You know I can't let it go like that. It would do no honour to the pilot who did everything in his power to keep his passengers safe, and was in turn posthumously accused of being a bad pilot and flying into the ocean because of HIS lack of care. He, his passengers and all the future pilots and passengers deserve better.
My future does not depend on Transport Canada's approval of me, and I have no misguided loyalty to them.
Transport Canada’s Values and Ethics Initiative
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Cat Driver says. . ..
"Theman is a typical example of some of the reasons that we have a disfunctional regulator, he without any obvious knowlege of the facts of these issues just assumes that everyone who is bullied and destroyed by the regulator must be guilty of wrong doing.
I get so God Dammned fed up with this head buried in the sand attitude by so many in aviation that I fell like just quitting and hope they some day fall victim to thugs like Preuss and Nowzek "
Has it ever occurred to Cat that in his own way he sounds like the people he lambastes. .. . do we dare post something that might offend the mighty Cat. . .lest he dismisses us as ignorant and typical. . . .I do not defend Preuss or Nowzek, I merely point out that TC is not Preuss and Nowzek.
Court action for wrongs are expensive I grant that, but perhaps action through MPs, ombudsmen etc are also options. . . . . or then again I do not possess all the facts so I am probably speaking out of turn. . . .
What makes the mighty Cat so right that perusers of avcanada must accept his word as the voice of experience. . . he has his own jaundiced views and reminds me of a "set-in-his-ways" old timer. . . .do it my way or else. . . .if you are not with us you are against us. . . etc
Your voice Cat is one of the reasons that others get tired . . . . .
My ilk says get with the program. . . .any program. . . .stop listening to the little voices. . . . .
"Theman is a typical example of some of the reasons that we have a disfunctional regulator, he without any obvious knowlege of the facts of these issues just assumes that everyone who is bullied and destroyed by the regulator must be guilty of wrong doing.
I get so God Dammned fed up with this head buried in the sand attitude by so many in aviation that I fell like just quitting and hope they some day fall victim to thugs like Preuss and Nowzek "
Has it ever occurred to Cat that in his own way he sounds like the people he lambastes. .. . do we dare post something that might offend the mighty Cat. . .lest he dismisses us as ignorant and typical. . . .I do not defend Preuss or Nowzek, I merely point out that TC is not Preuss and Nowzek.Court action for wrongs are expensive I grant that, but perhaps action through MPs, ombudsmen etc are also options. . . . . or then again I do not possess all the facts so I am probably speaking out of turn. . . .
What makes the mighty Cat so right that perusers of avcanada must accept his word as the voice of experience. . . he has his own jaundiced views and reminds me of a "set-in-his-ways" old timer. . . .do it my way or else. . . .if you are not with us you are against us. . . etc
Your voice Cat is one of the reasons that others get tired . . . . .
My ilk says get with the program. . . .any program. . . .stop listening to the little voices. . . . .
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Theman:
Once again, I have gone through every avenue avaliable....
....in the end I won the admission from TC that they had been in contrevention of the law.
I quite frankly am not all that concerned what you think as you admit you don't know the facts involved.
Nowzek is the Regional director TCCA, pacific Region, they both were found guilty of denying me due process under law.....
...go look that up and contemplate on what it means.
Preuss and Nowzek are TC in that they hold the top positions of power in TCCA, therefore to any logical thinking person they " ARE " TCCA.
Anyhow you and I have nothing left to discuss so lets just agree to disagree.
. E.
Once again, I have gone through every avenue avaliable....
....in the end I won the admission from TC that they had been in contrevention of the law.
I quite frankly am not all that concerned what you think as you admit you don't know the facts involved.
Preuss is the Director General Civil Aviation.I do not defend Preuss or Nowzek, I merely point out that TC is not Preuss and Nowzek.
Nowzek is the Regional director TCCA, pacific Region, they both were found guilty of denying me due process under law.....
...go look that up and contemplate on what it means.
Preuss and Nowzek are TC in that they hold the top positions of power in TCCA, therefore to any logical thinking person they " ARE " TCCA.
Anyhow you and I have nothing left to discuss so lets just agree to disagree.
. E.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Snaproll wrote:
[/quote]At this time, there have been 400 views of this post and 17 actual posts.
Widow 3, Cat Driver 5 and Hedley 3.
So, subtracting 8 posts, we have a ratio of 9 to 400 regarding active involvement.
Since it is a genuinely serious topic, I have to assume that only 1 in 45 people are interested in seeing honesty in our Industry.
The rest, apparently, are content to stand by and watch their chosen profession slide into the toilet.
Sad.
[quote]
Interesting post..Did you notice that FBO hottie of the year got 16,000 hits
and over 100 responses.
Compare the two. I think you will get an idea of the typical poster's interest in aviation.
For the most part, the newcomers (and there are a lot according to the experience poll) have been indoctrinated both as Canadians, and a new pilots to believe in TC. They are not bothered by the continous bleating of safety good...we are one of the best in the world...blah blah blah.
They dont see that things like SMS are half-baked plans being sold to us
constantly through a barrage of safety letters, cartoons etc. And soon we will see regulations and then enforcement. They will learn, not from the experiences of those who have been there but by their own experiences with TC, And they will be a lone voice fighting against a beaucracy intent on crushing those who dare to speak out against it. One only has to see how things of changed. Some guys make a video of themselves doing a dust up or a roll in a citation or whatnot. Years ago we all knew how stupid and dangerous those things were but we could still see them as neat. Now, when someone posts things like that, comments refer to CARS and breaking the laws and....I better quit at this point.
I am afraid, snapperster, that while we may be optimistic, little will change and we should expect the one liner posters to allow TC to continue.
Just to balance this rant...I have not had coffee this morning .
[/quote]At this time, there have been 400 views of this post and 17 actual posts.
Widow 3, Cat Driver 5 and Hedley 3.
So, subtracting 8 posts, we have a ratio of 9 to 400 regarding active involvement.
Since it is a genuinely serious topic, I have to assume that only 1 in 45 people are interested in seeing honesty in our Industry.
The rest, apparently, are content to stand by and watch their chosen profession slide into the toilet.
Sad.
[quote]
Interesting post..Did you notice that FBO hottie of the year got 16,000 hits
and over 100 responses.
Compare the two. I think you will get an idea of the typical poster's interest in aviation.
For the most part, the newcomers (and there are a lot according to the experience poll) have been indoctrinated both as Canadians, and a new pilots to believe in TC. They are not bothered by the continous bleating of safety good...we are one of the best in the world...blah blah blah.
They dont see that things like SMS are half-baked plans being sold to us
constantly through a barrage of safety letters, cartoons etc. And soon we will see regulations and then enforcement. They will learn, not from the experiences of those who have been there but by their own experiences with TC, And they will be a lone voice fighting against a beaucracy intent on crushing those who dare to speak out against it. One only has to see how things of changed. Some guys make a video of themselves doing a dust up or a roll in a citation or whatnot. Years ago we all knew how stupid and dangerous those things were but we could still see them as neat. Now, when someone posts things like that, comments refer to CARS and breaking the laws and....I better quit at this point.
I am afraid, snapperster, that while we may be optimistic, little will change and we should expect the one liner posters to allow TC to continue.
Just to balance this rant...I have not had coffee this morning .
I think people are forgetting a fairly large group of people: those that have never had a negative experience with TC.trey kule wrote:...Since it is a genuinely serious topic, I have to assume that only 1 in 45 people are interested in seeing honesty in our Industry.
The rest, apparently, are content to stand by and watch their chosen profession slide into the toilet...
Some in the industry have a good, positive working relationship with their inspectors. They have not had (at least not to-date) any 'run-ins', and so watch all of your debate with an interest, but don't really have any fuel to add to your fire.
Heck, even Cat has freely admitted in numerous posts, that he played by the rules and got along well with Transport for many years .... right up until the incident that turned that relationship in the opposite direction. Haven't you given any thought to the fact that many of us have not had the same experiences? And that those people may prefer to maintain that positive relationship, rather than get dragged into the mud along with you?
Let's use a non-aviation example: Say you worked in a business that had things delivered to you every day by a courier. Let's also say that you're the shipper, or whoever deals with the delivery guy. You say "hello" every day, chat about sports or current events whenever he drops in - maybe even have a quick coffee break together on a 'slow' business day.
Now, if you started saying to this guy "hey, hows it going. by the way, your company sucks and your supervisor is a jack ass". How many times would you have to say this before you started getting broken things in your shipments, and have packages 'lost'?
Sometimes, if YOUR experiences with a group are not bad, then even if you fully believe others negative stories, you still have no personal motivation to rock the boat.
Edit: p.s. And Cat, before you say it... I know (and appreciate) your position that those of us who have not had any problems should still 'watch our back', because the relationship can turn without warning. You and I have discussed this before, about a year ago. And I do appreciate the need to keep ones eyes & ears open.
Cheers,
Brew
Brew
-
desksgo
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2850
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:05 pm
- Location: Toy Poodle Town, Manitoba
- Contact:
That about sums it up perfectly right there, spot on, Neil.neilblythin wrote:I think people are forgetting a fairly large group of people: those that have never had a negative experience with TC.trey kule wrote:...Since it is a genuinely serious topic, I have to assume that only 1 in 45 people are interested in seeing honesty in our Industry.
The rest, apparently, are content to stand by and watch their chosen profession slide into the toilet...
Some in the industry have a good, positive working relationship with their inspectors. They have not had (at least not to-date) any 'run-ins', and so watch all of your debate with an interest, but don't really have any fuel to add to your fire.
Heck, even Cat has freely admitted in numerous posts, that he played by the rules and got along well with Transport for many years .... right up until the incident that turned that relationship in the opposite direction. Haven't you given any thought to the fact that many of us have not had the same experiences? And that those people may prefer to maintain that positive relationship, rather than get dragged into the mud along with you?
Let's use a non-aviation example: Say you worked in a business that had things delivered to you every day by a courier. Let's also say that you're the shipper, or whoever deals with the delivery guy. You say "hello" every day, chat about sports or current events whenever he drops in - maybe even have a quick coffee break together on a 'slow' business day.
Now, if you started saying to this guy "hey, hows it going. by the way, your company sucks and your supervisor is a jack ass". How many times would you have to say this before you started getting broken things in your shipments, and have packages 'lost'?
Sometimes, if YOUR experiences with a group are not bad, then even if you fully believe others negative stories, you still have no personal motivation to rock the boat.
Edit: p.s. And Cat, before you say it... I know (and appreciate) your position that those of us who have not had any problems should still 'watch our back', because the relationship can turn without warning. You and I have discussed this before, about a year ago. And I do appreciate the need to keep ones eyes & ears open.
Neilblythin, Desksgo.
Actually, I did not make that quote. I was quoting snaproll.
But your point is taken, and it may be a good one. On the other hand I have, over the years spoken with many many operators and I dont recall very many of them speaking fondly of their experiences with TC. In fact, most of them were under the very real feeling that to speak out against TC, regardless of right or wrong, was corporate or personal suicide.
And, as I have stated before, I have had some very positive experiences with TC, but none of them involved me questioning TC in any way.
The problem is if you put a cup of crap in a barrel of fine wine ....you still have crap. Same with organizations. One of the main problems is that TC protects those types within their organization instead of dealing with them appropriately. I think if they would just do that 95% of the problems with TC would go away...oh that and a good course on ethics and the Charter of Rights for the enforcement people rather than a course on bullying 101 taught by loser Ex-RCMP types, who could not make it in their own force.....(not that that is whats happening of course.)
Actually, I did not make that quote. I was quoting snaproll.
But your point is taken, and it may be a good one. On the other hand I have, over the years spoken with many many operators and I dont recall very many of them speaking fondly of their experiences with TC. In fact, most of them were under the very real feeling that to speak out against TC, regardless of right or wrong, was corporate or personal suicide.
And, as I have stated before, I have had some very positive experiences with TC, but none of them involved me questioning TC in any way.
The problem is if you put a cup of crap in a barrel of fine wine ....you still have crap. Same with organizations. One of the main problems is that TC protects those types within their organization instead of dealing with them appropriately. I think if they would just do that 95% of the problems with TC would go away...oh that and a good course on ethics and the Charter of Rights for the enforcement people rather than a course on bullying 101 taught by loser Ex-RCMP types, who could not make it in their own force.....(not that that is whats happening of course.)
Neilblythin, Desksgo.
Actually, I did not make that quote. I was quoting snaproll.
But your point is taken, and it may be a good one. On the other hand I have, over the years spoken with many many operators and I dont recall very many of them speaking fondly of their experiences with TC. In fact, most of them were under the very real feeling that to speak out against TC, regardless of right or wrong, was corporate or personal suicide.
And, as I have stated before, I have had some very positive experiences with TC, but none of them involved me questioning TC in any way.
The problem is if you put a cup of crap in a barrel of fine wine ....you still have crap. Same with organizations. One of the main problems is that TC protects those types within their organization instead of dealing with them appropriately. I think if they would just do that 95% of the problems with TC would go away...oh that and a good course on ethics and the Charter of Rights for the enforcement people rather than a course on bullying 101 taught by loser Ex-RCMP types, who could not make it in their own force.....(not that that is whats happening of course.)
Actually, I did not make that quote. I was quoting snaproll.
But your point is taken, and it may be a good one. On the other hand I have, over the years spoken with many many operators and I dont recall very many of them speaking fondly of their experiences with TC. In fact, most of them were under the very real feeling that to speak out against TC, regardless of right or wrong, was corporate or personal suicide.
And, as I have stated before, I have had some very positive experiences with TC, but none of them involved me questioning TC in any way.
The problem is if you put a cup of crap in a barrel of fine wine ....you still have crap. Same with organizations. One of the main problems is that TC protects those types within their organization instead of dealing with them appropriately. I think if they would just do that 95% of the problems with TC would go away...oh that and a good course on ethics and the Charter of Rights for the enforcement people rather than a course on bullying 101 taught by loser Ex-RCMP types, who could not make it in their own force.....(not that that is whats happening of course.)
