Pratt & Whitney 1830 Radial Engine

4930s · Post by **4930s** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:06 pm

Hello Folks,

I'm searching for some performance figures for the Pratt & Whitney 1830 Radial engine. this egine was used on the Canso or PBY aircraft, the DC3 utilized these engines as well i do believe.

Im looking for any info anyone can give me, Power settings for Take off, Climb, and long range cruse settings. and most importantly is the fuel burns for these corrosponding power settings.

If anyone can provide this info or even point me in the direction of were I can find it myself I would greatly appreciate it.

Cheers

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:21 pm

" Im looking for any info anyone can give me, Power settings for Take off,

48 inches M.P. and 2700 RPM.

Climb,

35 inches M.P. and 2300 RPM.

and long range cruse settings.

That depends on your all up weight after level off. But 30 inches and 2050 RPM is ball park reducing as fuel burn reduces all up weight.

and most importantly is the fuel burns for these corrosponding power settings.

If you are flying a long distance say 12 hours airborne you can use 72 Imp. Gallons per hour as a reliable fuel burn estimate for the trip.

The longest trip I ever flew was 19 hours and 10 minutes from take off to landing.....as I recall the average fuel burn was 68 Imperial gallons per hour as we were loitering at low power settings for parts of that flight.

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:03 pm

Hey Cat, what were you doing for 19 hours sometimes at low power settings?

Mile High club with 50 strippers or what

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:47 pm

We were escorting two Bell 206's in 1968 from Povungnituk to some God forsaken place in the high Arctic, we were carrying fuel for them in 10 gallon drums.

The weather was horrible and each time the helicopters were forced to land we had to orbit and wait, finally we had to abandon the helicopters and go to coral Harbour as we were geting short on fuel ourselves. Coral Harbour was WOXOF when we got there but we finally found the fu.kin runway doing beacon approaches and landed after 19 hours and 10 minutes airborne.

We had something to eat, had them pack us some lunches fueled up and flew to Timmins, another 13 and a half hours.

We took turns sleeping in the back with a piece of rope tied to our wrist so the other guy could jerk it and wake each other up when we got to tired to keep it right side up on instruments.

Remember that was back in the days of wooden ships and iron men.

For sport we hunted moose with nothing but a buck knife.

VD was no problem as we built up an immunity to it.

Any time you guys need advise just ask the Cat.

sovereign · Post by **sovereign** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:09 pm

Found my old DC-3 flight manual from my Bradley days. Long Range cruise procedure.
6000feet,IAS 132,std temp 3 c, carb temp 20 c, bhp 395, rpm 1700, m.p. 25.6in 50 imp gal/hr

12000feet,IAS 131, std temp -9 c, carb temp 20c, bhp 435, rpm 1750, m.p. 26in 54 imp gal/hr

note airspeeds shown at 2500lbs speed will increase approx. 3 mph for each 1000 lbs decrease in gross wt.

hope this helps

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:20 pm

I should have mentioned my numbers were for the Catalina...a whole different bird than the DC3....

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:05 pm

I used to fly with a guy whose take off briefing in the Racer was "44 and 85." He meant 44" MAP and any failure below 85 knots. 44" in a Dak was moronic. We kept Standard Aero in the gravy as long as we operated. He couldn't get it through his head that we weren't "saving" the engines at all, but burning them up every take-off. Only ever had one catch fire, though - it shot a jug right through the cowling.

Cat, you sure that rope was attached to your wrist?

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:33 pm

I don't care what anyone thinks of what aviation is really all about but Cat, that is some hard core flying.

Too bad the good old days are gone.

thanks for sharing that story.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:06 pm

Yeh, that was with Austin Airways one of the greatest airlines that Canada ever had.

We really knew the meaning of work in those days, especially in the winter with the DC3's.

The industry was really different then, the guys who worked for Transport were from the same mold and we worked together, they would meet us on their days off to give us our check rides when we were back in civilization, even on weekends.

Sure there were downsides, but the weak were weeded out because they could not hold up their end of things, sure there were some real assholes, but karma eventually caught up that kind.

I really get a kick out of the need for the magic PPC, fu.k we used to fly from Timmins to Moose, Fort George in the DC3 unload all our stuff into a PBY and fly the rest of the sked run to Port Harrison, POV , Sugluk, Dape Dorset, Iviviuk and back to POV all on the water.

Can you imagine doing that in todays dumbed down culture?

As to the safety issue...I have somewhere around 30,000 hours flying so many different airplanes and helicopters I can't even remember them....never ever had to fill out an accident/incident report which means there was never an insurance claim paid out in my name.

So that must mean that using common sense and knowing the machine you are driving does work.

I like to think of it a self preservation through thinking about what you are doing.

Cat

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:51 am

Cat, what kind of oil burn is expected and expectable on a 1830? I’ll be flying a bird this spring running a similar engine to the 1830, the ASZ 62IR M-18 is a Polish copy used on the Dromader I’ll be flying.

Thanks

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:46 am

Oil burn is all over the map with 1830's depending on how old they are and how loose they have gotten.

I use one imperial gallon per hour per engine for flight planning.

That usually covers it until you get a better oil burn record on them, I keep track of all oil burn and fuel burn as a ongoing check on the health of the engines.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:59 pm

The asz 62 is a clone of the curtiss wright 1820. I was pretty sure but just confirmed. Its 9 cylinder Shvetsov ASh-62IR radial engines are uprated copies of the Wright Cyclone SGR-1820-F-series engines. The ASh-62IR engines are still being built in Poland by PZL-Mielec as the ASz-62IR for the Antonov AN-2 biplane.

4930s · Post by **4930s** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:44 am

Hey Cat, thanks for the info. This flight will be in a Canso and it is covering about 1750 miles, so im guessing roughly 14hrs. what type of TAS would i get out of a canso at 8 to 10 thousand feet gross weight?

and is 72 gal/ hour a recomendable fuel burn for my planning purposes?

thanks

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:19 am

]

quote]Yeh, that was with Austin Airways one of the greatest airlines that Canada ever had. [/quote

Your story brought back many memories CAT.
Hot bunking in Great Whale gave me a bad dose of the Crabs. Sleeping in tent at -40 close to LG2 for a week was so much fun.
I remember pre heating the 3 in POV one New Years Day when it was -80 with the wind chill. I got this bright idea to put my boots in the oven when I returned to the staff house, Bad idea!!! The soles shrunk and I darned near frooze my toes off on the return to YTS. My Captain kept saying "geez your rough on the rudder peddles "

They were a great company when Jack still owned the place. If you arrived like I did as a fresh meat from Southern Ontario but had your Class 1 MIFR you would get a ride when you left to keep it fresh even if they had fired you, which was pretty common thing with JB at the helm. No company on earth operates like that any more.
Loading the pig boat up with fresh fruit and vegies from Blayhee's IGA and flying it north. The back blisters where the good Janitrol was, was my favourite seat to take a rest... after the Captain had taken his. Watching the sun come up while winging over the Hudson Bay coast between Moose and Great Whale while relaxing in the lounge seat gnawing on a Macintosh...... memories

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:32 am

" Hey Cat, thanks for the info. This flight will be in a Canso and it is covering about 1750 miles, so im guessing roughly 14hrs. what type of TAS would i get out of a canso at 8 to 10 thousand feet gross weight?

What nationality is the Cat registered under, because the gross weight can be quite different. Under FAA, CASA, JAR the all up weight is 2,8000 pounds....some Canadian Cats can be 30,500 so your all up weight will make a difference in your TAS for the first part of the trip.

On long hauls I always flight plan 110 knots some Cats are a bit faster than others but by using 110 knots average for a trip that long you will be close......I assume it is over water if it is non stop in which case the winds will really be your determing factor on how long it will take. Low level winds are not all that accurate on the forcasts over oceans as everyone is up in the FL's and that is where you get accurate wind info.

I watch the weather pattern for about a week prior to launch and fly the pressure gradient. It is very important to pay attention to GPS ground speed readout and altitude hunt for the best speeds, if you are transiting the ITCZ penetration altitude of the front is important as the ride can be frightening especially if you are heavy.

Fortunately we now have GPS so point of no return is easy to determine, thirty years ago when I first started long distance flights the point of no return was a lot more difficult to accurately determine.

and is 72 gal/ hour a recomandable fuel burn for my planning purposes?

Yes, 1830's that are running to specs can be safely flight planned at 72 Imp gallons per hour. (325 liters per hour)

Best advice I can give is plan carefully and have several outs if things are looking bad.....

..and I hope you have a good trip.

I have one to move across the South Atlantic this summer...but I ain't going to be in it.

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:10 pm

We (Northern Wings) used to supply a Canso to Austin for the goose hunt in the fall. I was there the last year, 1966, before we sold the Cansos, based in Moose. I remember thinking that it must have been one helluva company to work for. The guys seemed pretty content with their lot. A few years later, I crossed paths with an Austin crew in Frobe. They were hauling to Clyde River, I think it was, and on the next to last day of the contract they blew a starter on the DC-3. The next morning they started the right engine with a rope, and did the last two trips without shutting the engine down. Dedicated bunch of guys.