Funny one

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:50 pm

I read this on a different forums but it is really funny
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Student declared emergency at Cranfield a few years ago, in a C150/152 with the flaps not working.

Tower asked to confirm it was an emergency, student repeats: 'mayday mayday mayday, my flaps don't work'.

For those of you who don't know Cranfield, 1800 m of hard runway. Hardly an issue in a flapless C150/152.

After uneventful landing with emergency services in attendance, tower asks: 'Can you confirm you are happy to taxi back to parking without flaps?'

Priceless!

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enjoy
Adam

Krashman · Post by **Krashman** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:49 am

a good laugh... exactly what I need in the morning

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:41 am

It's seems like a good chuckle and I agree.

But I would give this guy a bit of credit for declaring an emergency. It's seems so hard for people to declare an emergency. People don't want to fuss over them unless it's really a problem. I have seen guys who have had a low engine oil pressure light come on in a single engine and not declare. They simply asked to return with no priority. If the engine had have KO'ed half way back, no one would be on alert for them.

I don't think the tower should have ridiculed him. Think of how hard it will be for him to declare an emergency again.

If you are unhappy with the situation declare an emergency!

It costs you nothing, except a bit of explaining
It gives the airport CFR guys some practice
If anything really does go wrong, the people who can help you are on notice

youngflier · Post by **youngflier** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:10 pm

wow, well that just tells me that training facility runs a poor ground school

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:12 pm

I completely agree that it's a shame people are ridiculed for declairing an emergency. While doing dual for my MIFR we had an engine overspeed and the instuctor asked what I thought we should do. The instructor turned down the my suggestions of requesting priority and/or going to a larger airport a few minutes away. Obviously we didn't die but there were possible causes that could've been catastrophic. I still wonder why that decision was made but I did decide I would never put pride above safety while I was PIC.

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:45 am

dam!! declaring an emergency cause flaps don't work !!! did I miss something here? when I did my training we practiced lots of flap-less landings
big F****** deal !!!! what kind of training did this dude get ?

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:03 am

TITAN wrote:dam!! declaring an emergency cause flaps don't work !!! did I miss something here? when I did my training we practiced lots of flap-less landings
big F****** deal !!!! what kind of training did this dude get ?

Lets see, it's was an electrical/mechanical failure of the airplane. The pilot felt uncomfortable with the situation. He declared an emergency. Something a lot of people wouldn't do.

I agree it's a no brainer in most if not all training aircraft.

The tower shouldn't have ridiculed him. He took the safest option available.

Why do you think we have all those sections in the AIM about minimum fuel and the like. It's because people didn't declare an emergency and lots of people died.

The appropriate course of action after this incident, to which the article does not go into depth, is to take an instructor with you to practice flapless landings to up his confidence level. Then next time when he encountered this situation he would feel more confident landing without flaps.

Making fun of a newbies makes no sense. Would you be happy if you were flying 2 crew and you told the captain that you felt uncomfortable about a situation and he called you a pussy.

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:35 am

snowgoose! I agree with most of the things you have mentioned , I am not making fun of the student pilot here, more of the institution that taught him ...
there is a clear boundary line that separates critical or non-critical emergencies to a particular A/C .. and as we all learn flaps are just an aid to allow better landing/ shorter landings and you should not be in any way declaring an emergency for a simple little malfunction like this one!!!

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:39 am

youngflier wrote:wow, well that just tells me that training facility runs a poor ground school

Probably not, our student flier probably just panicked. in the end he got the airplane back on the runway safely. Won't be the first time a student does it, won't be the last.

If the student made any error it was not following the best advice from HHGTTG.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:44 am

Remember about a year ago (pretty sure it was in AB) a student did a whoopsie, tower reported it, and enforcement mailed the registered letter out to the instructor?

That was an eye-opener for me - Transport says you are guilty of something, even if you didn't do it, and they agree you didn't do it.

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:02 pm

there is a clear boundary line that separates critical or non-critical emergencies to a particular A/C

Really?

How can you say it's a clear line. Some 20 hour rookie going solo has a problem it will be more of an issue to them than a 1000-2000 hour instructor. Probably because the instructor may have seen it once or twice before and have built the confidence to deal with it better.

What if the weather drops to special VFR?
What if you lost the generator?
What if you lost vacuum and/or an instrument(s)?

Would you declare? It would depend on your experience and confidence.

Training is key I agree, but no matter what, if you are uncomfortable about the situation DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

I can't stress this enough. It's not going to cost you anything, they won't throw you in jail and they won't take your license away.

A few years ago a African Airliner declared a fuel emergency in South America so that he could get his passengers to a soccer game faster. While this is deplorable all they did was fine him.

I am not making fun of the student pilot here, more of the institution that taught him ...

It's hard to say because more context is needed for this story. Although I'd say the training institution did a great job on this guy because he had a problem, was uncomfortable, and did something about it. That's usually the hardest thing to train into someone. So what if he may have needed a few more circuits, who cares.

If he was confortable with the flap failure good for him, this joke wouldn't be here.

It's way better to declare an emergency, land, and discuss rather than not declare and have it all flush down the toilet.

Kilo-Kilo · Post by **Kilo-Kilo** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Pilot_adam wrote:I read this on a different forums but it is really funny

Student declared emergency at Cranfield a few years ago.....

First of all, the way this story starts leads me to believe that it is an event that evolved into an embelished urban myth.

Second, we don't know why the flaps stopped working, but it would most likely be electrical or mechanical related.

Who here has ever hit an electrical switch to find the result to be an overload that caused smoke because of an electrical or mechanical fault? It doesn't even have to be aviation related. It could be a table saw, for example.

If a student were to engage the flaps and there was even a hint of smoke and an obvious lack of flap, I would hope they would err on the side of caution.

Some of you may not have actually flown in cessnas that had fuses instead of curcuit breakers. You can't blow one of those without a wiff of smoke in the cockpit.

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:52 pm

Why does every post have turn into a fight ???!!! Jesus

Chill guys,chilll

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:59 pm

Sorry if I sound standoffish but this is an important point.

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:01 pm

SNOWGOOSE!! once again I share some of your views on this matter regarding not being afraid to declare an emergency if someone is not comfortable with the situation that they are in when flying an A/C ... but again when you are going solo even for the first time ever, you should understand the basic theory of flight and basic A/C parts and what they are there for ( at-least I did ) ... its all about reading the FTM that they usually issue to you before your actual flight training commences . flap-less situations happen lots of times and thats why before you go solo your instructor should always simulate that scenario , and explain that its not an emergency and you DON'T need flaps to land an A/C , just keep the speed up a little !! ( especially on 1800 m runway )...

"there is a clear boundary line that separates critical or non-critical emergencies to a particular A/C"

if your TB fails in the circuit with 10 miles vis should you declare an emergency !! NO

oil temp rises to red and oil press drops to below norm !! YES!!

make a PAN call not a mayday !! once again , you learn the diff between emergency or urgency during P-star I believe ....

The flight school and instructor that was doing his training should have explained this kind of stuff to him prior to solo flight !!

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:42 pm

What is a PAN call? Or a MAYDAY for that case. I have been flying for 16 years and have never heard either of them uttered once, anywhere.

I read them in FTGU and the Commications Canada (I know I am dating myself) pamphlet. I wrote the exam but that's the last I heard of them.

I have heard "declaring an emergency" on more than one occasion. I don't understand how you can have sort of an emergency. It's is or it isn't.

When some says it is, it's not up for discussion until the planes down, engine off, and had some time to collect your thoughts. Then you can discuss if you made the right desicion.

Again, the guy erred on the side of caution and you're blaming the flight school/instructor. Am I missing something?

The flight school and instructor that was doing his training should have explained this kind of stuff to him prior to solo flight !!

I agree.

But the guy was obviously uncomfortable. No matter how I look at it he did the right thing. And it was wrong for the tower to make fun of him.

there is a clear boundary line that separates critical or non-critical emergencies to a particular A/C

Is there a list of critical and non-critical for every airplane? I'd like to see it. In all the checklist I have used I have never seen "Declare an Emergency" as one of the items.

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:25 pm

JESUS CHRIST !! snowgoose all I am saying is that

no-flaps
no landing light
no-carb heat
no turn & bank ind ( during VFR )
window opens and does not close!!
have to take a shit

anybody with those kinds of scenarios as mentioned above , should not be declaring a emergency!!

I have heard "declaring an emergency" on more than one occasion. I don't understand how you can have sort of an emergency. It's is or it isn't.

you can its called common sense!!

again I do agree with you about ATC's stupid little comment at the end and I know that the students limited experience drove him into making
his decision , I will say it one more time . his instructor should have simulated that scenario and explain that it is a common thing to happen and that if it does occur that it isn't a major issue , and also maybe remind
him that there are A/C were manufactured without any flaps...

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:31 pm

TITAN wrote:JESUS CHRIST !! snowgoose all I am saying is that

no-flaps
no landing light
no-carb heat
no turn & bank ind ( during VFR )
window opens and does not close!!
have to take a shit

Titan lets look at what emergency means:

e·mer·gen·cy /ɪˈmɜrdʒənsi/
–noun
1. a sudden, urgent, usually unexpected occurrence or occasion requiring immediate action.
2. a state, esp. of need for help or relief, created by some unexpected event: a weather emergency; a financial emergency.

I would say that to a student anyone of that list could be construed to be an emergency. Why is that? Because the student does not have the experience necessary to deal with the situation and requires some help. Now if your mother called you at 1:30 on a Thursday because she got a flat tire on the 401 and needed your help, would you call that an emergency? To most people not really, you change the tire and carry on however to her the situation is grave. It all depends on experience and expertise. Now sure we all know a 150 can be landed without flaps. But what we do not know is the whole story. Maybe it was the students second solo and they had only ever been taught to land with flaps. Then yeah to them they are going to need help landing without them! Certainly not a good way to teach someone I will not argue with that, however that is the instructors fault and the school's fault not the student.

The student did EVERYTHING right. He was uncomfortable, felt that he needed help and was beyond his comfort zone. If it would where my student I would congratulate him on a job well done. If everyone did the right thing and asked for help when they got into a little trouble there would be a lot less deaths in aviation.

The down side to this is I bet you the student will wait till it is too late to declare an emergency next time.

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:08 pm

It would be really helpful if the pilots on here who portray themselves as experienced would avoid using such black and white examples. The last thing we need is some green kid thinking to himself oh that really smart/experienced/stupendus dude on avcanada said this wasn't an emergency so I won't say anything untill I lose my engine/run off the end of the runway/burst into flames.

No carb heat could be an emergency if you were having to use it for most of the flight to keep your engine smooth and now you're faced with an approach and landing without it.

Flap failure could be an emergency if they fail at 40 degrees and you have to land in a decent cross wind (Yes this situation would take some work to get into) and can't get to another airport due to weather or fuel.

Flap failure in the up position can be an emergency at certain strips. I know of at least one in Canada that is built on a burm with a sharp drop off on three sides and has no length to spare. (and there is a FTU based there) if, again, the student is unable to make it to another airport.

I recognise that these are extenuating circumstances but they do happen and to claim that it is never an emergency when situation X, Y, or Z occurs is dangerous.

gonfly'n · Post by **gonfly'n** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:04 pm

I completely agree with snowgoose. I know from personal experience sometimes shit can get hectic and being a student pilot you freeze or make a mistake. i'v fucked up a few times.The good thing is you usually won't make that mistake again. I know my first few times going solo i'd get nervous when i was asked to make a runway change or do anything that wasn't a left hand touch and go for 24.

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:23 pm

Im with snowgoose on this one. I think being able to say when you need help and not being afraid to admit you are uncombfortable in a situation is a fundemental responsibility we all share. While the situation for most people may be routine and not a big deal to this guy it may have been horrifying. Your experience allows you to decide its not a big deal.

To a student the fact that anything on the a/c isnt working properly is a terrible notion. I am sure one of his thoughts was if it wasnt ok for me to take off with flaps busted than it must not be ok for them to be broken here.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:26 pm

Pilot Adam

I thought it was funny, too

So, maybe the tower guys comments were a little out of line. Some people handle stress that way.

You guys take things so seriously, I think you may have some real career prospects with TC enforcement.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:33 pm

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:51 pm

CF-AAA - "XXXX tower this is CF-AAA requesting practice DF steer".

XXXX Tower - "Unable, we have too much traffic"

CF-AAA - ".......Can I have a real one then?"

FlyYukon · Post by **FlyYukon** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:20 pm

Good one Rockie.

When I did my PPL training, every landing was with flaps. We practaced slips at altitude, and on approach (with flaps - C-152), but I dont recall making any flapless landings - myself or demonstrated in my training. On my Private flight test, on the final landing, the DFE said, ok, no flaps. So instead of flaps, I went into a nice slip until ground effect, and brought it down to what I can recall as my smothest landing to that day.

To me a normal landing was 20 degrees flap.

When I went to ProIFR in Boundary Bay, my instructor (Thanks for the great training btw K.L) asked me for a normal landing on my circuits, so I start to put down flap. she seemed confused, but then we figured out that my normal was flaps, and hers was no flap. So I did flapless circuits for hours.. and hours... and threw in some flap here and there

.

FY

Funny one

Funny one

Re: Funny one