must be fun??!

[MUSKEG]

This industry is so screwed up. It has 250 hr pilots teaching a commercial licence. No experience, little knowledge, but oh so willing to tell all they know. The 10000 hr guys who should be doing the training and being well paid for it are busy making 75 g's a year looking after someones multi million dollar business. (75) might be stretching it a little. And these 10000 hr guys say little because it only leads to being shat on by those who think they know so much. I believe Hedley you probably fall into that catagory.

[Cat Driver]

Muskeg:

Being a high time pilot is counter productive in flight training.

You should see the flack I take on the flight instructors forum....

...then again I don't have the advantage of holding a Canadian flight instructors rating so obviously what I think is wrong....

.....and there are a few hot shot flight instructors who just love telling me how wrong I am.

[Hedley]

http://www.pittspecials.com/movies/outsideloop.wmv

'nuff said.

[Widow]

Isn't it kind of bad to fly a plane improperly? Like, can't it do damage that may not be immediately visible and endanger the lives of the next pilot etc. to be on board that plane not knowing what idiot was last flying it? Or am I taking this out of context?

[cloudcounter]

From what I see- Pitts are never supposed to be flown properly

Isn't it kind of bad to fly a plane improperly? Like, can't it do damage that may not be immediately visible and endanger the lives of the next pilot etc. to be on board that plane not knowing what idiot was last flying it? Or am I taking this out of context?

[Hedley]

This is Jim Leroy:

http://www.bulldogairshows.com/video/20 ... 0water.mpg
http://www.bulldogairshows.com/video/20 ... ke-off.mpg
http://www.bulldogairshows.com/video/20 ... 20rush.mpg

[rsandor]

Isn't it kind of bad to fly a plane improperly? Like, can't it do damage that may not be immediately visible and endanger the lives of the next pilot etc. to be on board that plane not knowing what idiot was last flying it? Or am I taking this out of context?

Yes. But "improperly" and "illegally" are two completely different things. You must differentiate law from safety, as they are not mutually exclusive. Staying within the law does not guarantee complete safety, and straying outside the law is not always unsafe. (why some people cannot understand this, boggles my mind..)

Pilots are not supposed to perform those manuevers in that plane because the plane is not certified for them. The plane can indeed safely perform those manuevers (granted the pilot knows what they are doing) even though the plane is not certified for it. Comprende?

Yes, if you perform the maneuver incorrectly, you can cause major severe damage to the aircraft. Since most average pilots do not have 10,000hours of aerobatics experience, it's frowned upon to do that sort of thing. But if Bob Hoover does it, it's super cool.

This is why we shouldn't jump to conclusions - we don't know what circumstances the plane is being flown under!

[Widow]

Comprende?

Ah, si, ahora yo comprendo.

Just because the manual says don't do it, doesn't mean you can't do it. But, sometimes aren't there reasons you aren't supposed to do something? Reasons that may not be in the manual? Reasons the pilot may not be aware of?

I realize that straying outside the law isn't always unsafe (and staying inside it doesn't guarantee safety either, by any stretch). But in general, the rules are there for a reason, are they not?

[Kilo-Kilo]

because of centrifugal force overcoming the 1G of gravity.

I don't believe there is such a "force".....i believe what you are refering to is inertia..... would have thought an engineer would be aware of that......

Inertia is a byproduct created by centrifugal force in Hedley's example. Another instance would be intial reel shoulder belts. The inertia created by the centrifugal force caused by the rapid rotation of the reel throws the pawls out that lock the reel and stop the belt from further extending.

centrifugal force is defined as "that force which tends to impel a thing, or parts of a thing outward from the centre of rotation"

As a pilot, you should know that the acceleration that creates the concept of "g force" is a byproduct of centrifugal force. Why do think they use "centrifuges" for pilot physiological study when simulating forces encountered in flight?

[beechy]

Centrifugal force is a term used by people.....no such force exists in that it isn't a real force....it is a psuedo force.

A = V squared / R (1)
F = MA (2)

Substituting (1) into (2) gives:

F = M x V squared / R

Nice you know you are calculating CENTRIPITAL Force.....the force which is puling you into the turn.....Lift provides this force in a plane when turning.....

Your body is trying to move in a straight line (inertia) and hence your body runs into the seat in your aircraft which is accelerating inwards(to the turn)..... This is why you get the sensation of G's. There is no force, ie. nothing forcing you outwards.....it is your body trying to keep its motion linear (inertia). I thought this was high school physics.......

BTW i'll keep my degree thanks, the education recieved was well worth it..Ididn't get a faggy pinky ring, but all the same i am happier....how bout you go cut and paste some more quotes from people Hedley.

[Cat Driver]

So how about G?

Is it G force?

G load?

G spot?

G...?

[beechy]

G is a letter Cat

[Kilo-Kilo]

So how about G?

Is it G force?

G load?

G spot?

G...?

By his logic, the force on the chair I'm sitting in (1G) is being created by my downward inertia? Even though I'm stationary? I can't remember if gravity is a force or not and I don't have time to re-read the whole four forces thread again.

However, I think the G-spot can only be solved by forward and back inertia. Hope that helps.

[rsandor]

But in general, the rules are there for a reason, are they not?

Yes, and I explained the reason, and why it can be considered safe to break that rule in certain situations.

[beechy]

By his logic, the force on the chair I'm sitting in (1G) is being created by my downward inertia? Even though I'm stationary? I can't remember if gravity is a force or not and I don't have time to re-read the whole four forces thread again.

Just ask hedley he has it saved on his comp.....i said i was wrong there.

But you're an idiot. Gravity is a real force.

[rsandor]

Gravity is definately a force. It is a component of weight.

weight = (mass of airplane x accelleration of gravity)

[Kilo-Kilo]

But you're an idiot. Gravity is a real force.

No shit, Sherlock. And sarcasm is an intonation of speach.

[Hedley]

I didn't get a faggy pinky ring

OOooohh, someone is bitter that they couldn't get into Engineering!

Oh well, I can understand your unhappiness at your resulting lot in life - look where you ended up?

P.S. It's too bad your low-rent education didn't cover "frame of reference". Your assertion that centrifugal force "doesn't exist" is almost as funny as your assertion that gravity results from the earth's spinning. Obviously you've never flown a steep turn in an airplane, or driven a car around a corner, and experienced this "non-existent" force firsthand!

I can see why so many people disregard and denigrate University educations, after they read what you write, Beechy. Now, don't you have a master's thesis you're supposed to be working on right now?