logging hood time

rogerthis · Post by **rogerthis** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:43 pm

I am a private pilot and want to do my IFR. Can I log some hood tiem and take a commercial or priate pilot with me.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:15 pm

(9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence and have:

(a) an instrument rating; and either

(b) a flight instructor rating; or

(c) experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, and:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

Go to the TC website, and search the CARs, your answers will be there. This one's for free.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:18 pm

You can take a licenced pilot with you and practise Instrument but you cannot log it as hood time, unless the pilot has the following:

CARs section 425.21(9);

9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence and have:

(a) an instrument rating; and either

(b) a flight instructor rating; or

(c) experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, and:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

Hope this helps

Lurch

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:19 pm

Bob you beat me to it

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:20 pm

by 3 minutes.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:26 pm

Took my a few minutes to find the referance in CARs, they change their site every six months then it takes 3 just to get used to it again.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:27 pm

Yeah I had to dig around to find the damn thing.

Aeros · Post by **Aeros** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:10 pm

Lurch wrote:You can take a licenced pilot with you and practise Instrument but you cannot log it as hood time, unless the pilot has the following:

CARs section 425.21(9);

That statement is not strictly true.

If you are interested in obtaining your Instrument Rating you don't need to get all of the hood time from someone that is qualified as per CAR 425.21(9) -- you only need to get 15 of the 40 hours from that "kind" of person.

You can do exactly what you are asking -- use any other person as safety pilot. You just have to make sure that you log at least 15 hours of hood time from someone that has the experience outlined in earlier responses. (You also need to make sure that you get five hours of instrument time from someone that holds a Flight Instructor Rating -- in most cases, the time for your PPL will be enough, unless you got it before the instrument time was required to get a PPL.)

CAR 421.46 (Experience requirements for the Instrument Rating):

(ii) 40 hours of instrument time of which a maximum of 20 hours may be instrument ground time. The 40 hours instrument time shall include a minimum of:

(A) 5 hours of dual instrument flight time acquired from the holder of a flight instructor rating ,

(B) 5 hours in aeroplanes where the applicant is applying for a Group 1, 2 or 3 instrument rating or in helicopters where the applicant is applying for a Group 4 instrument rating,

(C) Fifteen (15) hours of dual instrument flight time provided by a qualified person as specified in section 425.21(9); and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(D) one dual cross-country flight under simulated or actual IMC conditions of a minimum of 100 nautical miles, the flight to be conducted in accordance with an IFR flight plan to include at, two different locations, an instrument approach to minima.

Bottom line -- the short answer to your question is ABSOLUTELY.

BTD · Post by **BTD** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:23 pm

bob sacamano wrote:(9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence and have:

(a) an instrument rating; and either

(b) a flight instructor rating; or

(c) experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, and:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

Go to the TC website, and search the CARs, your answers will be there. This one's for free.

Going back to this. I am pretty sure that you have to have either the instructor rating or the outlined requirements 500 etc... the 5 hrs instructor/15 instrument rating are minimums.

This car reference means all 40 of the hrs credited towards the IFR.

BTD

Aeros · Post by **Aeros** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:08 am

In order to obtain an Instrument Rating you need to acquire a bunch of things:
a) knowledge;
b) experience;
c) training; and
d) skill.

All of these requirements are outlined in CAR 421.46.

The knowledge can be obtained in a couple of ways -- by yourself, reading material like the AIM and the Instrument Procedures Manual or it could be done through a ground school programme. Transport Canada doesn't care what method you use as long as you pass the INRAT exam. The skill requirement is addressed through the Flight Test.

The experience is gained in a couple of ways -- some of it is acquired on your own and some of it is gained through training. Again, these are all spelled out in 421.46:

(b) Experience

An applicant shall have completed a minimum of:

(i) 50 hours of cross-country flight as pilot-in-command in aeroplanes or helicopters of which 10 hours must be in the appropriate category; and

(ii) 40 hours of instrument time of which a maximum of 20 hours may be instrument ground time. The 40 hours instrument time shall include a minimum of:

(A) 5 hours of dual instrument flight time acquired from the holder of a flight instructor rating ,

(B) 5 hours in aeroplanes where the applicant is applying for a Group 1, 2 or 3 instrument rating or in helicopters where the applicant is applying for a Group 4 instrument rating,

(C) Fifteen (15) hours of dual instrument flight time provided by a qualified person as specified in section 425.21(9); and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(D) one dual cross-country flight under simulated or actual IMC conditions of a minimum of 100 nautical miles, the flight to be conducted in accordance with an IFR flight plan to include at, two different locations, an instrument approach to minima.

Clearly, the 50 hours PIC Cross-Country is acquired on your own. You also need to have a bunch (40 hours) of instrument time. If you read the article carefully you will notice that only some of this time needs to be dual time. The rest of the time can be acquired through other methods. Namely, with any old safety pilot. The only actual training that is required is the stuff identified as "dual". These are:
a) the five hours from a Flight Instructor;
b) the 15 hours from someone qualified in accordance with 425.21(9); and
c) the 100 NM cross-country flight.

If you are trying to meet any of those three requirements then you need to make sure that they are completed with either a Flight Instructor for a) or with someone that meets the requirements outlined by either Lurch or Bob Sacamano earlier.

425.21 talks about someone that is conducting training towards and Instrument Rating. You do need some training to get an Instrument Rating but you don't need 40 hours or training.

I'm not trying to say that this is the best way to go about doing it -- I'm just saying that it is legal to do what you are proposing.

Take this example:

Person walks off the street and earns their PPL. They do this by flying with an Instructor that does not hold and Instrument Rating. In this process they acquire 5.0 hours of hood time.

The person then moves on to get their CPL. Again, this person flies with a Flight Instructor that does not hold and Instrument Rating. In the process of earning their CPL, this pilot obtains an additional 20.0 hours of hood time. (Let's assume that while building time for the CPL, this pilot also gets at least 50 hours PIC X/C.)

The candidate now has a grand total of 25.0 hours of hood time.

The pilot now decides that he wants to earn an Instrument Rating. He decides to talk to his buddy, an airline pilot that does not hold an Instructor Rating, and convinces him to provide the training for his Instrument Rating.

Our candidate already has:
a) a total of 25.0 hours instrument time; and
b) at least 5.0 hours of instrument time provided by the holder of a Flight Instructor Rating.

All this person needs to do with his Airline Pilot buddy is get an additional 15.0 hours of instrument time (which will include the Cross-Country flight), pass the INRAT and then go do his Flight Test.

(The above example would also work if you replace the Airline pilot friend with an Instructor that holds an Instrument Rating. You could get both your PPL and CPL from a non-instrument rated Instructor and then you still only need 15 hours of hood time with an Instrument Rated instructor to get the Instrument Rating.)

youngflier · Post by **youngflier** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:10 pm

owned again..