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Cat Driver
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On the flip side I know of a guy who actually flew 1000 hours on a float plane that he never had certified in his logbook. Since then he has been unable to find his old employer and the plane plus it's books were sold to a company in South America.
He has been turned down for two separate jobs because his logbook is not certified.
He has been turned down for two separate jobs because his logbook is not certified.
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Cat Driver
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Lommer, widow is asking serious questions to try and get some answers as to why her husband died in an airplane accident." G5, can you share some of your fishing tricks, it seems like you're getting even the big ones to bite. "
Fishing for responses to stupid posts should be kept in some less serious descussion.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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. ._
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This is a good thread. Especially for the folks starting in the biz.
I applied for a dock job and had a minimal resume that I whipped up the night before.
It was like this:
ISTP
(address and phone number)
250TT
15 float
The last 3 places of employment.
3 references.
That's it. The owner gave me beer, sent me on my way and said more or less, "Come back when you have 50 float and I'll look at your resume."
A really nice guy.
And I might just go back there.
Bottom line is that I lowballed my times on the resume to nice round numbers. Who gives a farthing whether I had 16.1 on floats, right?
I can stand by my logbook. Funny comments and all.
This is where we should reflect on the old addage brought back to us by the Duke anecdotally when he posted on 2003-05-22.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... r+man+duke
Good stuff.
-istp
I applied for a dock job and had a minimal resume that I whipped up the night before.
It was like this:
ISTP
(address and phone number)
250TT
15 float
The last 3 places of employment.
3 references.
That's it. The owner gave me beer, sent me on my way and said more or less, "Come back when you have 50 float and I'll look at your resume."
A really nice guy.
And I might just go back there.
Bottom line is that I lowballed my times on the resume to nice round numbers. Who gives a farthing whether I had 16.1 on floats, right?
I can stand by my logbook. Funny comments and all.
This is where we should reflect on the old addage brought back to us by the Duke anecdotally when he posted on 2003-05-22.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... r+man+duke
Good stuff.
-istp
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electraguy
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hey cat
Cat,
Ya i have heard "rumors" of people doing it in the past, saying that the industry owed them those hours, i don't believe in it, for any reason, if you gotta pad your log book maybe you better take a look at what your doing in the industry. I know why Widow is asking questions, but what happend to her has nothing to do with this thread. Her situation has many angles, but I don;t think the pilots time was in question. From what i read that fella got the plane down, but nobody went too look for them, thats the real crime in her situation. I understand where she is coming from, but looking for devil in everything we do in aviation is startin to bother me a bit. I agree there are some un-ethical operators out there, but not everyone is flying on the unsafe side of the fence. I also agree that some changes need to be made within TC, but hacking constantly on the industry is not going to gain support from aviation people. Just a thought.
Ya i have heard "rumors" of people doing it in the past, saying that the industry owed them those hours, i don't believe in it, for any reason, if you gotta pad your log book maybe you better take a look at what your doing in the industry. I know why Widow is asking questions, but what happend to her has nothing to do with this thread. Her situation has many angles, but I don;t think the pilots time was in question. From what i read that fella got the plane down, but nobody went too look for them, thats the real crime in her situation. I understand where she is coming from, but looking for devil in everything we do in aviation is startin to bother me a bit. I agree there are some un-ethical operators out there, but not everyone is flying on the unsafe side of the fence. I also agree that some changes need to be made within TC, but hacking constantly on the industry is not going to gain support from aviation people. Just a thought.
Last edited by electraguy on Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Son, Your gonna have to make your mind up about growing up and becoming a pilot.. You can't do both!!
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Dust Devil
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Re: hey cat
I can see some truth to this post.electraguy wrote:Cat,
Y ai have heard "rumors" of people doing it in the past, saying that the idustry owed them those hours, i don't believe in it, for any reason, if you gotta pad your log book maybe you better take a look at what your doing in the industry. I know why Widow is asking questions, but what happend to her has nothing to do with this thread. Her situation has many angles, but I don;t think the pilots time was in question. From what i read that fella got the plane down, but nobody went too look for them, thats the real crime in her situation. I understand where she is coming from, but looking for devil in everything we do in aviation is startin to bother me a bit. I agree there are some un-ethical operators out there, but not everyone is flying on the unsafe side of the fence. I also agree that some changes need to be made within TC, but hacking constantly on the industry is not going to gain support from aviation people. Just a thought.
//=S=//
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
I certainly apologize for giving the impression of "hacking constantly on the industry". You are absolutely right, the accident pilot in our case had plenty of hours and type. However, having taken it upon myself to try to better understand the charter industry and change it for the better, it falls to necessity that things like pilot training and log books - pilot and maintenance log books - should be of importance.
I can't, and won't, go around criticizing Transport Canada without being aware of some of the unethical practices of the pilots, operators, ame, etc. If I expect to defend my position to the officials, I need to have as much knowledge as possible. That includes the knowledge gleaned from this kind of thread.
Edited to add: Perhaps there is something lacking in training such that anyone in the industry would think it is ok to falisify documents. Just a thought.
I can't, and won't, go around criticizing Transport Canada without being aware of some of the unethical practices of the pilots, operators, ame, etc. If I expect to defend my position to the officials, I need to have as much knowledge as possible. That includes the knowledge gleaned from this kind of thread.
Edited to add: Perhaps there is something lacking in training such that anyone in the industry would think it is ok to falisify documents. Just a thought.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
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co-joe
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There is little of a difference? What does that mean?bob sacamano wrote:between 250 and 500, there is little of a difference. Once you're being checked out on the airplane, a good pilot will know the difference and the level that you're at.
Bob I hope I misunderstand you. To me the is a Freeking HUGE difference between the skills of a pilot with 250 hours and one with 500 hours. At 250 total time you have a license to learn.
I know that's what I still have. When did you stop learning?co-joe wrote:At 250 total time you have a license to learn.
G5, not everyone shares your work ethics/fishing abilities. I just hope that the newcomers to the industry won't see your remark as something that is common practice or even remotely acceptable. It's just not.
Oh and by the way, hello all, I've been a lurker on this site for a while (well, a couple years anyway) and I just decided to not be transparent anymore.
No Brakes
"Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground and miss." Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
"Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground and miss." Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
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electraguy
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widow
No i don;t think its a lack of training, I think its a lack of ethics on those pilots who do faulsify there log books, they know its wrong yet choose to do it anyways. You can learn alot about aviation from reading this site, but the only way is too get out there and experience it first hand. I know that you are trying to make changes and I applaud you for that effort, but aloy of the knowledge you seek you would have to go out and experience first hand. Its easy to sit on the sidelines and critisize the operators, pilots, AME's etc but until you have seen the industry from our side you can't really know what its all about. I am sure that any of us in the industry would be happy to give you info on what we do, but with all the negativty floating around on this site I would not take all you read here as the gospel. I think the aviators in Canada could use a pat on the back now and then, pilots, AME's, the sweat and blood of this industry who work so hard to keep them in the sky. My hats off to all of us who keep Canada in the air! I have done some research on the FAA and some of the other countrys regulatory bodies for aviation, people might not like TC bit consider the alternatives!! Just some more thoughts!
And if you stop learning in this industry its because your retired or dead!
We all rememebr, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots
And if you stop learning in this industry its because your retired or dead!
We all rememebr, there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots
Son, Your gonna have to make your mind up about growing up and becoming a pilot.. You can't do both!!
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Cat Driver
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I think we should have a more clear examination of the above statement." My hats off to all of us who keep Canada in the air! I have done some research on the FAA and some of the other countrys regulatory bodies for aviation, people might not like TC bit consider the alternatives!! Just some more thoughts! "
I have spent decades working in other countries and hold authorizations to fly under CASA / SACAA / FAA / JAR-JAA and would be interested in examining how your research compares to what I observed.
Or have you been reading Merlin Preuss to much?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Sadly, for those lacking integrity no amount of 'training' will stop them from flasifying their logbook.Widow wrote:... Perhaps there is something lacking in training such that anyone in the industry would think it is ok to falisify documents. Just a thought.
For me the primary reason I have never, nor will ever, falsify my logbook: When I look in the mirror I know I have been honest with myself.
It seems there is a general lack of integrty/ethics in society today which is illustrated by G5's comments.
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electraguy
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system
Cat,
Each body has its ups and downs. When i speak of the FAA its more on the maint side than the flying side, there regs are less stringent than TC's is many ways, but they do have some better parts too. I am talking about some of the systems elsewhere in the world. Ever had any dealings with the transport mnistry from India for instance?? I have heard plenty of storys from folks from that system talking about bribes and alot of other un ethical dealings that keep there people flying, some pretty scary stuff.
Each body has its ups and downs. When i speak of the FAA its more on the maint side than the flying side, there regs are less stringent than TC's is many ways, but they do have some better parts too. I am talking about some of the systems elsewhere in the world. Ever had any dealings with the transport mnistry from India for instance?? I have heard plenty of storys from folks from that system talking about bribes and alot of other un ethical dealings that keep there people flying, some pretty scary stuff.
Son, Your gonna have to make your mind up about growing up and becoming a pilot.. You can't do both!!
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Cat Driver
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No I have never had any dealings with India.
However I have spent enough money on bribes in other countries that I can't even remember them all.
Do you suggest that the aviation community use these countries as a benchmark for intregrity at TCCA?
In that case lets get it going right now because I'd far rather bribe a dishonest TC inspector and continue to work safely following the rules that ensure safety than deal with thugs that are dishonest but get paid enough they don't have to take bribes just to survive like a lot of other countries where we work.....as mechanics and pilots.
So my vote goes to bribes rather than power trippers protected by a system that is far worse in my opinion than officials taking bribes because their pay is so low.
Just my take on this having worked in both cultures.
Cat
However I have spent enough money on bribes in other countries that I can't even remember them all.
Do you suggest that the aviation community use these countries as a benchmark for intregrity at TCCA?
In that case lets get it going right now because I'd far rather bribe a dishonest TC inspector and continue to work safely following the rules that ensure safety than deal with thugs that are dishonest but get paid enough they don't have to take bribes just to survive like a lot of other countries where we work.....as mechanics and pilots.
So my vote goes to bribes rather than power trippers protected by a system that is far worse in my opinion than officials taking bribes because their pay is so low.
Just my take on this having worked in both cultures.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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electraguy
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- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:33 pm
bribes
Well as easy as that would be, I think I am too poor yet to really offer a bribe of any consequence. No I would not want to use the other systems as a benchmark, just pointing else what else is out there. TC is not the best, but they are not the worst either. I just wish there were more TC inspectors in it for the right reason. Once again, its a civil service job, that arrogance and attitude of entitlment lives well within the TC walls. We all hope for change, but till it comes we gotta play the game.
Son, Your gonna have to make your mind up about growing up and becoming a pilot.. You can't do both!!
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Cat Driver
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Very true, because if you don't play the game their way you will get the bat up your ass." but till it comes we gotta play the game."
Sad but true.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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electraguy
- Rank 4
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:33 pm
G5
A thought came to me regarding G5's comment about fudging times. Here is a situation for you G5. Now lets just say for instance you flying say a cessna caravan, one of those airplanes that only flys on one hope(engine) and I am the AME working on your plane. Now, in my logbook I have put down that I have been trained on the Pratt and Whitney PT-6 course. Truth is, I have not, but i needed that prerequisite to get this job so I put it in my log book and my employer took my word. So, now I am working on the plane that YOU and your passengers are about to fly on into wx, mountains, whatever. See where i am going with this? Now, you get to strap your ass in that plane and go flying, even though the person who just buttoned up that cowl had not had the training or experience to work on that engine. Something goes terribly wrong....
That should put the padding logic into perspective for you, whats good for the goose is good for the gander?? I think not. Honestly for anyone out there who has done it, I hope you get caught.
That should put the padding logic into perspective for you, whats good for the goose is good for the gander?? I think not. Honestly for anyone out there who has done it, I hope you get caught.
Son, Your gonna have to make your mind up about growing up and becoming a pilot.. You can't do both!!
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Double Wasp
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I think I've said this before. If you are padding you book then you would have to pad the journey log to make the lie complete. I am sure after awhile your employer would get pissed if he is paying for time regulated maintenance that the log says it is due for, while after some flight/air time calculations the hobbs meter tells him otherwise.
Whoa guys I guess my fishing comment didn't get interpreted as I'd hoped. I'm not personally interested in trolling at all, I'm was just trying to point out that I think G5's comment was trolling to get a reaction and nothing more - absolutely no substance. There's no point wasting our breath on crap like that.
I know of at least one person that pads; .3 for taxi, .1 flights become .5 two, very private logbooks etc.
I KNOW it is padded by simple math; years working and for which companies, his ACTUAL flying ablities.
Flying is easy which makes errors standout but that aside, I'd rather hire ATTITUDE than experience, the first will always dictate how the other will progress.
I hope that those that hire have the balls to fire, and report.
I KNOW it is padded by simple math; years working and for which companies, his ACTUAL flying ablities.
Flying is easy which makes errors standout but that aside, I'd rather hire ATTITUDE than experience, the first will always dictate how the other will progress.
I hope that those that hire have the balls to fire, and report.
I heard the greatest story once about a guy who was going after his Commerical I believe and didn't have the all PIC time. He knew about a plane at an FBO that he thought never moved and put the callsign in his logbook as a plane he flew around as PIC. The Transport examiner who was doing his flight test was looking through his logbook and asked him about the registration and flights in that plane. The applicant said that he had rented it for 50 hours to build some time. The examiner told him that it was his plane.
IIRC it was one of the aircraft TC happened to be leasing..Lima Lima wrote:I heard the greatest story once about a guy who was going after his Commerical I believe and didn't have the all PIC time. He knew about a plane at an FBO that he thought never moved and put the callsign in his logbook as a plane he flew around as PIC. The Transport examiner who was doing his flight test was looking through his logbook and asked him about the registration and flights in that plane. The applicant said that he had rented it for 50 hours to build some time. The examiner told him that it was his plane.
