Things you don't read about on Avcanada...

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:01 am

Anyone want to take a guess what I'm talking about in regards to the Canadian Forces in Afgahnistan?

Where are my anti-American bubbas out there? Or are you arms too sore from throwing stones at glass houses?

Happy hunting.

Stan_Cooper · Post by **Stan_Cooper** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:14 am

You must be referring to the MCpl who was just charged with manslaughter relating to the death of a soldier in his unit in Afghanistan (PPLCI if I'm not mistaken.)

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:41 am

Bingo.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:03 am

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007 ... 6-sun.html

By ROSS ROMANIUK, SUN MEDIA

The wife of a soldier accidentally shot and killed by a close friend while in Afghanistan says she has reached out to support the close friend charged in his death.

Master Cpl. Jeffrey Walsh, 33, of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry regiment, was killed Aug. 9 near Kandahar by a single shot while sitting in a G-Wagon during a routine patrol.

Yesterday, the National Investigative Service (NIS), an independent police unit of the Canadian Forces, charged Master Cpl. Robbie Fraser of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry regiment with one count of manslaughter and one count of negligent performance of duty under the National Defence Act in connection with Walsh's death.

EMOTIONAL

Walsh's wife, Julie Mason, told Sun Media she is too "emotional about everything right now" to discuss the tragedy and charges in detail, but pointed out Fraser and her husband were close friends.

"I've just let Rob know that I'm here for him. He's going through enough," Mason, a 29-year-old mother of three children, said from her home just outside the Shilo military base, located about 170 km west of Winnipeg.

"I don't agree with what has been given to him as charges go. Rob was a good friend of Jeff, and what is taking place right now I don't agree with. I can't go into any more detail as to why I don't agree, but I don't."

Fraser has returned to his home at the Shilo base, where he could not be reached for comment.

It's uncertain when Fraser might go before a military trial. Defence Department officials said several steps remain to determine when -- and even if -- that will happen.

"There's quite a series of individuals who have to make considerations on it," said Lieut. Carole Brown, a military spokeswoman.

The case will be referred to Fraser's commanding officer, who will consult lawyers before deciding whether he should face trial. The file will then be sent to a commander who will forward it to a director of military prosecutions.

Brown could not say how long those steps would take.

Ben Walsh, Jeffrey's father, said he wants the Fraser family to avoid "the pain and suffering that we went through" in dealing with the NIS.

"It wouldn't matter what charge is laid. It won't bring my son back," Ben Walsh said yesterday from his Regina home.

"I can't say I'm happy or sad (about the charges). It closes a chapter in this book. We just move on. And one day I'll get to meet Robbie and his family. He and his family are in a lot of pain and suffering and grief right now."

Ben Walsh said he and his wife, Margie, have endured months of unacceptable delays in getting even basic information on the circumstances of their son's death. He added he has talked to the family in Stellarton, N.S. of Cpl. Kevin Megeney, 25, a reservist killed this month in a tent at a Canadian base in Kandahar.

"The National Investigative Service has not been too co-operative. They have to learn to get along with the public, let alone grieving families," Walsh said, adding he has "stressed this" to Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defence staff.

Hillier and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor are visiting Canadian troops in Afghanistan. Military officials said they will not be available for comment until tomorrow.

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:10 am

You might prefer reading the bbc.co.uk or maybe even cbc.ca if you are into that stuff. If you're coming here for your daily dose of political debate, you have serious issues.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:50 am

Well, how exactly did they come to terms with those charges? (one count of manslaughter and one count of negligent performance of duty)

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:09 am

Golden Flyer wrote:Well, how exactly did they come to terms with those charges? (one count of manslaughter and one count of negligent performance of duty)

I believe the simple answer is that his weapon was discharged when it shouldn't have been, and a soldier died as a result. Note it's not murder. The charges don't necessarily mean it wasn't an accident, but the soldier in question still carries the responsibility.

And Nark, I'm not sure what you're getting at? Are you trying to imply something about the reaction on avcanada to the bombing of allies by American forces? If that's the case, I think you'll notice an immediate difference, when one of ours commits fratricide we hold them accountable. Also, I would suggest that accidental discharge of a firearm (if that is indeed the case) is quite different from ignoring a hold order and intentionally employing large-scale weapons. That said, the soldier is charged, and rightly so. He will have his day in court.

I can't say I know all the details, but it would seem to me that the CF brought charges against one of their own, without public outrage making it a political necessity.

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:34 am

mellow_pilot,

you say it perfectly.

nark, I'm not sure I see your point in comparing a US pilot bombing Canadian troops with a Canadian soldier accidentally shooting a Canadian soldier...? Schmidt does not exactly come across as the class act you may want representing the US military...by all accounts he still denies any wrongdoing. The other pilot seems to have dropped out out of sight with a bit more class...

If you choose to interpret the wrath of people against aggressive negligence as "anti-American" it's only revealing your own biases...sure there were a few axe-grinders but most people were more concerned with the facts of that event (the friendly fire Guard cowboys), than the nationalities of those involved!

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:56 pm

When post's like "Why the world hate Americans," turns into a 7 million page thread, it kind of make me wonder.

Comparing Maj. Schmitt's case to this makes me think you don't know anything about what happened. Soldiers died by friendly fire, but HE WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY by a court martial. The UCMJ under which he was tried, is different from the American law you see on Law and Order.

I have no sympathy for this MCpl. Nor do I have any for Maj Schmitt.
Controls are put in place to prevent these "accidents." Some where along the line, they were ignored or disregarded.

Am I biased? I am human, I look at the facts, make an opinion and if the facts change so does my opinion. If you don't like what I have to say, or the way I say, by all means skip over what I post. I certainly apply the same for others in here.

Crazymax · Post by **Crazymax** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:58 pm

Aren't the "go/no-go" pills allowed in USAF?

Max

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:24 pm

Nark, you didn't say anything!!! You just made a vague post and left it up to us to determine what the hell you meant, don't be pissed if we misunderstood, we're not friggin mind readers.

So please, what is it that you were trying to get across?

CD · Post by CD » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:35 pm

MCpl. Walsh, 33, was just six days into his tour of duty -- his second in Afghanistan -- when he was killed. He was married and the father of three young children.

He and MCpl. Fraser were travelling together in the cramped confines of a G-wagon armoured vehicle. They were on patrol on a bumpy road with other Canadian troops to familiarize themselves with local conditions and hazards.

The Forces follow the civilian Criminal Code in defining manslaughter as "culpable homicide" that falls short of murder. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

Negligent performance of duty is a violation of the National Defence Act with a maximum penalty of disgraceful dismissal from the Canadian Forces.

In the army's view, accidentally discharging a weapon is an inexcusable error for infantry members.

"An infantryman must be an expert with his weapon," Lieutenant-Colonel Don Denne said in a 2003 interview after summarily convicting two of his soldiers of negligence in accidental-discharge incidents. "In a light battalion, that is our bread and butter."

MCpl. Fraser was formally charged at CFB Shilo. He has not been held in custody, according to Lieutenant-Commander Pierre Bobinsky, a military spokesman.

The weapon involved was a standard-issue C-7 combat rifle.

Captain Mark Giles, an NIS spokesman, said at the time of the shooting last August that MCpl. Walsh appeared to have been hit by a round fired accidentally.

The army trains all its soldiers to follow a number of safety protocols that should eliminate the possibility of an accidental discharge of a weapon. But weapons are usually fully loaded when soldiers are on patrol in Kandahar province, the scene of many insurgent attacks on NATO forces, including suicide car bombings.

Chambering bullets involves cocking the weapon, bringing a single bullet into the firing chamber. Firing it requires the safety lever to be off and the trigger to be depressed.

The procedure to clear and load weapons is formalized. Convoys heading out of the base stop at a berm just outside the main gate to load and ready their weapons; on the way back in, they stop at the same place to clear them. Soldiers must ensure their weapons are cleared before entering camp and, unless otherwise ordered, must remove the ammunition magazines.

Soldier faces life sentence in comrade's fatal shooting

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:37 pm

The point I'm trying to make is simple. When an American servicmen messes up, I read about it here.

When a Canadian fucks up, not a peep is mentioned here.

Hypocritical perhaps?

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:04 pm

What's to mention? The soldier in question has been charged and there has been little, if any, contraversy. There was no public attempt to shift blame. I don't see how it's hipocritical. The situations are entirely different. The Canadian soldier did not engage a target. There was an accident, and he is being held accountable.

It's not that we hate Americans in general. I think the reason that there is such strong reaction to the American "mess ups", is that there is usually a cover up and a lack of justice which follows. It's the lack of justice which allows for the same thing to happen over and over, as there are few or no consequences for actions taken.

So far, I haven't heard the MCpl. blame intellegence, inter-unit communication, or claim self-defence. Also, there is very little information availible on the issue. I'm sure as more information is released (I would guess this will happen after the trial, if there is one) people will form stronger opinions. As it sits, there is no damning video, no remorseless face on TV whose lawyer is blaming everyone but them.

To sum up, the guy f-ed up, he's being charged for it. The justice system seems to be working in this case. What is there to bitch about?

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:55 pm

There's a major difference between deliberately rolling on to a target and dropping a Mk 82 on it in defiance of orders to hold fire and accidentally discharging a rifle. Especially since a hard jolt to the base of the rifle can get the bolt moving. Note, I don't know if that happened or not, we'll have to wait for the trial. I would think that a marine would appreciate the difference between the two.

The other difference of course is that our unfortunate infantryman; to judge by the support he has received from the father and widow of the friend he accidentally killed, has shown a great deal of remorse for what happened. Do you suppose that Schmidt is going to show any remorse or even acknowledge he was in the wrong any time in the next decade or so?

TG · Post by TG » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:56 am

I couldn't have say it better shitdisturber!

Nark, honnestly your topic is just here to had fuel to this antiamerica felling you are complaining about.
But if you manage to realise your error...

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:35 am

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories

'This was an attack -- a sneak attack,' Master Cpl. Collin Fitzgerald told CTV Ottawa on Tuesday.

Fitzgerald, 27, suffered a broken nose, two black eyes and needed 10 stitches to close a cut above his right eye.

He also had his foot broken in three places.

Fitzgerald was recognized by Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean on Feb. 19 for braving enemy fire in Afghanistan.

Soldier calls nasty bar beating a 'sneak attack'
Updated Tue. Mar. 13 2007 10:40 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A soldier honoured for his military valour in Afghanistan is wondering why strangers attacked and beat him in his hometown bar this past weekend.

"This wasn't two guys on the ice dropping gloves and going, 'OK, let's go'," Master Cpl. Collin Fitzgerald told CTV Ottawa on Tuesday.

"This was an attack -- a sneak attack. To blindside a guy ... and hit him with an object, there's something wrong."

Fitzgerald is well known in Morrisburg, Ont., a small town about an hour's drive south of Ottawa.

He says he'd been in the bar only about 20 minutes late Friday, visiting with a childhood friend who introduced him to people as a war hero, when he was suddenly struck from behind with some type of object. Four men jumped him and began beating on him.

"They were saying 'What kind of hero are you now?'," Fitzgerald's mother Arlene told CTV News. Bystanders pulled the attackers off Fitzgerald and his friends drove him to hospital.

"If it was true that they said that, then they're ignorant," Fitzgerald said.

The weapons instructor at CFB Trenton, recognized by Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean on Feb. 19 for braving enemy fire in Afghanistan, had his foot broken in three places and needed 10 stitches to close a cut above his right eye.

Fitzgerald, 27, also suffered a broken nose and two black eyes in the Friday night attack.

"Whatever he hit me with, he could have easily taken out an eye," the soldier said. "What if he hit me in the throat? It could have been an artery." Fitzgerald is married, with a young family.

Decorated hero

He served eight months in Afghanistan. He was one of the first recipients of the Canadian Medal of Military Valour, "for outstanding selfless and valiant actions" carried out on May 24, 2006, during an enemy ambush "involving intense, accurate enemy fire."

According to the military, Fitzgerald "repeatedly exposed himself to enemy fire by entering and re-entering a burning platoon vehicle and successfully driving it off the roadway, permitting the remaining vehicles trapped in the enemy zone to break free."

"Collin was safer fighting the Taliban. At least he saw the enemy coming, or knew the enemy was there," said his mother. "They are just total cowards, nothing but snakes," said Gerald, Collin's father.

Fitzgerald will need at least a month to recover from his injuries. Several of his army buddies are still recovering from injuries suffered in Afghanistan.

"They don't realize how good we have it here in Canada and what we're trying to help the Afghan people have," he said of his attackers.

Ontario Provincial Police have arrested 21-year-old Travis Baldwin, a Morrisburg resident and hockey player, and charged him with aggravated assault. An investigation is ongoing.

Baldwin will appear in Morrisburg court on May 1. CTV Ottawa has learned he may be the only person criminally charged in connection with the incident.

With a report from CTV's Rosemary Thompson and CTV Ottawa's Chris Day

StudentPilot · Post by **StudentPilot** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:50 am

Driving Rain wrote: Ontario Provincial Police have arrested 21-year-old Travis Baldwin, a Morrisburg resident and hockey player, and charged him with aggravated assault. An investigation is ongoing.

Baldwin will appear in Morrisburg court on May 1. CTV Ottawa has learned he may be the only person criminally charged in connection with the incident.

Great. He'll probably get a few years in prison, and be out in a fraction of the time...

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:20 am

StudentPilot wrote:
Driving Rain wrote: Ontario Provincial Police have arrested 21-year-old Travis Baldwin, a Morrisburg resident and hockey player, and charged him with aggravated assault. An investigation is ongoing.

Baldwin will appear in Morrisburg court on May 1. CTV Ottawa has learned he may be the only person criminally charged in connection with the incident.
Great. He'll probably get a few years in prison, and be out in a fraction of the time...

To bad the guys a friggin goon. What really needs to happen is he gets sent to Afganistan and find out for himself what real heroism is.
If I were his judge I give him the opportunity to sign up with PPCLI. He must complete his basic and advanced training he would have to serve honourably. If he broke any rules or discraced himself in any way he'd be off to prison. If I were to guess, I'd say this guy was a grade 9 reject knuckle dragger and couldn't make the grade.

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:56 am

Driving Rain wrote: What really needs to happen is he gets sent to Afganistan and find out for himself what real heroism is.
If I were his judge I give him the opportunity to sign up with PPCLI. He must complete his basic and advanced training he would have to serve honourably. If he broke any rules or discraced himself in any way he'd be off to prison. If I were to guess, I'd say this guy was a grade 9 reject knuckle dragger and couldn't make the grade.

I couldn't agree more.
Either that or take him up to Petawawa, let the boys know who and what this guy is and have a little game called "man hunt"

-=0=LiR=0=-

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:32 pm

Funny how they describe him as a "hockey player". I'm gonna take flack for this, but some people play hockey, and then there are "hockey players". Freakin' goons who never grew beyond being highschool jocks with no brains.

Met one guy while working a summer job who went on and on about his minor hockey career. Buddy was in his mid 40s and hadn't played in more than a couple decades, but still clung to that identity. Half the time when he was asked a question I expected hime to say, "come out and win it in the third!!!!"

I really don't understand why people go to a bar and become total assholes. There is no reason to instigate a fight at a bar. Buddy should be banned from drinking, that'll fix his little red wagon.

Resume squawking 1200...

CD · Post by CD » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:37 pm

Jr. B hockey defenceman charged in soldier's beating

Andrew Seymour, Ottawa Citizen
Published: Tuesday, March 13, 2007

A rugged star defencemen for the Morrisburg Jr. B Lions hockey team has been identified as the man accused of attacking decorated Canadian soldier Collin Fitzgerald in a bar fight.

Travis Baldwin, 21, was charged this week with aggravated assault after the 27-year-old Medal of Military Valour recipient suffered a broken foot, broken nose, and required 10 stitches to close a cut above his eye after being beaten up by four men in a sports bar in his hometown of Morrisburg.

Following the beating, witnesses told Master Cpl. Fitzgerald one of the men said, "What kind of a f--king hero are you now' as he was being pulled off of him.

Provincial police released Mr. Baldwin's name on Tuesday after confirming the charge had been processed by the court.

When reached at his home, Mr. Baldwin declined to comment except to say the full story would come out in court.

"I'm not supposed to say anything," he said.

Witnesses said Master Cpl. Fitzgerald, who was awarded the medal on Feb. 19 by Gov.-Gen. Michaelle Jean for bravery under fire in Afghanistan, had been in a verbal confrontation with another bar patron shortly before he was attacked.

However, witnesses said the disagreement seemed to have been resolved before Master Cpl. Fitzgerald was beaten up.

The Old Fogducker · Post by **The Old Fogducker** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:23 pm

Fisticuffs ... the main reason I don't like NHL hockey anymore.

It just shows me that this particular subset of buffoons aren't able to play a game with even the most basic of sportsman-like conduct. Fighting just doesn't seem to be as popular in any other sport regardless of the pressure to win, or the money at stake.

I used to play hockey as a kid, but mostly lacrosse for about 5 years .. not exactly a wimps game.

The moment anyone would fight, they'd get a strong penalty and a damned good talking to by the coach telling us how the fighter had left the rest of the team short a man because he couldn't control himself and apply his talents to solving the problem instead of behaving like a 4 year old who had his dump truck taken away.

"Yeah, but it was a dirty hit" would be said from time to time. Coach would say, "Be a man and take it on the chin, then come back and outplay the opponent on the next set. Don't be a baby."

From my perspective, fans of the NHL seem to highly revere and defend some hot-headed bozo with an IQ number slightly higher than his neck size who just can't seem to keep his temper under control. "You ain't a man" unless you're ready to drop somebody for looking at you the wrong way and thereby showing you disrespect. Punk gangster wannabes in east LA gangs behave that way.

My 15 year old nephew plays organized league hockey and thinks its just great to be out of the "little kid's leagues" because now he is able to throw super tough checks and get into fights on the ice or in the parking lot after the game if somebody doesn't like being slammed into the boards or maginally cross-checked. I asked him why, and he told me he sees it on TV all the time....a great behaviour example for young people in their formative years.

I can see him now as he gets the hots for some young cutie and goes into a bank to apply for a car loan in a few short years ... "Don't qualify? Whadya mean I don't qualify ...WHAP WHAP WHAP... take that you paper-pushing piece of crap! I really wanted that car" A great way to deal with those who frustrate you in life....cure it with a pop in the chops.

Those overpaid NHL hot-heads that screw up the game should be forced to take Anger Management Classes in my opinion....thats the modern day equivalent of emasculation or a verbal version of chemical castration.

NHL fans would be perhaps more entertained by some lions chewing up Christians ... or maybe a ritual disembowling under the spotlights during the half time show. How about a snuff film based on NHL hockey? Those fans would really suck that up after a few brewskis.

If I want to see a fight .. and sometimes I do ... I'll watch a pro fighter ..like a Mohammad Ali vs George Forman rerun or maybe a full contact Karate match .. not some bozo who fights like a drunken 22 year old outside a bar after last call because somebody asked his girl for a dance.

If I'm studying the constructive application of violence, and because I'm ex-Army Infantry ..sometimes I do ..I'll watch some clips of the Iraq or Afganistan mission where some piece of crap Taliban or Al Quiada member gets his head blown off by a proficient sniper in classic "One shot one kill" style.

They'll need to clean up the NHL if they ever want to appeal to me again. A no fighting policy would be bad for the ticket sales and TV ratings, so a few good punchups per game will always be there.

Hockey team managers will continue to laud the behaviour behind closed doors over a few beers with the boys while explaining to the modern day gladiator they have to put on a mock trial to appease some offended regulator grovelling for votes or a group of namby-pamby peaceniks .... but not to let it bother them because its all for show.

Life will return to normally quickly enough and there will be lots and lots of money to be made that will more than cover the lost revenues by sitting out a few games.

Regards,
Fog

The Old Fogducker · Post by **The Old Fogducker** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:33 pm

CD:

Thanks for posting that news story .. exactly what I'm talking about ... a vacant-staring, mouth breathing lout who can't make his point without "dropping the gloves" and talking with his fists.

What a big man he is!

He's a piece of scum in my opinion who deserves to end up doing federal time where his bung hole will become so loose, he can't hold in a crap for 5 seconds.

Fog

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:12 pm

http://www.freewebs.com/lionsjrb/

Our guestbook has temporarily been with drawn due to the vulgar posts. We will re open the guestbook at a latter date.

2007-03-14 Morrisburg Jr. “B” Lions

Defenceman Travis Baldwin has been suspended by the Morrisburg JR. “B” Lions Hockey club indefinitely.

No Shit.
http://www.morrisburglions.20m.com/stats.htm
http://www.morrisburglions.20m.com/05stats.htm
Stats for Mr. Baldwin aren't surprising.
Future goal is to be a bus driver.

http://www.morrisburglions.20m.com/baldwin.htm

He's at one of these numbers let him know how you feel.
http://www.whitepages.com/10001/log_fea ... ting=mixed