Wilderness North Air Tractor

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Rudy
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Wilderness North Air Tractor

Post by Rudy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:33 pm

So what's the plan for this aircraft? Will it be operating it on wheels or is it a fire boss variant? Will the MNR be contracting it or the lumber companies? Maybe it's for when some drunk american sets fire to one of the lodges.
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Post by phillyfan » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:04 pm

Fuel hauls
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Post by Boss Hawg » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:16 am

phillyfan wrote:Fuel hauls
For real? Where? From Thunder Bay or Armstrong?
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Post by Rudy » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:29 pm

Does the AT 802 have any spots to store the fuel pumps? What about ice protection or IFR certification? Yeah it can hold a lot of liquid but has this been completely thought out? If the weather goes out for a week the lights go out in YWP, and Jonas is going to be pissed he can't watch his bell expressvu. Do they actually have the aircraft yet or is this still a theory?
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Post by Rudder Bug » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:53 pm

Do they actually have the aircraft yet or is this still a theory?
That's been puzzling me for a couple years
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Post by Flybabe » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:14 pm

Air Tractors have been used to haul fuel for years, it's not a new concept.
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Post by Water off » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:07 am

Actually it is a new concept and the aircraft has to go through a certification process in order to do this. The concept when completed will be probably the most efficient hauler out there. The equilvalent of 18 drums for less than T/O operating cost.
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Post by bigsky » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:31 am

Water off wrote: The equilvalent of 18 drums for less than T/O operating cost.
The hopper capacity on an AT-802 is 800 US gallons or 666 imperial gallons or about 3050 ltrs. All of which work out to about 14.8 drums

What is the certification process? Air tractor and other crop dusters have been hauling fuel for decades now. As long as you don't exceed the landing weight what else is there to do?

There was a question of pumps? What do you need pumps on the aircraft for? There will be a pump at each end. about 5 mins to fill it and 3 mins to empty it.

802 landing weight is 16000 lbs. I think the 502 might have a lower landing weight than take off..but don't quote me on that.
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Flybabe
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Post by Flybabe » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:11 am

Water off wrote:Actually it is a new concept
No, it's not....

Unless I've been having delusions on past fuel hauls and the AT's that I saw were just figments of my imagination.

However, I HAVE been a bit out of the loop so maybe there are some ADDITIONAL requirements now. I have to agree with Bigsky on his comments, that's exactly what I recall.
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Post by Doc » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:53 am

It IS a new concept.....for Canada. I've seen them do it in the States.
Where to store the pumps? They don't need no stinking pumps! Prop brake, and what works like a "PTO", the engine does the pumping. Pilot can stay in his seat. As for poor weather days...just park the sucker! There's always tomorrow. Leave the stupid IFR crap to the other guys! Single pilot, day, VFR! KISS!
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Post by 185_guy » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:31 am

Is this air tractor in question a 2 seater? lots of room for hoses etc.....
Heard you have to wear a fireproof flight suit, not that it would help ya.....and be able to bail out if it!! :shock:
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Post by Flybabe » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:27 pm

Doc wrote:It IS a new concept.....for Canada.
I guess I'm delusional then, cause I SWEAR I saw (and spoke with the drivers OF) Canadian registered A.T.'s ACTIVELY involved in a fuel haul in Thompson, MB in 1998.

Someone else who was there please step in and concur, here. Bronson? You out there? You were there.

So... there! :P LOL
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Post by bkn4thr » Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:16 pm

Flybabe, I don't know about 1998 but I believe last year A At802f (dual seat) flew fuel north bound out of CYTH for Perimeter. The Aircraft actually belongs to three Manitoba sprayers and the reg is C-GEDR. Also a note that they haul more than 800 us gal. I believe they have 240 gal wing tanks that they also drain some fuel out of.
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Post by Doc » Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:27 pm

The tankers you saw in 1998 were working with a "letter of permission" from TC because of the very poor winter roads that year in northern Man and Ont. This is not a regular gig.
They even had 206's flying in jerry cans!
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Post by Flybabe » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:03 pm

SO, Doc.... what you're saying, in short form, is...

It's not a new concept?

:)

Thanks Bkn
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Post by Beaver Driver » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:57 am

I'm sure it's not a new concept. Doing it legally, now that's a new concept.

Last time I looked at the TDG Regs you couldn't haul fuel in an aircraft in any container larger than 230 litres. There may be something in there to allow using a spray plane to haul fuel, but I don't really care enough about this debate to actually look it up.

I'm sure if someone wanted to wade through the quagmire of red tape, they could make it happen, but then you would still have a $2 million aircraft to pay for.

Anything is possible.
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Post by Water off » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:29 pm

Beaver Driver is right (legally). The AT802 to date is only certified for ferry fuel in the tank. The fuel hauling done in 98 was on a permit but the aircraft is not certified for it. The WN machine will be 1000 gallons. No pumps.
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Post by ODA » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:25 am

When we haul bulk fuel the tank can only be 80% full to allow for expansion. That might cut down on the hopper payload.
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Post by 1000 HP » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:29 pm

Best way to answer all the questions is to go fly it :D It sounds like fun. I wonder if they make a nomex parachute? :shock:
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Post by 100LL » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:58 pm

Last time I looked at the TDG Regs you couldn't haul fuel in an aircraft in any container larger than 230 litres.
My guess is that you looked at the IATA regs. If you are flying within Canada to a location not serviced by road you will find some exceptions.
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Post by Rudy » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:59 pm

Well if the natives barracade the winter road to Victor Camp there will be more fuel hauling work than we can imagine.

PS. Has anyone been offered the job? Anyone know what kind of experience they want?
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Post by Oil Burner » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:53 pm

They would like lots of tailwheel time, turbine time, and bush time. No crashes are an asset as well. :D It sounds like a fantastic job, no passengers, no freight, and free nomex :lol:
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Re: Wilderness North Air Tractor

Post by carholme » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:16 pm

Apparently the latest is Wilderness North have their fuel tanks set up at Red Lake and were to start flying but have had to remove their engine for repair. As you will see from the link to Conair where the modifcations were done, this a/c will be flying with 1000 gals of tanker fuel, The interesting thing is that they are going to operate day and night VFR to northern reserves. The night VFR should prove to be quite interesting. Would be interested to see how many takers there will be for the night trips.

http://www.airtractor.com/at-802-bulk-fuel-tanker

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Re: Wilderness North Air Tractor

Post by Blue Side Down » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:06 pm

It's threads like these that remind me why I come to avcanada for entertainment-

...this page's midsection about had me on the floor :lol: Nicely proved Flybabe
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Re: Wilderness North Air Tractor

Post by PA-18 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:33 pm

Wilderness North is operating the air tractor out of red. I'm pretty sure there going up to fort hope alot .They have had it for a year now I think and it operates on wheels.
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