Personal Licence Booklet

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:51 pm

Has anybody heard of this before?

Got the latest version of the Safety Letter and they have a description of our New licence Booklet.

It "will consolidate all Canadian aviation personnel licensing documents and will also include the holder's photograph and signature, licence and medical labels, a language proficiency rating, a competency record and security features for positive authentication."

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:07 pm

Cont.

"The Licence booklet will be similar to the present-day Canadian passport. The Licence booklet will be issued to all current licence holders and will conform to the international standards. Transport Canada plans a "phased-in" approach for the initial booklet issue, which is expected to be completed by spring 2008. Transport Canada will begin issuing licence booklets to ATPL pilots and ATC, followed by other licence holders. In consulting with our industry partners, we have determined that there will be no cost to licence holders."

"No cost to licence holders"

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:17 pm

For the record, it does look pretty good... and professional.

Think Passport, and you have the general look of the document.

They will be issued from a central location, with regional offices issuing endorsements (etc.) in the form of "stickers" that will be applied to the document. At least, that is the last version that I saw.

Glad to see that it will come at no cost.

-Guy

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:07 am

TC Guy wrote:
They will be issued from a central location, with regional offices issuing endorsements (etc.) in the form of "stickers" that will be applied to the document. At least, that is the last version that I saw.

-Guy

Oh boy a sticker book. Do we get crayons too?

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:33 am

Oh boy a sticker book. Do we get crayons too?

Hah! LOL! No crayons, though - we might get the wax all over the instruments.

Northern Skies · Post by **Northern Skies** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:54 pm

I guess it's far too late to suggest now, but abandoning paper and printing these on tyvek would be a good idea - tough and waterproof.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:47 pm

I think they expire every 5 years, don't they?

And as the pusher once told me, the first one is free.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:02 pm

Exactly my thoughts! Just like the AIM. Give you a couple for free but then if you wanna keep flying and be legal/current, it's gonna cost you. Bums. I like my wallet the way it is....very cheap, never expires and carries everything I need. Except cash.

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:31 pm

ei ei owe wrote:...Just like the AIM. Give you a couple for free but then if you wanna keep flying and be legal/current, it's gonna cost you...

What are you talking about?
1. You have the option of subscribing to the electronic (PDF) edition of it for free. You only pay if you want to receive hard copies.
2. Like the AIP it replaced, you do not have to carry a copy of the AIM with you to "keep flying and be legal/current"

... having the electronic copy on your computer is more than sufficient.

Edit: Sorry ei ei owe ... re-reading your post, it looks like you may have meant that you will have to pay for future licenses to remain legal, etc. Reading some dumb-asses comments in another thread had me in a bit of a sour mood before posting that. Please disregard.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:48 pm

If I were designing the system we'd get no licence at all, just our licence number that we can memorize. Then have a current, complete, national database of all pilots that includes a photo, all their licences/ratings, and the dates for their medical validity. Make this database accessible to TC ramp agents over the internet (or where that's not practical, in weekly downloadable updates). Also make this database accessible to certified employers and insurance companies; charge them $5 per lookup to cover the operating costs. The only problem is that some pilots might not be able to remember their number/ratings. You could write their number down on a piece of paper for them

and say that if you can't remember what ratings you hold you shouldn't be excercising their privledges

.

Anways, I'm happy to go with whatever system TC wants if it doesn't cost me anything. Who really cares that much about that piece of paper anyways? As long as it works...

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:48 pm

Call me old and grumpy but ...

I remember when the fuel exise tax was imposed, and we were told that it was to pay for ATC. Well, the fucking communists in Ottawa steal that money now (general revenue, anyone?) and NavCan obnoxiously tells us that we have to pay them again. @#$! OFF.

I remember when the medical fee was imposed, to pay for the AIP. Now, I don't get any AIP, and I still have to pay the fee every medical. @#$! OFF.

Now, they want us to pay for a new licence every 5 years. It's more secure because it's made from paper, just like the old one (WTF?!)

Sometimes I spend all day, trying to keep the paperpushers in the government happy.

I have to renew my passport. It's expired, I get my new one in mid-march, can't leave the country until then.
I have to renew my health card - it expires now, too.
I have to renew my car driver's licence.
I have to renew my car's plate sticker.
I have to emissions test my car, to renew my car's plate sticker.
I have to renew my car's insurance.
I have to get a medical every 6 months to keep Transport happy, even though ICAO says 12 months is ok.
I have to do an ICAS practical evaluation with an ACE to keep my airshow card.
I have to do a MIFR ride to keep my group 1.
I have to do instructor and aerobatic instructor re-rides.
NOW I have to renew my pilot's licence (photo, fee, etc).

For the privilege of serving the paperpushers, I have to pay a SHITLOAD of federal tax, provincial tax, UI, CPP, GST, PST, ad nauseum.

Any time now guys, it would be really ok to say we have just about ENOUGH FUCKING GOVERNMENT. What is this, Nazi Germany?

Adam Oke · Post by **Adam Oke** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:15 pm

Alright....Seeing as my license went through the wash.

Yea yea, everyone point and laugh obnoxiously.

Ok, now that that is over with. Where can I get this new issue of license? Or will they even bother with General Aviation for a while yet?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:20 pm

Hedley:

How about sending say 75% of government employees home with full pay as long as they never ever show up at work?

Then private enterprise can succeed or fail based on the quality of service you offer?

By the way there is another simple method to avoid dealing with most of this government B.S.

Work for cash.

Don't bother with any license or fee, just ignore the coc.suckers and if they do finally get around to fining you don't pay.

There really isn't much they can do to in the final analysis, but first you have to divest yourself of anything they can confiscate.

Cat

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:09 am

It may be a little simple but why not a card just like our drivers license ? They already have the plastic cards and printers all selected and would not require any further research. The cards could have all our information and the standard picture pulled up from the current drivers database. More durable than paper and the magnetic strip could make it easy for a TC agent to verify the info on the card ?

-=0=LiR=0=-

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:52 am

LostinRotation:

That is to simple and logical.

RatherBeFlying · Post by **RatherBeFlying** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:06 am

My current set of TC-mandated paperwork all fits in one of those license holders that fits in my rear pants pocket no problem; so, is with me in whatever I fly and I do not have to worry about leaving it behind.

With the passport sized thingy, I guess it will live in my flight bag, but there's no place to put a flight bag in a Citabria if you're doing aeros. Hey, it's a challenge in the Citabria to find somewhere to keep the CFS where you can reach it in flight.

And then there's gliders.

So I guess I have to get one of these money pouch thingies to hold the passport thingy.

The first one may be free, but it looks to me that TC will be doing a roaring business in replacing lost ones.

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:25 am

RatherBeFlying wrote:...And then there's gliders...

So what? There are lots of places in a glider to put documents.

A passport sized document fits in your pocket just as easily as a wallet does ...it just doesn't fit in your wallet. Really, the people who should really be making a stink about the new format are the companies who make & sell those leather 'license holders'.

I do agree that a drivers license style plastic card (with either magnetic stripe or barcode) would be a better solution. And I also agree that any additional cost will suck ... but I'm not convinced that our current style (i.e. a piece of folded paper) is the best.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:05 am

All this is very nice - the FAA uses credit card-sized licences - but what will it cost? First one free, maybe, but passport photos are $20. I would be willing to bet a case of Guinness that the license won't be less than $75.00. After all, to stick a medical report in a file costs $110 per year.

Every five years? No less than a passport, probably $100.00 to TC alone.

Any takers?

Sticker fees
Glue fees
Replacement fees
Temporary issue fees
Guarantor or notary fees
More pages fees
Lost it in Mexico fees
Stapler fees
Get someone to sign it fees
Fee fees

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:09 am

neilblythin,
No sweat. I wasn't too clear either but I did mean paying for the license book.

As for this:
I have to renew my passport. It's expired, I get my new one in mid-march, can't leave the country until then.
I have to renew my health card - it expires now, too.
I have to renew my car driver's licence.
I have to renew my car's plate sticker.
I have to emissions test my car, to renew my car's plate sticker.
I have to renew my car's insurance.
I have to get a medical every 6 months to keep Transport happy, even though ICAO says 12 months is ok.
I have to do an ICAS practical evaluation with an ACE to keep my airshow card.
I have to do a MIFR ride to keep my group 1.
I have to do instructor and aerobatic instructor re-rides.
NOW I have to renew my pilot's licence (photo, fee, etc).

Renewal make a lot of work for alot of people and could be trimmed down but they are a part of life. How could you prove competency after doing a test many years ago? I think renewals should be seen as a challenge to keep skills up and the more you have to do, the more you've taken on and have accomplished. I've dodged enough aged and lousy auto drivers that really need yearly testing to either stay on or get booted off the road.
As for the redundant fees, that remains a fight we'll never win unless the company you work for deems you so important, it will pay for the fees.

RatherBeFlying · Post by **RatherBeFlying** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:11 pm

So what? There are lots of places in a glider to put documents.

If that's the only a/c you fly, you can just leave it in the document pouch with the glider docs. It gets more fun in a club glider with who knows how many people in and out of the front and back seats with now extra wear and tear on document pouches in various stages of falling apart.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:06 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Hedley:

How about sending say 75% of government employees home with full pay as long as they never ever show up at work?

Then private enterprise can succeed or fail based on the quality of service you offer?

By the way there is another simple method to avoid dealing with most of this government B.S.

Work for cash.

Don't bother with any license or fee, just ignore the coc.suckers and if they do finally get around to fining you don't pay.

There really isn't much they can do to in the final analysis, but first you have to divest yourself of anything they can confiscate.

Cat

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/172/mat-aintbad.wav

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:42 pm

RatherBeFlying wrote:If that's the only a/c you fly, you can just leave it in the document pouch with the glider docs. It gets more fun in a club glider with who knows how many people in and out of the front and back seats with now extra wear and tear on document pouches in various stages of falling apart.

Ah, ok.

Suggestion: When I go gliding, I tend to wear my tilley hat ... which has a pouch in it (where the floating foam goes). I usually stick my license in there.

Edit: I was just thinking, the concept of these 'passport-style' licenses reminds me of those very early aviation licenses (issued by the FAI & Aero Club). I always thought they looked pretty neat!

....although still not 'neat' enough to be worth the additional expense to us.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:27 am

There will, at least for the forseeable decade, be a need for some sort of solid documentation. What if you want to rent an airplane (they want to see you have a valid licence). What if you get ramp checked in Puerto Armuelles or Lagos by a foreign fed?

The "passport" model smacks of a very European/African model. Many countries are now printing them on plastic credit card sized cards. Even the medical certificates can be done this way. The beauty is compactness, durability, ease of carry (right in your wallet behind the Mastercard which you used to renew the thing with).

niss · Post by **niss** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:03 am

So if the passport type wont fit in our pilot wallets how is everyone in the bar supposed to know that we 'break the surly bonds of earth'?

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:48 am

Panama Jack wrote: The beauty is compactness, durability, ease of carry (right in your wallet behind the Mastercard which you used to renew the thing with).

PJ you've forgot mention the best reason for a credit card type document....being as this is Canada..... Windshield ice scrapper.