Sault or Confederation?

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I guess it depends on what "real" world of aviation you are talking about...I chose the Sault because I wanted the multi-IFR, rather than the floats...my first job (after a three month instructing stint) was on a twin doing IFR trips...never did do the bush/float flying, so the Sault worked out well for me.

[mellow_pilot]

Hey CL,

You're absolutly right. The Zlin airframe life has been extended as a result of the experience of the SC program. And yes, I am telling you that they are RELATIVELY new in comparison to some other schools, perhaps not all of confed's planes, but there are plenty of schools with 40 year old 172s out there.

I know the airspace areound T-bay is great too. How does that detract from the soo?
Well where did you mean because from my atlas Thunder Bay is one day closer to Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Yellowknife or do they not count as the rest of the world.

I meant the more populated part of Ontario. (that is, i believe where the original poster is from. Why would someone who is going home to Ottawa or London for the holidays care how far it is to Edmonton?

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to get so insulting. I was simply trying to provide info on the Soo to the poster. He asked, I answered. You'll note that I was fairly even-handed, mentioned the shitty wx, etc. I'm not trying to sugar coat it, alot of people hated the soo. Just trying to provide info in a mainly Confed oriented post. Sorry for trying to help someone.

[Jakob]

Hey, wow great thread, and perfect since I am just doing this right now

I was accepted to Confed and Sault, and chose Confed. I am just finishing a degree now, so I don't need all the other stuff I just want to start flying right away, and Confed gets you out in under 2 years.

About that IFR thing, you do get single-IFR at CC right? Or is that useless...

[AUGER9]

I was accepted to Confed and Sault, and chose Confed. I am just finishing a degree now, so I don't need all the other stuff I just want to start flying right away, and Confed gets you out in under 2 years.

Another difference as well. At Confed you start flying right away. We were suppose to fly the first Thursday of the semester, but wx crapped out and we started on the weekend. Not positive, but I think Soo doesn't start flying until 2nd semester (correct me if im wrong).

[JohnnyHotRocks]

In the Soo, you fly in the third semester (so you spend your first summer in the Soo instead of going home)

Remember to checkout the railway bridge in Garden River on your way up to the Soo...if you look closely you can still faintly see the slogan "this WAS indian land" courtesy of the class of '95

[CLguy]

Jakob no you won't get a single IFR from Con College but you will start flying right away and graduate in 18 months not 2 years as previously reported. You will start in September 2007 and graduate April 2008.

Mellow_pilot this thread is about comparing Sault College to Con College so why the need to relate Sault aircraft to other mom and pop flying clubs. You won't find any 40 year old aircraft in Con Colleges inventory so lets call it like it is. The Zlin is an outdated aircraft that had to have its life extended or the Sault program would have shut down because there is no money to replace them.

Also you make if very clear that in your opinion the real world is in Southern Ontario which really pisses off a lot of people including me and why would anyone who is going home to Kenora for the holidays care how far it is to Ottawa or London.

[funkyole1]

thanks for your repplies guys but now i am kind of confused about the rating in confederation. Do i get multi engine rating from there or not. and I get regular ifr but not mifr from my understanding, if someone knows in detail what confederation has please list. And someone mentioned in here that confederation program is 18 month while on conf site it says its a 2.5 year program only 6 month shorter than that of Sault program...

[Jakob]

Ok, I'm pretty positive you get sIFR from CC, just not mIFR. And they say "2 1/2 years" only because it is the equivalent of that many semesters in other schools. You go for 5 straight semesters, so you (and I) will start Sept 07, and graduate April 09. It is actually under 2 years that you are in school.

[shimmydampner]

You do NOT get any IFR rating at all. You do however receive a full IFR groundschool and IFR sim training in the Frasca 142 and Baron simulators. When you leave Confed you will be prepared for the IFR but not rated. Beyond the CPL the only rating/endorsement you get is a float endorsement. If you guys are going to the school you should have researched this a little better to at least know for sure exactly what you are getting.
I went to Confed back in the good old days of the old hangar and it was a fantastic experience and prepared me for exactly the type of flying I wanted to do far better than the Sioux could have.

[. ._]

Mellow_pilot this thread is about comparing Sault College to Con College so why the need to relate Sault aircraft to other mom and pop flying clubs. You won't find any 40 year old aircraft in Con Colleges inventory so lets call it like it is. The Zlin is an outdated aircraft that had to have its life extended or the Sault program would have shut down because there is no money to replace them.

Also you make if very clear that in your opinion the real world is in Southern Ontario which really pisses off a lot of people including me and why would anyone who is going home to Kenora for the holidays care how far it is to Ottawa or London.

WOAH! I sense some hostility here!

CLGuy, mellow_pilot doesn't hate northern Ontario, and I'm pretty sure there's a bit of a communication gap between the 2 of ya. The internet can do that to totally level headed, rational pilots which I'm sure the both of you are. I know mellow_pilot is, anyways, and I'd guess you are too judging by your posts.

Let's all just chill. It's all good.

-istp

[funkyole1]

so conf does not give multi engine rating?

[CLguy]

Jakob, sorry I should have posted you will graduate in April 2009 not 2008. Like was stated you will actually complete 5 semesters and will receive an Advanced Diploma because of it in 18 months. Not sure what more that will do for you other than get you an extra credit or two towards a degree if you ever decided to pursue it.

Shimmydampner is right on the money as far as what you will receive from Con College and that is probably why the head of the Sault Aviation Program has his son attending Con College.

Istp you are probably right! Just can't understand why the need for the slant in his posts. The Zlins have been around for years, have already gone beyond their allowable life, had to get them extended or shut down the program and are far older than the majority of the Con College fleet of 172's. I also can't find anywhere that even hints that the original poster is from southern Ontario which apparently was the reason for his real world comments.

Obviously I'm just a little too testy about these things so I will take a chill pill.

[funkyole1]

Jakob, sorry I should have posted you will graduate in April 2009 not 2008. Like was stated you will actually complete 5 semesters and will receive an Advanced Diploma because of it in 18 months. Not sure what more that will do for you other than get you an extra credit or two towards a degree if you ever decided to pursue it.

Shimmydampner is right on the money as far as what you will receive from Con College and that is probably why the head of the Sault Aviation Program has his son attending Con College.

Istp you are probably right! Just can't understand why the need for the slant in his posts. The Zlins have been around for years, have already gone beyond their allowable life, had to get them extended or shut down the program and are far older than the majority of the Con College fleet of 172's. I also can't find anywhere that even hints that the original poster is from southern Ontario which apparently was the reason for his real world comments.

Obviously I'm just a little too testy about these things so I will take a chill pill.

I am from toronto

[AUGER9]

so conf does not give multi engine rating?

No, you get a 25 hr float rating instead. Also some tail-wheel and ski time. But what is your first job going to be? Most likely either an instructor or flying floats. And you don't need a multi for either of those. They figure it will help you get your first job easier. No need to leave school and have to get another rating in order to work somewhere.

[mellow_pilot]

Yeah CL, I think istp's got it right. I'm really not trying to be slanted toward the Soo. There was just no info posted as of the point when I originally commented, so I thought I'd offer some info. I do think you're a little off in the way you characterize the whole airframe extention, the life extension program was only really needed cause the Sault C planes went past what Morovan ever dreamed. They hadn't really dealt with any fleets other than military ones, which used up the aerobatic life far before the normal categorey limit was reached. It doesn't mean that they are in any way out-dated or unsafe. The maint folks up there are top notch, and the planes are well taken care of. I would sooner fly a life-extened Zlin which is monitored than a pile of metal fatigue from the 60s which is grandfathered and has no life limit. Maybe I still think of them as only 6 years old, like when I started. I really don't know what Confed has in terms of planes these days, and since I've never been there, I wasn't about to make any sort of direct comparison. I'm just saying that in my experience, SC aircraft are maintained better than average. And the Zlin handles much nicer than a 172

As for the Toronto thing, I guess I must have assumed it. I really don't think of the rest of the world as the GTA (far from it) but the reality is that the Toronto area contributed the bulk of my classmates. I also have a cousin and friend that went to Lakehead, and the trek back and forth to the St Lawrence seaway, and the Ottawa valley, respectively, was really annoying for them.

Again, I'm not trying to say don't go confed, but there are reasons why someone might choose Sault. If you want bush and a quicker start, go Confed, it's probably the better bet. If you're looking to upgrade to a degree at some point (I got 2 years worth of credit to a degree), or you're not in a rush and like the idea of MIFR, SC is an option. (also business classes hold no interest for me, I really appreciated the technical aspect of the academics, except bloody calculus)

PS Sault C does start flying second semester (upto the solo stage) if you meet the academic requirements for flying.

[Bush League]

This debate is pointless.

If you are really worried about getting out into the workforce quickly, then do your licenses privately. If then you dream of the dock and scrubbing exhaust asap, take a 50hr float coarse. If you want to do training up to the multi-ifr level in a thorough and professional college environment, then choose Seneca or Sault. Most of the grads choose to instruct or ramp, and having a multi-ifr is very beneficial for both of those routes. Of the classmates who chose to continue with a commercial flying career, I can’t name one who hadn’t used their multi-ifr within a year of graduation. And because your first job will probably pay you peanuts, having expensive multi and ifr training paid for at the Sault is worth the extra year and other trivial things. It just depends on what you want to do, I suppose.

I wouldn’t give up the chance to fly a Zlin though. Nobody ever regrets that.

[DHQ]

Which one will land you a job quicker? I don't think it matters at all really. A fresch CPL is a fresh CPL.

I think doing it privately in a few months is a good express route.. 3 years really is a long time. Although I agree with whoever said it was a good time with friends.. I did enjoy the 3 years of partying and nonsense.

When it comes down to picking either Sault or Confed, this is all I can tell you: I graduated from Sault College and didn't like it. I thought the actual training was good, but the attitude of the staff was a real downer. I always felt like they were working against us (there were some good instructors there too). I've heard recent stories of sessional instructors intentionally giving a hard time to students they didn't like... and that kind of stuff just makes my blood boil.

On the other hand, I think my views are among the minority for my class.. most guys really liked it. I did my PPL at a private flying club, and I thought it was a night and day difference in customer service between to the two.

A few friends went to Confed and loved it.

That's about all I know.

Good luck.

[CGZMT]

Either program will work. The will both give you a cpl with either a ifr or a float rating. I picked confed because born and raised in NWO. There are alot of operators up here just as you may have around you. I got accepted to both but choose confed because it was close to home as well as there was alot of operators closeby that could offer emplyement. I myself, can't see me flying right seat teaching someone what i love todo without doing it, I might be overcontrolling at times and not allow the student to fly. But scrubing exhaust and oil stains I don't mind doing, cause once your done and stand back you can see what you have accomplished and I am not afraid of a long days work!

[YACdirect]

I don't knwo what SC offers, but:

CONFEDERATION COLLEGE:
- CPL
- Night Rating
- Seaplane endorsement (C172, R172K, C180)
- Some ski / taildragger time (C180)

You get a IFR groundschool and the opportunity to write the INRAT exam (for the TC fee, of course). You will get SEIFR experience in the Frasca sim (loggable as a FTD) and MEIFR experience in the level 6 BE58 sim - which i believe 40% of your time is loggable towards a MEIFR rating since the sim they have is considered to be equal to the actual airplane. It is an impressive machine, by the way.

I don't know if they still have the old GAT trainer - that in itself is an impressive relic which is more demanding than any airplane to "fly". At any rate GAT time still counts towards your sim time for the INST time.

You do not get an instrument or multi-engine rating, but you would be in a fantastic position to leave CC and go to Perimeter and finish it off. Then, you would have CPL, seaplane and ME-IFR.

My $0.02

[lucky37]

Someone mentioned earlier that the weather isn't the best in the Soo. All I can add to that is, at Confed we were required to do a cross-counrty to the Soo and back. Well, it took most of the summer to finally get there as day after day the Soo was full of bad weather, while in T-bay there was sunshine. The Soo has a bad reputation for weather, being lots of snow in the winter and lots of thunderstorms in the summer.

Besides that, I agree with others who say that it all depends on what you want to do. Go to Confed if you wanna get into the float world, and go to Soo if you wanna get into the IFR world. But there are MANY paths to get to the same place.

I myself went to Confed during the old hangar days (last graduating year there) and wrote the INRAT outta college, just in case. I got a job right outta college (they called me), but it was on the dock/flying. No problem, I stayed there and eventually got to fly a beaver for them.

Now I'm moving on to the MIFR world. Am I glad I went that route? Yes I am. I don't regret not getting my MIFR earlier cuz I wouldn't have used it. Now that I have some time under my belt I can get my MIFR and use it right away, now that I have decided I want to go that route.

If I had to choose all over again I would choose Confed. Am I biased? Prolly. But I know the instructors there and you are in good hands. I have nothing negative to say about that place.

[Brize]

Just flip a coin ............ don't look back, and enjoy your LAST summer of having something other than only aviation to talk about with the rest of the world.

[mellow_pilot]

Just flip a coin ............ don't look back, and enjoy your LAST summer of having something other than only aviation to talk about with the rest of the world.

HAHA I nearly pissed myself!!!
Pilot talking to girls: planes.
Pilot talking to pilot: planes and girls.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

To Clarify for prospective students:

Confederation DOES NOT provide an IFR of any sort. Not single or multi engine. NO IFR! So stop saying it does!

They do however provide some pretty good IFR ground school, which helps students pass the written. They also do provide some limited IFR training in a Baron simulator they have there, although she does have the tendancy to break at times.

Is it a drag not to get the IFR? Yes. However, there are not very many entry level positions flying IFR these days, although there are some. So is it necessary to have it? No. Is it nice to have it? Yes. It's kind of like a float rating in that sense.

In my opinion, take Con College. However, grads from both schools are excellent and really there is no wrong decision here.
Good Luck!

[Jeremy]

If you like politics and BS, mixed with prof/instructor built-up fear of failing out, then go to the Sault.

[mellow_pilot]

If you like politics and BS, mixed with prof/instructor built-up fear of failing out, then go to

any flight school.