states. Yes, there are gay people in southern Ontario, just as there are gay people in NWONT and Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and everywhere else in this country and continent for that matter. The fact that you admit to wanting to string them up sadly isn't all that surprising after reading all your other posts. Many people (especially rednecks) fear what they don't understand, and you've made it crystal clear that you don't understand much and are essentially a frightened little boy. I don't want to watch a gay pride parade anymore than you do, so instead of fantasizing about "hoisting them up in trees" I just choose not to watch. I've met gays and lesbians before and other than sexual preference (not that I can blame the lesbians, if I were a woman, I'd only wanna do chicks too) they were all just normal people. They went to work, contributed to society, volunteered their time to charity and generally tried to be good human beings. I learned quickly not to judge them by what (or should I say who) they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. I suppose now you'll want to mock me more now for not being a biggot like yourself, especially since you were desperate enough to grasp at straws and try to link my screen name with homosexuality even though I took the name from an aircraft part. Whatever. You can just refer to my post above concerning your mockery of my avatar. As for mellow pilot, yeah, there's a gay name...hmm....let's see, what does mellow mean........straight from dictionary.com: "Having the gentleness, wisdom, or tolerance often characteristic of maturity." Good idea, lets make fun of someone for that! Who would want to be gentle, wise, tolerant and mature. Obviously not you.

Always remember, God didn't make all men equal, Smith and Wesson did.

Thank you so much for including that in your post because it completely proves a major point of mine. People like you have some condition of feeling very inferior to others and are frightened by that inferiority. You admit exactly that with this statement. You feel inferior and the only way you can feel equal is with a gun in your hand. It's OK, though, you don't need a gun to feel good about yourself. Probably the best thing you could try to boost your self confidence would be dating outside the family. Joleen will understand.

Mmmmkay, schools out.

[spooky]

Any of you southern folks wondering why the northern attitude toward you?
Let me try to explain.
You have the majority voting power and how do you use it. You elect a bunch of crooks, the Canadian Mob I call them, who ripped off 100 million dollars and after the news is out, you vote them in again down south.
You seem to be geographically retarded. South of Sudbury is only about 15% of the province. The other 85% is stuck with your stupid choices.
Don't believe the percentages, look on a globe. Look very hard and you might see the Golden Anthill. Don't try a map. Maps made in Toronto are only good for arsewipe.
So you are paranoid about guns. Up north they're necessary. We should have regional government and that would solve the problem.
Fine by me if you want to ban guns down there. Fine by the criminals also, they like you to disarm their victims. Criminals don't give a shit about bans. They get all the guns they want from the USA.
Should also ban sharp objects down south. Dangerous in the hands of babies and southern politicians.

[shimmydampner]

Okay don't even start this I'm a northern Ontario tough guy bullshit with me because I'd be willing to bet my next month's paycheck that I've spent more time in the last 6 years further north than you've spent in your entire life. I'm sure your moose hunting trips to Atikokan were pretty rough and tumble but just because you live north of Superior doesn't mean you've seen much.

You seem to be geographically retarded. South of Sudbury is only about 15% of the province. The other 85% is stuck with your stupid choices.

You seem to be mathematically retarded. Yes geographically 85% is stuck with the south's choices, but since rocks and trees don't get a vote and normally aren't concerned with politics, population is more appropriate to this discussion and I've already pointed out that the split is roughly 93.6% in the south and (stay with me, this is tough math) 6.4% in the north.

Don't believe the percentages, look on a globe. Look very hard and you might see the Golden Anthill. Don't try a map. Maps made in Toronto are only good for arsewipe.

Very intelligent response. I suppose the billions of dollars made in Toronto and contributed to the province's and country's economy are also, only good for arsewipe.

So you are paranoid about guns. Up north they're necessary. We should have regional government and that would solve the problem.

You started out with a real stupid statement and then saved yourself by saying the first intelligent thing you've come up with. First of all, up north guns are certainly not necessary. Handy, yes. Necessary, no. But you are right about regional government for the north. The two places are just too different. And besides, it would be so nice to shut up the whiners.

[Expat]

I have seen on this thread pretty funny arguments. In rural ares, they need guns because there is no one, and in the city, they need guns because there are a lot of criminal with guns...
I have been in Afghanistan for more than two years, without any kind of weapons, and somehow I feel better and safer than in a large north American city. That is the people that are crazy!
Here Muslims go to bed early and do not drink in public. There is no violence in the street, like any downtown areas in NA.
For a country that is at war, it is very comforting to see. I get a good hazard allowance, and the cost of living is lower than anywhere in Canada! So far, returning to the far west is not a viable option...

[niss]

I suggest that some of you guys up there go to school and learn how democracy works. It sounds to me like you are blambing the fact that more people live in southern ontario on the people who live in southern ontario. You are complaining that the majority of the people have the power in numbers?

So basically you want the minority (population of ontario living in the north) to controll the majority (population of ontario living in the south).

[Jimmy Mack]

I suggest that some of you guys up there go to school and learn how democracy works. It sounds to me like you are blambing the fact that more people live in southern ontario on the people who live in southern ontario.

Hey niss, why don't you go to school and learn how to spell?

That's right, I am Constable Mack of the grammar-fucking-police.

[NWONT]

Wow, you sure got a temper there shimmydampner. Now you know I put that last post in just to see you spinning around like the tasmanian devil. Boy, did it ever work. I was just kidding you with that one and you know it. For the record I've spent my time flying in the arctic, also the middle east, the caribbean and a lot of time in the USA. Before you start meanmouthing the US, try to remember that whenever there is a flood, famine, Tsunami or any disaster anywhere in the world, the phone is ringing in the white house begging for help. More times than not , help is soon on its way. No country in the world spends more of its tax dollars and sacrifices more of its fighting people helping others than the US. And without a doubt mistakes have been made. Hindsite is always 20/20. I've had the pleasure and honor to work with more rednecks like myself from the Rio Grande to the Canadian border and inbetween. The majority of these people make their living off the land one way or another. They may be rednecks and would take no offence to be called that. They would be the first to extend the hand of friendship and would break their back to help a stranger, then give you the shirt off it. So when you call someone a redneck make sure you smile. All rednecks including myself ask nothing more than to be allowed to live our lives without interferance from a pack of crooked, slimy polititions and the mind contolled sheep from the GTA. Also would you please lay off that crock of bullshit about the south paying the expenses of the north. You people have been repeating that crap so long your starting to believe it youself. If it wasn't for the paper mills, lumber mills, mines, oil reserves,cattle,grain fields and a hundred other natural resource items, Toronto would be a slum or ghost town. I work with US citizens enough that I tend to forget there is a border between us, as we all share a love of the great outdoors. The purpose of this thread was to discuss a law abiding citizen being destroyed by a tyrannical and oppressive government pushing through laws that are against our constitution. Not to listen to some spaceman wannabe with his panties in a knot.

[North Shore]

niss wrote:
I suggest that some of you guys up there go to school and learn how democracy works. It sounds to me like you are blambing the fact that more people live in southern ontario on the people who live in southern ontario.


Hey niss, why don't you go to school and learn how to spell?

That's right, I am Constable Mack of the grammar-fucking-police.

Errr, wouldn't that be syntax-fucking-police?

[Hedley]

Suggestion: if you don't like guns, don't have one.

There. Is everybody happy now?

[Expat]

Suggestion: if you don't like guns, don't have one.

There. Is everybody happy now?

I like Kalashnikov!

[mellow_pilot]

No country in the world spends more of its tax dollars and sacrifices more of its fighting people helping others than the US.

You mean like they helped Iraq, or like they helped Somalia?

See the thing is, you're so wrapped up in self-pity and loathing anything that doesn't agree with your narrow view that you can't even see when people agree with you. Shimmy and I both think that the registry is retarded. It's not up for argument. When he and I differ with you is that we understand that geography is not supposed to determine representation in the House of Commons. By virtue of the fact the population distribution is affected by geography, sparsly settled areas actually have a mathmatical advantage in voting. To put it simply, your vote counts for more. Now, there are more people in the GTA than northern Ontario, but if representation were the same for both populations (on a per person basis) they would have almost 1.5-2 times the MPs they have now.

Senate is another matter, and I agree with DD that it is an unfair system. There should really be an elected Senate, but that's just one more point where we agree, which probably won't be recognised because then the whining would have to stop.

The only thing I really had a problem with at the start of this whole mess of a thread, was the courageous freedom fighter, struggling for equality and the rights of gun owners, valiantly using his daughter as a pawn in his battle for public sympathy. I don't like propaganda and manipulation, whether it be from the government or private citizens. He's your hero, I think he's little better than the Mullahs who send kids to blow themselves up. Different scale, same concept: don't let people think for themselves.

If you simply presented the facts of the gun registry to a reasonable person, there would be little else for them to conclude than the obvious; it is a waste of their money. The problem is that the argument is tainted by soap-box jockeys such as yourself who do an excellent job of alienating people from your cause. Add to that the fact that the media in our country (and around the world for that matter) has more power over most people's decisions than their own grey matter, and we have the rediculous situation that we have all come to know and love.

Perhaps I could take you more seriously if most of your posts weren't filled with rhetoric I've seen a couple dozen times over from crack-pots who look like they just walked out of a bombshelter they built in thier backyard. The thing is, little of what you have presented is from your own mind, it all seems repeated and re-hashed. Just the anger of a person who's been told all their life that their problem are caused by someone else. It's easy to blame someone else for your misery, much less simple to be happy with what you have.

I've lived in northern Ontario, it's beautiful country. Lots of lakes and rivers, still pure enough to drink from, fish galore. You can camp just about anywhere. Rocks to climb, animals to hunt, much paddling to be had. It's a virtual paradise, and yet you're only happy if you can tell everyone how hard-done by you are...

Let me ask this, has registering your gun stopped you from using it? I highly doubt it. It's an inconvinience, much like the TC medical fee, annoying, but won't stop me from flying. Is it just? No. Is it life altering? No. Has anyone come to your door, demanded your weapon and sent you to work in a labour camp? Some how I doubt it. No one in southern Ontario gives 2 shits about you. Really, they don't stay up at night thinking, how can I @#$! over NWONT tomorrow. Really, they don't care what you do!! Go have fun, it won't bother them one bit, they probably won't even notice you're not bitching anymore.

So do me a favour, go outside, take a deep breathe and thank your lucky stars that the air tastes so fresh. Be happy that you don't live in the south, they won't mind.

[xsbank]

Onceacop, I went on the Stats Canada site and found this little gem. After disclaimers about methodoly differences, this is what I found. Basically, your gun site is just wrong, except there could be an argument for lowering the rate of break and enter in Canada if we all had guns at home. Then again, maybe the break and enter crowd would just steal them!

"Consistent with previous years, police-reported crime data show
that the United States had much higher rates of violent crimes, while
Canada generally had slightly higher levels of property crimes. In
2004, the rate of homicide in the U.S. nearly tripled the rate recorded
in Canada. There were 5.5 homicides per 100,000 population in the
United States, compared to 2.0 homicides per 100,000 in Canada.
The difference in rates was slightly less pronounced for the other
violent crimes. The U.S. recorded a rate of aggravated assault 85%
greater than Canada and a rate of robbery that was 59% higher.
Canadians were more likely than Americans to be victims of two of the
three types of comparable property crimes. The Canadian break and
enter rate of 863 break and enters per 100,000 population was 18%
higher than the American break and enter rate of 730 per 100,000.
Similarly, the rate of motor vehicle thefts was 26% greater in Canada
than in the U.S. Other thefts, which in Canada includes thefts over and
under $5,000, was 9% lower compared to the rates in the U.S."

[mozart]

I think what the ridings in the north want is for the MP's of those ridings to be able to have some control over what goes on there. How many ridings are there in toronto, ninety some? Northern ridings don't matter, only getting liberals in power matters. Northern constituents don't have representation because their MPs must tow the party line.
I remember about 5 to 10 years ago 17 or 20 people died on the 401 driving into fog at high speed. The people screamed for more lanes and the government went right in to service and did a study. The southerners are able to milk the government for whatever they want. Even if they are retarded enough to drive into fog at 120 kmh, they can demand money.
East of Kenora the TransCAnada hwy killed over thirty people in one winter and our liberal MP didn't even mention it. Carnage, as always, continues. Are we represented, not in the least.
So when we tell our Liberal MP to vote our wishes in the House of Commons and he votes on the gun law according to the brainwash the liberal media has done on the sheep in toronto, we resent it. Yes we are a liberal riding, but only because the boundries were set up by the liberals so that the government funded northern aboriginal reserves can control the outcome of an election. Further resentment. All about Liberals and Control, Hitler would have been proud.
But their is a plus side. Because the political bullshit is so profound, even our youth can detect it. Being frustrated leads to creating solutions. Up here, thirteen year old girls can see the difference between governing a country and people control. Good for Katie, she is our future.

[niss]

Up here, thirteen year old girls can see the difference between governing a country and people control. Good for Katie, she is our future.

Actually it would seem that thirteen year old girls are smart enough to know who feeds and cloths them, but not neccesarily smart enough to think for themselves.

While Southern Ontario (by numbers alone) is in control of what goes on in Ontario, we dont choose who represents northern ontario....you guys do.

If you dont like the fact that your liberal mps didnt speak up about the highway or the gun registration, its not our fucking problem....you guys elected him. Quit blaming everyone else for your problems. You elected your MPs, if you have a problem with the caucus he/she represents don't vote for them again. If the mp you voted for didnt win and you have a lib instead of a conservative. I really really dont give a @#$!. Do you think I am happy about a conservative government?

[spooky]

Bruce Montague has been charged with illegal firearms possession.
He's a gunsmith, it's logical that he had firearms in his shop.
And most weren't his, but he was in possession of them.
He toured down south and urged the police to charge him.
They didn't then. They waited until he was back in Dryden at a gun show and arrested him. Then his wife was left in possession and they charged her. Then they seized his house and so the business is kaput.
This is also Katey's home and is it any wonder that she makes these videos.
Something to ponder. If you leave your wife at home with the gun cabinet keys when you leave for work, she is in possession of the guns.
If she doesn't have a PAL or equivalent, she can be charged.
One fellow in his 70s forgot to renew his licence in time, the government ordered his guns seized. Only way to get them back is to take a firearms course. He was an infantryman in Korea, has more training and experience than anyone teaching the courses. He donated the firearms to the gun club.
There are many more interesting stories. If interested contact bruce@brucemontague.ca, or bmontague@drytel.net. Don't delay, he may be in jail soon.
Nope, he is not related to me and I only met him briefly a couple of times.