7F B757?

CYOX · Post by **CYOX** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:36 am

I heard that First Air is going to recieve a 757 soon, which makes sense as they are laying off 727 crew (flight engineers). Also it looks like all the 27's are on the market.

iwannasoar · Post by **iwannasoar** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:16 am

Here we go again!

hamstandard · Post by **hamstandard** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:34 pm

27's for along time yet. 57's...too expensive to purchase. No one being laid off.

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:41 pm

I don't want to get into this debate at all. A simple question, though:
At some point in time it must become cheaper to pony up and buy new a/c, no? Surely the fuel and maint costs of running a dinosaur like the '27 must begin to outweigh the price of a newer model?

Troubleshot · Post by **Troubleshot** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:15 pm

North Shore wrote:I don't want to get into this debate at all. A simple question, though:
At some point in time it must become cheaper to pony up and buy new a/c, no? Surely the fuel and maint costs of running a dinosaur like the '27 must begin to outweigh the price of a newer model?

I would venture to say the the 757 price is staggering comparied to the 727 price (maintenance and fuel included)

As long as you can get JT8D's the 727 aircraft will be around. If there was no market for the 757 and there was an abundance of them I'd agree with you...but the 757 price is at a premium right now due to high demand for this great jet.

Human Factor · Post by **Human Factor** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:10 pm

Troubleshot wrote:
North Shore wrote:I don't want to get into this debate at all. A simple question, though:
At some point in time it must become cheaper to pony up and buy new a/c, no? Surely the fuel and maint costs of running a dinosaur like the '27 must begin to outweigh the price of a newer model?
I would venture to say the the 757 price is staggering comparied to the 727 price (maintenance and fuel included)

As long as you can get JT8D's the 727 aircraft will be around. If there was no market for the 757 and there was an abundance of them I'd agree with you...but the 757 price is at a premium right now due to high demand for this great jet.

If the 757 was so great, why did Boeing stop producing it in favour of the Next-Gen 737-700/800? This is something I've always wondered about.

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:24 pm

because the 737 is more demanding right now, most companies are buying for pax not freight .. 757 is better for freight and is indeed the future replacement a/c for the wonderful 727-200's . 737's are cheaper , easier and to get crew cause there are so many of them ( 737's )+ pilots around right now for the ( NG ) and all 737 from the 600 all the way to the 900 are transferable due to the same systems and avionics .... but this does not mean that the 737 is better than the 757 , just cheaper in every aspect ....

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:51 pm

I think the timing of the 757 was just off, compared with the current market demands. I've always thought of the 757 as the ultimate aircraft. Has anyone aircraft manufacturer ever stopped production on a line then restarted that same line in the future?

hamstandard · Post by **hamstandard** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:00 pm

Cessna

Troubleshot · Post by **Troubleshot** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:23 pm

Golden Flyer wrote:I think the timing of the 757 was just off, compared with the current market demands. I've always thought of the 757 as the ultimate aircraft. Has anyone aircraft manufacturer ever stopped production on a line then restarted that same line in the future?

I think your bang on with that statement...if Boeing were to launch the 757 today it would be a great seller but it is unlikely it will ever be reborn.

I think Boeing stopped the 757 line because the market place at the time was all about the RJ and "smaller is better" way of thinking.

The 737-900 and the 757-200 are not really compariable in the cargo config. not sure about fuel burn but in an all out race to move "x" amount of cargo, the 757 is surely a better bird than the 737. (of course all depending on the operational requirements)

Just some spec's:

737-900 - 174 000 lbs MTOW and 2500nm range

757-200 - 255 550 lbs MTOW and 3700nm range (RR engines)

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:04 pm

Troubleshot wrote:
Golden Flyer wrote:I think the timing of the 757 was just off, compared with the current market demands. I've always thought of the 757 as the ultimate aircraft. Has anyone aircraft manufacturer ever stopped production on a line then restarted that same line in the future?
I think your bang on with that statement...if Boeing were to launch the 757 today it would be a great seller but it is unlikely it will ever be reborn.

I think Boeing stopped the 757 line because the market place at the time was all about the RJ and "smaller is better" way of thinking.

The 737-900 and the 757-200 are not really compariable in the cargo config. not sure about fuel burn but in an all out race to move "x" amount of cargo, the 757 is surely a better bird than the 737. (of course all depending on the operational requirements)

Just some spec's:

737-900 - 174 000 lbs MTOW and 2500nm range

757-200 - 255 550 lbs MTOW and 3700nm range (RR engines)

Ya, I read an article released by boeing about the aircraft. They thought it would be the aircraft of the future but the timing couldn't have been more off. You're right, if the 757 was being launched now, it would be incredible. I can't think of anyone that wouldn't want to grab one (especially for cargo purposes)

Double Wasp · Post by **Double Wasp** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:29 pm

That's not stopping Fedex. Aren't they buying up something like 10% of the world's fleet of 757's by 2014 to replace their 727's. That says to me a that the price of a 57 will stay high for a while and there will probably be something like 130 extra 727's on the market.

pika · Post by **pika** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:34 pm

If the 757 was so great, why did Boeing stop producing it in favour of the Next-Gen 737-700/800? This is something I've always wondered about.

One of only eight types that has ever produced more than 1000 copies. A great machine indeed.

Some Boeing types once said that operators never used the airplane how Boeing envisoned. The performance that airplane leaves behind almost every flight is near shameful.

hamstandard · Post by **hamstandard** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:10 am

Actually, with the new UPS order for 767's, all Boeing's from 707 to 777 will have over 1,000 manufactured. And the 787 is well on it's way.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:28 am

pika wrote:
If the 757 was so great, why did Boeing stop producing it in favour of the Next-Gen 737-700/800? This is something I've always wondered about.
One of only eight types that has ever produced more than 1000 copies. A great machine indeed.

Some Boeing types once said that operators never used the airplane how Boeing envisoned. The performance that airplane leaves behind almost every flight is near shameful.

Well, that was the problem. Most operators didn't need such a high performance machine. The 757 has such an extended range, and is very powerful. Alot of money.

The aircraft had caught my attention a few years ago. I went out, got the cockpit poster and an inflight poster. I'm thinking of selling my 747 wooden (mahogany) model and get the 757.

Say Altitude · Post by **Say Altitude** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 am

Golden Flyer wrote:I've always thought of the 757 as the ultimate aircraft.

For everyone except accountants. Narrow body aircraft with wide body costs. That's why it shut down when it did. Poor choice economically for those that picked them.

therubberjungle · Post by **therubberjungle** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:10 am

Will Fedex replace their 727s with 757s?

A resounding YES, without question. In fact, the contracts have all ready been signed.

The 757 is a direct replacement for the 727/737. Why re-invent the wheel? They share the exact same fuselage meaning Fedex/ Flightcraft (Purolater) / UPS can utilize their present cans. No need to change aircraft floor configurations, loaders, etc.

The 757 was originally intended to have a 727/737 flight deck and nose but further considerations (767 amalgamation) led to a new (compromised) design.

Some here have questioned the validity of replacing the 727-200s with 757s where the 757s can accommodate only two more cans than the 727-200s. Think about it: Sure, it's only two more cans but the total payload of the 757 far out-weighs that of the 727.

In an industry that charges by the ounce, the 757 makes money on payload alone. Take into consideration that Fedex's replacement 757s will burn 10-15% less fuel per flight than the out-going 727-200s then the purposed conversion/amalgamation of the newly acquired planes' cost is entirely justified.

Consider major inspection costs on a twenty-to-thirty-something year-old 727 vs any 757. There's a reason that the 72s are finding their way into the desert/ museums/ aircraft maintenance schools: they're worn out. Sad but true: the old girl's time has run out - but what a time she's had!!!

Kelowna Flightcraft works magic on their machines, no question, but the biggies: Fedex / UPS have seen the light. UPS up-converted their 727-100s a while back (Rolls engines and new avionics) but they will soon be retiring the type. Fedex, as we know, has procured many 757s with more to follow.

Fedex has slated complete 727 replacement by 2018. European operations will see the first of the new fleet, Canada will see the last.

Cheers

Edited for spelling several times.

therubberjungle · Post by **therubberjungle** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:23 am

Just reread this thread:

Boeing was willing to extend the 727 run for Fedex. They did, but only 15 (or so) planes resulted, far short of the purposed/promised run. They are considered "baby 747s" but are a rare breed (the best of the breed). We will see them flying in Canada before they are turned to pasture.

Boeing offered to extend the production run of the 757s but Fedex declined. Those production facilities have been re-allocated.

'Nuf said.

r100rs · Post by **r100rs** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:39 am

The 757-200 is a great airplane. ATA used them significantly all over the world. Out of MDW during the summer, you could basically just load what you wanted and go. Now the 757-300 are a piece of crap performance wise.

r100rs

sinjin · Post by **sinjin** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:00 pm

I have heard that Airst air was looking at the 757 and 767 for the Canada post run that they recently aquired out East (the Artic run). Did not think that they were replacing the entire fleet

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:25 am

They seem to have worked perfectly for Thomas Cook... Isn't the entire fleet consist of 757's?

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:32 am

now that you can get 757 winglets the US operators are using them on transatlantic on an increasing basis.

boeingboy · Post by **boeingboy** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:36 pm

Regardless........any canadian operator who wants to use the 757 or 767 for cargo had better have a lot of time and money. These would need to be certified by TC.

And we all know what happened to ACE with the DC-10.

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:18 pm

The lease cost of a 737NG is around 400,000 a month while a 757 goes for just over 100,000 a month.

As was noted on a previous post, the 757 weighs around 70,000 pounds more then the 737 but only carries another 40 pax. In other words the operating costs are a lot higher on the 757.

The range on any 737NG is a lot more then 2500nm.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:32 pm

I checked boeing for the highest performance aircraft from both the 737 family and compare them to those of the 757. The 737-900 Extended Range is alot more than 2500 nm but still doesn't have the range of the 757.

The 737-900 ER: 3,200 nautical miles (5,925 km)

The 757-200: 3,900 nautical miles (7,222 km)
The 757-300: 3,395 nautical miles (6,287 km)

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757fam ... 0tech.html