Tipping is Very Appreciated

disengage · Post by **disengage** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:16 am

The other night we had a some corporate aircraft come into the FBO and after they were looked after the pax and the pilots tipped us i just wanted to say thanks and that this shows they seem to care about the Ground Handlers.

Turkey · Post by **Turkey** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:36 am

Yes, we all could be a little more generous with the tips. However don't forget, that it's not the guys in the cockpit with all the money. It's the passengers that you just helped. And I almost guarantee that those passengers didn't tip the pilots either.

My rule of thumb; if the ground crew helps me, I'll tip. If the groundcrew helps the passengers, and the passengers don't tip, sorry. I'm not gonna do some rich bastard's tipping for him.

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:01 am

By helping the passengers they are in essence helping you. To have the limo/rental car brought out, passengers bags loaded right away and the client seamlessly on their way is good service and also the ramp guy/girl to stick around to help the crew with anything or make arrangements on their behalf is also a part of the service and should be tipped.

I know you can't draw parallels but to tip a server for bringing you a coffee and a plate of food you usually give 10 percent or more depending on how the service was. For a ramp person to make your experience seamless and then organize things as a cab for you and possibly reserve rooms, order catering, clean your lav, get your coffee, ice, hot water and receive no tip seems unfair. Where the first person making minimum wage among other things checks on you to see if you need a refill and brings you a plate and a cup they are usually ensured a tip.

I worked on the ramp and made minimum wage so tips for going above and beyond were greatly appreciated. It wasn't everyday service either and pilot's usually would realize it and tip. I made 60 bucks (1 million Canadian

because I drove down to my other work grabbed a LO chart and hurried back to give it to the pilot. It was Sunday morning at 0700 and not a pilot supply around, this guy was desperate as his Captain was chewing his ass out when they got to programming the FMS and realized they didn't have that chart.

All I am saying I guess is that if I go to an FBO and they make you feel like you have a personal assistant that can make anything happen then for sure I will tip. Whereas I go to YKZ and can't even find a marshaller or guy to help with bags. I asked where to dump the lav the guy put up his hands and says immediately "We don't do that here"......then that's another story. Sorry to "dump" on YKZ but it is by far the worst "service" out there.

Basically people who work for it and deserve it should get it.

Legacy · Post by **Legacy** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:39 am

Not to sound like a cheap bas&tard but what ever happened to doing your job because that is what your employer pays you to do. With this tipping talk, shouldn't everyone that does their job really well get a tip then? If you get up and go to fill your car with gas at a full serve. tip the gas guy. go pick up your parcel at the mail. tip the counter staff because your parcel came in without being broken. go to your chiropractor appointment and tip them because they fit you in right away without an appointment. all this tipping crap is nonsense. tipping is always appreciated but should not be expected.

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:48 am

Some of the fractionals give their pilots tip money. I know Netjets and Air Sprint do.

Go to dinner in Montreal some night and look at the bottom of the bill. Most time it will say in both official languages in bold letters that "Tipping/Service is not included".

I can't help but think of the opening sequence of Reservoir Dogs where they are sitting around the breakfast table discussing this very topic.
"Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not, they're bringing you food."

I worked on the ramp and made minimum wage so tips for going above and beyond were greatly appreciated.

I worked a few min wage jobs including my first flying job and never got tipped once. In fact, I have never been tipped in a flying job. I like my job most days so I don't care. When I did get tipped I was usually making half decent money.

Tipping seems to be a way that employers can pay their employees less. I seem to remember that wait staff at restaurants have a lower minimum wage if they serve alcohol as the tips will be higher. That's crap.

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:22 am

I find most Corporate pilots will tip,Canadian companies seem to lag a little in that department with the exception of Air sprint.Almost every U.S jet I have handled will tip.I remember being handed $100 u.s dollars from a U.S pilot that I helped out,on the other hand I also remember a fairly well known u.s bullrider who came up for the CFR handing me $100 bucks just for grabbing his bags and taking them to his limo.I will usually split it up with my co-workers if they have helped out,if they havent then they get squat from me,it works both ways.I just love the guys who will chock a plane and walk away without asking what the crew needs (ice,water,catering,hanger,fuel,etc) and wonder why they didnt get the tip?Use your brains...

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:56 am

As a corporate flyer there is an expectation to tip the ground guys for doing good from what I'm hearing.

Do the Westjet/AC/Jazz/Zoom/Sunwing/Harmony folks tip their ground people for good service?

Same thing isn't it?

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:08 pm

Tipping is universal everywhere in corporate - I flew with one pilot who carried a briefcase full of cash in every imaginable currency and he spread it around everywhere he went. One of the joys of corporate, children. Sometimes you can't even get off the plane without grease. I went into Kosovo to do a medevac and the customs lady wanted $800 US cash to let us off the plane. I gave her a Canadian flag and told her to emigrate, she had a great future at RevCan.

The minimum tip for helping us out at an FBO, dumping the poop and bringing out our catering was $20. Usually the poop guys got $20 too.

If you use a handler, they will tip on your behalf and add it to your bill. Canada is not like the real world, but we tipped here, too

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:16 pm

My, my, my, I thought Canada was multicultural.

It is called " Backshish '.

Who be unto those who do not understand the importance of that in many parts of the world.

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:38 pm

Snowgoose wrote:As a corporate flyer there is an expectation to tip the ground guys for doing good from what I'm hearing.

Do the Westjet/AC/Jazz/Zoom/Sunwing/Harmony folks tip their ground people for good service?

Same thing isn't it?

Working at a FBO and at main terminal are two very diffirent things,FBO's are much more personal and if they arent then your going to the wrong FBO.The ATS's and the Servisair's rarely see the crew,they also dont fuel the airplanes,organize hotels,catering etc for the crew.I dont ever expect a tip but its a nice little bonus and show's that the crews really do appreciate what we do...You may even get a 737BBJ crew who tips,but that again is the magic of the world of FBO's.We do it all,its not 5 diffirent service providers at one airplane.So FBO's are very diffirent.

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:48 pm

skyismine wrote:
Snowgoose wrote:As a corporate flyer there is an expectation to tip the ground guys for doing good from what I'm hearing.

Do the Westjet/AC/Jazz/Zoom/Sunwing/Harmony folks tip their ground people for good service?

Same thing isn't it?
Working at a FBO and at main terminal are two very diffirent things,FBO's are much more personal and if they arent then your going to the wrong FBO.The ATS's and the Servisair's rarely see the crew,they also dont fuel the airplanes,organize hotels,catering etc for the crew.I dont ever expect a tip but its a nice little bonus and show's that the crews really do appreciate what we do...You may even get a 737BBJ crew who tips,but that again is the magic of the world of FBO's.We do it all,its not 5 diffirent service providers at one airplane.So FBO's are very diffirent.

I see my ground crew every flight. And they have the ability to make me late or not. Which it turn for the most part keeps my pax happy or not.

So again what's the difference. It's food for thought. It's the same arguement as tipping at McDonald's. Why don't we do it? Should we tip everytime someone lifts a finger for us.

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:03 pm

Clearly you missed the we do it all,we dont just organize it...We actually do it.Fuel,Food,Put you in the hanger,cleaning if you want (in and out),keep your pax entertained while they wait,etc.Often not 5 people doing it but one single person.Heck we even let you flirt with our CSR's if you feel the need....

I also fly and I hope that one day when I make it mainline that I treat the ground guys aswell as I want to be treated now,minus the tip.Just with a little respect....

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:05 pm

Canadians are renowned world-wide as cheap tippers - keep up the reputation!

Crazymax · Post by **Crazymax** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:42 pm

What makes you special so you are paid twice for the same job? I do tip but I really don't understand it... It's not because you make less than me (sometimes more....) that I should pay you EXTRA money becuase you service my airplane...

Max

disengage · Post by **disengage** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:01 pm

Snowgoose wrote:

As a corporate flyer there is an expectation to tip the ground guys for doing good from what I'm hearing.

Do the Westjet/AC/Jazz/Zoom/Sunwing/Harmony folks tip their ground people for good service?

Same thing isn't it?

Hey We at the FBOs dont get any flight passes...we get rides to close citys for example from edmonton to calgary to vancouver. You could say the Ground Handling companies are being tipped this way...because i have never seen a pilot come off a 737, or bigger airliner and hand a guy money. or maybe because theres 6 or 7 rampies running around down there and the pilot doesnt want to chase them down?? Oh well i know when theres a chance of being tipped i put extra effort in to accomodating the a/c and people when they arrive.

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disengage · Post by **disengage** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:13 pm

posted twice

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:27 pm

Well next time you fly into a FBO and see a American crew why dont you guys ask the logic behind them tipping???I really dont care about the tips personally and a simple thanks alot is more than enough for me,believe me...The flight passes comment was a good one,major ground handlers do get passes for most airlines that they handle,so in a sense your head office is passing the buck for you.I enjoy my job,I also enjoy making the bird go up and down as many of you do.I get good service at a resturant,I tip the proper amount.Its a courtesy,not a requirement.SO if you think we FBO guys want your money,your wrong.Its just I nice compliment,a proper thanks will do it too!!!Hey if you actually listen to my marshalling I may even tip you!!!

Crazymax · Post by **Crazymax** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:29 pm

skyismine wrote:Well next time you fly into a FBO and see a American crew why dont you guys ask the logic behind them tipping???I really dont care about the tips personally and a simple thanks alot is more than enough for me,believe me...The flight passes comment was a good one,major ground handlers do get passes for most airlines that they handle,so in a sense your head office is passing the buck for you.I enjoy my job,I also enjoy making the bird go up and down as many of you do.I get good service at a resturant,I tip the proper amount.Its a courtesy,not a requirement.SO if you think we FBO guys want your money,your wrong.Its just I nice compliment,a proper thanks will do it too!!!Hey if you actually listen to my marshalling I may even tip you!!!

Someone professionnal will do his job, no matter what the tip is... If you want passes, nothing prevents you from applying at AC...

Max

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:32 pm

Tipping is done because it is expected. It is a cultural standard. In that respect it is the same as bribes, commission, or job perks. If you go get a job at McDonalds, you don't expect tips; If you go get a job at a five star resteraunt/hotel you definately do expect tips. Do FBO workers always expect tips? No. But if they go above and beyond and get nothing, they may feel maligned because something that was expected was withheld. It's a cultural standard, nothing more. If you choose not to tip, say kind words, or show any sort of gratitude for above-par service then that is your choice, but if you recieve shitty service on the next visit don't come whining to me.

P.S. if a McDonald's worker truely went above and beyond for me, I'd tip them too...

Fline@9 · Post by **Fline@9** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:55 pm

When the girl at the FBO stopped me in my tracks and said "what no tip?" I replied... "honey, you're cute enough I think I'll give you the whole thing"

sinjin · Post by **sinjin** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:09 am

Suggestion, As a supervisor at a F.B.O. if you are not going to, or do not have the money (I have hear the wage gripes on here) why don't you pull me aside and tell me when one or my guys does a great job. Not one to try to hammer a point home but the only time that I ever hear about anything that that one of my rampies has done is usually a complaint. I have very rarely had anyone come and tell me that Hey SO and SO did a great job. If I get a few of those about one of my guys (or girl) I will take them out for a drink or a dinner.

I am not talking about them doing there job, but rather going above the cal of duty (ex thawing out KA-100 breaks in -30 degree weather while the pilots sit inside and not loose feelings in there finger tips).

I hope that this will aleavate some of the pressure that some of the pilots feel when it comes to tippin.

rsandor · Post by **rsandor** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:34 am

Tipping is done because it is expected. It is a cultural standard. In that respect it is the same as bribes, commission, or job perks. If you go get a job at McDonalds, you don't expect tips; If you go get a job at a five star resteraunt/hotel you definately do expect tips. Do FBO workers always expect tips? No. But if they go above and beyond and get nothing, they may feel maligned because something that was expected was withheld. It's a cultural standard, nothing more. If you choose not to tip, say kind words, or show any sort of gratitude for above-par service then that is your choice, but if you recieve shitty service on the next visit don't come whining to me.

P.S. if a McDonald's worker truely went above and beyond for me, I'd tip them too..

Amen. Tipping is NOT a city in China!

I have tipped a McDonalds cashier more than once.

If you are in the service industry, the secret is to not expect any tips, then whatever you get will come as a pleasant surprise. Even if you work at a nice hotel. (which I did for 5 years)

I'm not particularly rich, but I'll tip for anything that is above & beyond the expected service. At a restaurant I'll tip 10% as a base, and then more or less depending on the quality of the dining experience.

I'm also a believer in Karma. (Not so much Karma, so much as "cause and effect") What goes around does eventually come around. I order Dominos Pizza once a week and you can rest assured the delivery guys always give my calls priority because after a couple of years, they know I tip well when they are fast and don't tip much when they are late.

You can be a Reservoir Dog and choose not to tip if you want to, but trust me, people who serve you will not be saying nice things about you behind your back...

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:55 am

Snowgoose wrote: I can't help but think of the opening sequence of Reservoir Dogs where they are sitting around the breakfast table discussing this very topic.
"Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not, they're bringing you food."

No, but I don't eat at McDonalds either. Their food and service are crap. A waitress at a decent restaraunt is serving you for the whole time you're there, and hopefully doing a good job. Employees at McDonalds and other fast food joints generally could care less about you once they've gotten their money, which (somewhat disturbingly... what IS the special sauce?) is before they give you your food. There are exceptions, they usually get better jobs in a very short amount of time, either by getting promoted within McD's, or (hopefully) moving elsewhere.

The most service I've ever gotten at a fast food joint, after paying for and recieving my food, is being told to leave after 1/2 an hour.

If I'm sitting down to order food and drinks, 10 percent if the service is bad, but still existant. 15-20 if it's good, more if it's great. 10-15 in a cab, unless the guy is a complete asshole. And for restaraunts, it's 15-20 percent of what I'd pay if I were drinking beer. Tips go to the server, not management. If I'm drinking coffee, it's just as much work as uncapping a beer. I don't see why a coffee should get a $0.15 tip, and a beer a $0.75-1.00 tip, considering the work.

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:17 am

I just dont treat ground handlers like shit; and I still get the top service when I'm flying. Regardless if it's charters or sched service.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:37 am

I was tipped once as a ground handler in 8 years, but we don't do very many corporate jets.

It was in YYG, I happened to be in early for my shift and a nice Gulfstream pulled in, I won't say the actors name but him and some buddies had flown in for some golf, I off loaded 5 pieces of luggage, and 4 golf bags, drove them to the gate, and put them in two waiting cars... total work required 10 minutes maybe, and after much arguing (I didn't want to take it) they tipped me $1000 US, and insisted that I take it...

Now that was a good weekend.