In light of the many debates over tool quality, many of which center around durability and warranty service quality, I ask that anyone who has experience with tools breaking post here about the circumstances. My only condition is, I would like everyone posting to honestly tell us if they were using the tool in the intended manner.
I am most interested in info on brands like mastercraft and craftsman, although I'd like to hear about the top of the line snap-on, gray, etc.
Robert
By the way, I'm a student at the Nova Scotia Community College AME program, soon to be an apprentice.
Tool longevity.
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Sideblinder
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Troubleshot
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As most of the guys will tell you brands like Snap-on and Mac are not entirely worth the 300% price difference in most cases, Canadian Tire's "professional" line is pretty good and the warrenty is just as good as Snap-on's (if not better).
Sears/Craftsman is probably your best bang for the buck as far as quality vs. price and the warrenty again is lifetime so no worries.
12 point is hard to come by at Crappy Tire and Sears Canada so you will need to research for other options...start here !! http://www.handsontools.com/ they are an american company but will ship to Canada and will mark whatever you want on the customs slip for a price so you will not have to pay much duty...PLUS the tools are high quality with an absolutly great prices. The customer service is good to boot !! I bought all my sockets and ratches from them and I haven't had one hiccup.
I bought a 8 piece screw driver set (ratching included) from snap-on, a pair of duckbills, lockwire pliers(reversible, wave jaws), long handled side cutters, and snap-ring pliers. The rest from sears or crappy tire.
Also, everytime I break a Snap-on tool I get 50 questions on how I broke it and "it's going to be a couple of week before I get you a new one" and so on... so keep that in mind, Canadian Tire and Sears just point you to a new one!
Good luck with school and be safe !!
Sears/Craftsman is probably your best bang for the buck as far as quality vs. price and the warrenty again is lifetime so no worries.
12 point is hard to come by at Crappy Tire and Sears Canada so you will need to research for other options...start here !! http://www.handsontools.com/ they are an american company but will ship to Canada and will mark whatever you want on the customs slip for a price so you will not have to pay much duty...PLUS the tools are high quality with an absolutly great prices. The customer service is good to boot !! I bought all my sockets and ratches from them and I haven't had one hiccup.
I bought a 8 piece screw driver set (ratching included) from snap-on, a pair of duckbills, lockwire pliers(reversible, wave jaws), long handled side cutters, and snap-ring pliers. The rest from sears or crappy tire.
Also, everytime I break a Snap-on tool I get 50 questions on how I broke it and "it's going to be a couple of week before I get you a new one" and so on... so keep that in mind, Canadian Tire and Sears just point you to a new one!
Good luck with school and be safe !!
As far as finding 12pt. sockets goes I would suggest SK. They are almost identical to snap on but about half the price, the flex sockets they sell are also a good investment.
You can also make good use of the Knipex plier wrench available from crawfordtool.com, these are the same ones snap on sells for 3X the price. I find the quality of them to be excellent.
The Snap On ratcheting screwdriver gets top marks in my books, make sure you get the ACR Phillips bits, they really help to save the fasteners if you don't overtorqe them to begin with.
You can also make good use of the Knipex plier wrench available from crawfordtool.com, these are the same ones snap on sells for 3X the price. I find the quality of them to be excellent.
The Snap On ratcheting screwdriver gets top marks in my books, make sure you get the ACR Phillips bits, they really help to save the fasteners if you don't overtorqe them to begin with.
Most of my everyday hand tools are Snap on. Their sockets are lighter and thinner than most other brands. Same goes for the wrenches.
Tigerwave reversible lockwire pliers (doesn't damage the lockwire) from Snap on as well. The ever reliable Snap-on ratcheting screwdriver (standard and stubby) now comes with shanks available in different lengths. 3/16" to 9/16" 12pt deep and shallow sockets, 1/4" to 9/16" standard wrenches, 1/4 to 1" angled wrenches all Snap on. Duck bill pliers, standard cutters, Adjustable pliers (should I mention vise grips???)
To me weight is always an issue since I travel and have to lug my tools all over the place. Hmmm 50 lbs of tools or 30 lbs of tools.....???
Go to http://www.sears.com and see what is available (US only) to the ame's in the states. Visit any Sears store (in the US) and check out their tool selection. Way better than CDN tire anyday. But then again CDN tire has come a long way in their tool selection. Plus it goes on sale practically every other week. Home Depot also has a good selection of their own (Husky) brand plus an assortment of brand name tools. And a good tool box to carry it in and keep it organized..........
It has to feel right when you hold it and when you use it. Buy it to use it not show it off. And that comes with time and experience. Every AME is different and uses tools that are comfortable to him/her. And it always depends on what equipment he/she works on.
Tigerwave reversible lockwire pliers (doesn't damage the lockwire) from Snap on as well. The ever reliable Snap-on ratcheting screwdriver (standard and stubby) now comes with shanks available in different lengths. 3/16" to 9/16" 12pt deep and shallow sockets, 1/4" to 9/16" standard wrenches, 1/4 to 1" angled wrenches all Snap on. Duck bill pliers, standard cutters, Adjustable pliers (should I mention vise grips???)
To me weight is always an issue since I travel and have to lug my tools all over the place. Hmmm 50 lbs of tools or 30 lbs of tools.....???
Go to http://www.sears.com and see what is available (US only) to the ame's in the states. Visit any Sears store (in the US) and check out their tool selection. Way better than CDN tire anyday. But then again CDN tire has come a long way in their tool selection. Plus it goes on sale practically every other week. Home Depot also has a good selection of their own (Husky) brand plus an assortment of brand name tools. And a good tool box to carry it in and keep it organized..........
It has to feel right when you hold it and when you use it. Buy it to use it not show it off. And that comes with time and experience. Every AME is different and uses tools that are comfortable to him/her. And it always depends on what equipment he/she works on.
I'm sorry
I'm on my third Snap on wire twisters. Inherent flaw design with the spring. Hey they were free to replace. I kept on upgrading and paying just the difference each time they broke. All sockets and wrenches still good after 17 years......Duck bill pliers a little sloppy but still good. 2nd pair of cutters. 1st pair retired to home use.
Now for intended use of tools. I see plenty of screwdriver marks on nacelle doors where some "champion" found a faster way to open doors. I guess his cousin is an S guy. Lots of damaged cannon plugs where the "champion" used pliers with teeth. Stripped screws (phillips and tri wings) that a power drill was used on (to take off and put on). Too lazy to go and get new ones.
Does a stand qualify as a tool? Plenty of nicks and dents on nacelles and fuselage where (same guy) got too close to the A/C and never bothered to cap off the edges with foam.
How about hammers that are useful in pounding seats in tracks? Lots of bent/damaged legs.
I'm on my third Snap on wire twisters. Inherent flaw design with the spring. Hey they were free to replace. I kept on upgrading and paying just the difference each time they broke. All sockets and wrenches still good after 17 years......Duck bill pliers a little sloppy but still good. 2nd pair of cutters. 1st pair retired to home use.
Now for intended use of tools. I see plenty of screwdriver marks on nacelle doors where some "champion" found a faster way to open doors. I guess his cousin is an S guy. Lots of damaged cannon plugs where the "champion" used pliers with teeth. Stripped screws (phillips and tri wings) that a power drill was used on (to take off and put on). Too lazy to go and get new ones.
Does a stand qualify as a tool? Plenty of nicks and dents on nacelles and fuselage where (same guy) got too close to the A/C and never bothered to cap off the edges with foam.
How about hammers that are useful in pounding seats in tracks? Lots of bent/damaged legs.
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Sideblinder
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I'm still hoping for incidents where one of the lesser brands of tools failed to do the job due to lack of strength, size, shape, etc.
Also, if you guys don't already know, you need to get on ebay for US Craftsman stuff. You can get a full set of craftsman 12 point, 3/8ths & 1/4, laser etched, deep, shallow, metric & standard for under 150. Even under 100 if your lucky/persistent. I think there's one or two combinations that they don't make in laser etched yet, deep metric maybe, but you can squint at those.
I'm still hoping for incidents where one of the lesser brands of tools failed to do the job due to lack of strength, size, shape, etc.
Also, if you guys don't already know, you need to get on ebay for US Craftsman stuff. You can get a full set of craftsman 12 point, 3/8ths & 1/4, laser etched, deep, shallow, metric & standard for under 150. Even under 100 if your lucky/persistent. I think there's one or two combinations that they don't make in laser etched yet, deep metric maybe, but you can squint at those.
I have found that with some research you can buy anything from the snap on truck named "Blue Point" from its original manufacturer for a fraction of the cost. example: Knipex pliers from website, $35. Blue Point version $80. (approx prices)
As for cheaper tools not doing the job, ive found the only tools that dont measure up are the pliers: snap on duck bills, cutters, and lock wire pliers. once your used to them you cant use anything else with the same efficiency.
The mastercraft ones are too bulky and the start to "walk" almost immediately.
Also offset pliers are a must and I havn't found any good ones other that snap on and Mac.
One more thing is finding a screwdriver bit supplier you like. Cantire wont replace them for free when they break, but my snap on guy will. So thats a bonus.
As for cheaper tools not doing the job, ive found the only tools that dont measure up are the pliers: snap on duck bills, cutters, and lock wire pliers. once your used to them you cant use anything else with the same efficiency.
The mastercraft ones are too bulky and the start to "walk" almost immediately.
Also offset pliers are a must and I havn't found any good ones other that snap on and Mac.
One more thing is finding a screwdriver bit supplier you like. Cantire wont replace them for free when they break, but my snap on guy will. So thats a bonus.
As I said Snap on sockets are lighter and thinner. They also carry spline sockets and even thinner "aviation" sockets. All that is for a reason. The spline sockets will work on all types of fasteners but they cost more money.
If the tool breaks then is it a failure of the tool (design, fabrication process) or operator misuse? Any tool will break if pushed beyond its limit. Even Snap on doesn't offer a lifetime warranty on their Blue point line of tools.
Nearly all Cdn tire (as one example) tools are thicker bigger heavier. Its the design. To give you strength at a low price there has to be a compromise. The tools will work just fine 99% of the time. Its that 1% you will wish you had the expensive socket or wrench. Its then that you will go out and buy it (or modify/cut/bend/create a tool for that one time use). In fact some AME's will buy the cheap stuff so they can modify it.
The cheaper sockets will not grab the thinner head bolts or nuts. The bottom of the socket is rounded out to allow you to slip the socket onto the head. So what to do next? Grind off the socket so it will grab the fastener to allow you to turn it......So here is another failure of the tool.
At one time it was difficult to get stubby wrenches. Like it was expensive....So guys would cut down wrenches to make them fit. These days even CDN tire carries stubby wrenches, even ratcheting wrenches.
Just remember the cheaper the tool you use the higher the likelihood you will damage the thing you are working on. And then someone will come along to help you.
If the tool breaks then is it a failure of the tool (design, fabrication process) or operator misuse? Any tool will break if pushed beyond its limit. Even Snap on doesn't offer a lifetime warranty on their Blue point line of tools.
Nearly all Cdn tire (as one example) tools are thicker bigger heavier. Its the design. To give you strength at a low price there has to be a compromise. The tools will work just fine 99% of the time. Its that 1% you will wish you had the expensive socket or wrench. Its then that you will go out and buy it (or modify/cut/bend/create a tool for that one time use). In fact some AME's will buy the cheap stuff so they can modify it.
The cheaper sockets will not grab the thinner head bolts or nuts. The bottom of the socket is rounded out to allow you to slip the socket onto the head. So what to do next? Grind off the socket so it will grab the fastener to allow you to turn it......So here is another failure of the tool.
At one time it was difficult to get stubby wrenches. Like it was expensive....So guys would cut down wrenches to make them fit. These days even CDN tire carries stubby wrenches, even ratcheting wrenches.
Just remember the cheaper the tool you use the higher the likelihood you will damage the thing you are working on. And then someone will come along to help you.
I only buy Snap on for wrenches and 1/4 drive sockets.
Oh and occasional pliers. But the mastercraft brand is decent. But they Pro line wrenches will not compare with a snap on wrench.
Also for ratcheting screwdrivers I would only buy snap on.
Now snap can be over priced for many items, I agree. And I also wondered how snap on can stay in business. Only reason I could find was that they come to our work. And we get to slip out to look at tools when we are on the clock.
But if we had to drive to a snap on store, they would probably go tits up.
Oh and occasional pliers. But the mastercraft brand is decent. But they Pro line wrenches will not compare with a snap on wrench.
Also for ratcheting screwdrivers I would only buy snap on.
Now snap can be over priced for many items, I agree. And I also wondered how snap on can stay in business. Only reason I could find was that they come to our work. And we get to slip out to look at tools when we are on the clock.
But if we had to drive to a snap on store, they would probably go tits up.
Don't be disgruntled....move on!
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Fully Articulated
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Agree with you 1000% twotter. Stick with Craftman for everything, better quality and cheaper. People think Snap-on is some sort of status thing. Not so. It's the status of the engineer behind the tool that counts, not the other way around. Snap-on tools do not make an engineer good!!twotter wrote:Fully Articulated wrote:What are you cutting with these cutters twotter? Diamonds? Wires with 28VDC still attached?Now that's an intelligent response
Snap-on cutters have been crap as long as I've been in this business.. Craftsman will last far longer for less money.
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ourkid2000
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Troubleshot
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Nightshiftzombie
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The reason I asked what you are using your side cutters for is that I use mine for cutting lock wire and Split pins (thats it) I have had the same set for about 10 years and they are still working great. I have screw cutters, rivit cutters, wire cutters, hose cutters, tie wrap cutters, zip wheel, and hack saw for every thing else.
The tool issue is of a personal nature and many arguments can be made for all brands. I personally feel that since my living is made with the use of tools I will invest whatever is required to ensure I can complete my required tasks with the least amount of effort and with the least amount of frustration.
I can understand that certain individuals have decided that the benifits from purchasing snap on tools do not outweigh the increase in price and I cannot and will not argue that, however to make claim that Snap on tools are junk is crazy. It would appear that the persons stating that Snap on tools are junk are individuals that have made the personal decision to purchase tools from other sources. Is there anyone out there that has purchased Snap on tools set and later decided to retire that set and go out and purchase a set from Canadian tire due to quality issues. I think not.
I will agree that tool technology has come a long way in the last 20 years and if it had been there when I was originally purchasing my tools perhaps I would own canadian tire tools but it wasn't.
The tool issue is of a personal nature and many arguments can be made for all brands. I personally feel that since my living is made with the use of tools I will invest whatever is required to ensure I can complete my required tasks with the least amount of effort and with the least amount of frustration.
I can understand that certain individuals have decided that the benifits from purchasing snap on tools do not outweigh the increase in price and I cannot and will not argue that, however to make claim that Snap on tools are junk is crazy. It would appear that the persons stating that Snap on tools are junk are individuals that have made the personal decision to purchase tools from other sources. Is there anyone out there that has purchased Snap on tools set and later decided to retire that set and go out and purchase a set from Canadian tire due to quality issues. I think not.
I will agree that tool technology has come a long way in the last 20 years and if it had been there when I was originally purchasing my tools perhaps I would own canadian tire tools but it wasn't.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward's
I've got a pair I picked up at Princess Auto for $12 that are every bit as good as the Snap-on ones..Troubleshot wrote:I have to disagree Twotty the snap on long handle side cutters are an absolute dream for cutting and removing cotter pins...they cut pennies too
Well, it's nice that you realise that side cutters are not for every job.. However, my experience is that the snap-on cutters will not stay sharp as long as other manufacturers. They simply are not worth the extra money unless you are one of the people who thinks it is a status symbol to have an all snap-on box.. BTW, the only people who refer to cotter pins as split pins are the inbred limey types..The reason I asked what you are using your side cutters for is that I use mine for cutting lock wire and Split pins (thats it) I have had the same set for about 10 years and they are still working great. I have screw cutters, rivit cutters, wire cutters, hose cutters, tie wrap cutters, zip wheel, and hack saw for every thing else
I'm sure that Mike loves you for that.. Most people will agree that there are tools that will give you far more bang for your buck than many snap-on tools. I feel my money is better spent on things like a new hockey stick or a new fishing rod..he tool issue is of a personal nature and many arguments can be made for all brands. I personally feel that since my living is made with the use of tools I will invest whatever is required to ensure I can complete my required tasks with the least amount of effort and with the least amount of frustration.
I once destroyed a pair of side cutters by cutting something I shouldn't have and learned my lesson. Choose the tool you are going to use based upon the task you are performing and your tools will last much longer.
When it comes to wire twisters I have used many different versions and I do prefer my Tigerwave reverseables(from snap on). They aren't actually made by snap on, they just put their name on them and if you can find an SK distributor you can pick them up for much cheaper. I also have never seen one break... yet.
When it comes to wire twisters I have used many different versions and I do prefer my Tigerwave reverseables(from snap on). They aren't actually made by snap on, they just put their name on them and if you can find an SK distributor you can pick them up for much cheaper. I also have never seen one break... yet.
I have to agree that the Snap-On long reach cutters are great, as well as the offset wrenches, and flank drive wrenches (if you can afford them).
I suggest spending the money on the stuff you use most ( 1/4 drive stuff, ratcheting screw driver etc). Snap-On quality is usually better but not worth the money if its a tool you use only once a year. That being said I have seen some Snap-On tools that some how slipped through quality control and where crap (cutters included). We can all agree when it comes to a professionals tools it will always come down to personal preferance.
As for warrenty, it has alot to do with the particular dealer rather then the company. Most companies cover their tools now, but keep in mind if you
break some fingers because a tool breaks or slips its not the warrenty you will be concerned with.
I suggest spending the money on the stuff you use most ( 1/4 drive stuff, ratcheting screw driver etc). Snap-On quality is usually better but not worth the money if its a tool you use only once a year. That being said I have seen some Snap-On tools that some how slipped through quality control and where crap (cutters included). We can all agree when it comes to a professionals tools it will always come down to personal preferance.
As for warrenty, it has alot to do with the particular dealer rather then the company. Most companies cover their tools now, but keep in mind if you
break some fingers because a tool breaks or slips its not the warrenty you will be concerned with.
Re: Tool longevity.
Hi Robert,
I'm a Tech Ed teacher in Halifax and I recommend the Following brand names:
Top "industrial" quality: Dewalt, Hitachi, General, Makita
Ok "home use" quality: Ryobi, Porter Cable, MasterCraft, Craftsman, Delta
Low "will break within a year and cost you more money in the long run to replace it" quality: Craftex, Jobmate, and any other tools that costs 50% or less than the same industrial quality tool!
Hope this helps,
Cheers!
Ps. I only mentioned brand names with which I am familiar with ... there are many other brands that you might wish to consider!
[quote="Sideblinder"]In light of the many debates over tool quality, many of which center around durability and warranty service quality, I ask that anyone who has experience with tools breaking post here about the circumstances. My only condition is, I would like everyone posting to honestly tell us if they were using the tool in the intended manner.
I am most interested in info on brands like mastercraft and craftsman, although I'd like to hear about the top of the line snap-on, gray, etc.
Robert
By the way, I'm a student at the Nova Scotia Community College AME program, soon to be an apprentice.[/quote]
I'm a Tech Ed teacher in Halifax and I recommend the Following brand names:
Top "industrial" quality: Dewalt, Hitachi, General, Makita
Ok "home use" quality: Ryobi, Porter Cable, MasterCraft, Craftsman, Delta
Low "will break within a year and cost you more money in the long run to replace it" quality: Craftex, Jobmate, and any other tools that costs 50% or less than the same industrial quality tool!
Hope this helps,
Cheers!
Ps. I only mentioned brand names with which I am familiar with ... there are many other brands that you might wish to consider!
[quote="Sideblinder"]In light of the many debates over tool quality, many of which center around durability and warranty service quality, I ask that anyone who has experience with tools breaking post here about the circumstances. My only condition is, I would like everyone posting to honestly tell us if they were using the tool in the intended manner.
I am most interested in info on brands like mastercraft and craftsman, although I'd like to hear about the top of the line snap-on, gray, etc.
Robert
By the way, I'm a student at the Nova Scotia Community College AME program, soon to be an apprentice.[/quote]
By and large Snap on tools are good. That being said they can't make a good set of cutters. I own two sets and they are very tough to cut with when compared to some others. Snap on makes a good set of wire spinners but don't get the reversagle they seem to be too delicate. One drop on the floor and its over.
People should not have to fear both the government and the criminal. It should be that the criminal fears both the people and the government.
tools
Well let me tell you a thing or two about a thing or two. Princess Auto has the best deal around. Cheap tools so you're not going broke buying them , lifetime garantee , even on things like die grinders(which even great costly snap on ones fail all the time) and it's the best store in the whole world. Ok maybe not but I've found that often I have to modify a tool to get into a spot or what ever it takes to make my life easier and you wouldn't want to do that to a wrench that you spent huge money on. ...Oh and sears in the states have really good tools, different then what we get. However spend good money on a set of racheting wrenches it'll be totally worth it.
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scouty-dog
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cutters
Well since everyone is arguing about the cutters, I'll say, buy the Snap-on. If they dull, break them. If the salesknob doesn't warranty them, threaten to call the next-over regional area snap-on salesman and buy a set of offset wrenches/uv sockets. He will warranty them.
You pay the premium, cultivate the rewards.
Craftsman is also great, except for uv sockets. Buy Snap-on. At 3AM, a few hours to dispatch and you can't reach a certain fastener, you'll realize it's money well spent.
You pay the premium, cultivate the rewards.
Craftsman is also great, except for uv sockets. Buy Snap-on. At 3AM, a few hours to dispatch and you can't reach a certain fastener, you'll realize it's money well spent.
