Incase ya missed it check your mailbox's ASAP.
So what do you all think of us basically taking a $5/HR pay cut? Not what I was told in the interview stage, or agreed to. Wow this is gonna do great things for company moral among us newbies... Jazz must really be looking to lose the majority of it's new hires...
Koolaid anyone?
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The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Im not sure i'm seeing the picture here. As far as I can tell there is no difference ... sure they dropped the hourly $5 bux but they increased the amount of hours paid ... doesn't it still equal out in the end? It doesn't look like the end result has changed, just the way you come to that end.
tripple seven
The job itself is good, but with AC turning guys down, Jazz hiring no time pilots and now basically a paycut...common, who wouldn't get alittle pissed off.
Loc, it means that the extra 5-10 hours you've been getting each month is gone. I was hired at 75 hours and anything extra is money in the bank, 85 hours min is not what I or others agreed to. And since the CA was not handed to me untill after I was hired I had no way of knowing otherwise...neither did the bean counters untill now it appears.
Sure the salary is the same, but the hourly rate has dropped, all the extra is all but gone. Lower over time, and from what I can gather I'm guessing we'll be blocked at 85 hours each month now - so less days off.
To me this is a paycut.
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The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Probably wont be as much of a pay cut as that you'll be working a helluva lot more for the same money. Pretty much impossible to get any overtime now and also, this is the worst part:
Next time you sit for 30 mins waiting for lazy AC ramp crew, you're doing it for free now unless you're past 85 hrs for the month!
It makes me think of the rant that Clark Griswald goes on in Christmas Vacation when he finds he has been enrolled in the jelly of the month club instead of getting his Christmas bonus. If I could quote it all I would...
..."if this isn't the biggest bag over the head punch in the face...."
After doing some looking into our CA, I can see where there is some confusion related to an * by the first and second year salary F/O's, and a * with a note "based on a maxium of 85 credits per month" PG 10-5. This referes to overtime being paid at 1.5 hours after 85 hours at a calcualted hourly rate as we are salary. NO MENTION OF 85 HOURS IS MIN FOR US ANYWHERE.
After reading the section about pay, natural block growth, reserve and so on, it really sounds like Jazz MGMT has confussed min credits with overtime after 85 hours and what hourly rate we would be paid as a salary pilot, not 85 hours is the min.
If 85 is the min, then this brings a few questions to mind...On reserve you are only guaranteed 75 hours - so does this mean that pilots on reserve and not flying 85 hours would they take a pay cut? If not then why should block holders work essentially 10 hours for free?
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The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
There has been a lot of discussion on Jazz newhire pay, and it boiled down to this: The salary is based on 75 hours, so fly 85 hours, and take home ~$21-2200/month plus perdiems, so $35k becomes manageable. That's why most of us took the job, we figured this way we could make it work.
With the new memo, Jazz newhire take home pay first year without overtime is in the neighbourhood of $1730/month
BC I think this thread is about trying to figure out what the memo is actually saying. If it is saying the pay was wrong initially and we are correcting it - the bitching will come next.
When I started I assumed that min guarantee was 75 hours and that it corresponded to min pay which in the first 2 years was salary. Anything above 75 hours was paid at 1st or 2nd year rate as appropriate. I believe that is how we have been paid.
Now, if I understand correctly, they are saying that min guarantee is 75 hours but the min salary goes with the max hours which is 85 hours. So both reserve pilots and blockers will all get a pay cut or pay ADJUSTMENT. Reserves were paid what the blockers will now get paid and the blockers were getting OT that they should not have been.
Does that sound correct?
Now the problem lies with the way it was sold to us originally and the way it is being corrected with us now. I can hardly live with what I am being paid now and they want to lessen it.
Rem wrote:With the new memo, Jazz newhire take home pay first year without overtime is in the neighbourhood of $1730/month
Incredible; I know people who earn $1730 in a less than two weeks (take home) driving truck. Now I know you can't compare flying airplanes and being responsible for dozens of peoples lives to driving a tuck for a living, but c'mon now....
haven't seen the memo yet, but If I don't make any extra cash for flying above the min 75h, I'll go on the reserve or make sure I'm sick a few days every month, one occurrence a month for the next 7 month I have left to do....and I won't get in trouble
Looking at the contract it doesn't say anything about more cash above 75h for the first 2 years, only overtime over 85h, I see where the management is coming from, It's going to cost them in a different way.....but Jazz has money, they'll just have to train more people to cover the guys booking off at the end of the month
Rem wrote:
With the new memo, Jazz newhire take home pay first year without overtime is in the neighbourhood of $1730/month
Dear farckin god tell me that this is not true, I make that in 2 weeks, TAKE HOME. And please let me know soon. I got my medical tomorrow and if this is true than If offered I maybe sayin kiss off.
Oh also is it not illegal to change ones salary without there approval.
I am going to Africa to do a type rating on a Cat.
To earn $1730 Canadian I will only have to fly 4.5 hours.
And my per dieums are $100 USD per day for food, I get a rental car and a minimum of a 4 star hotel and a mobile phone plus business class on the airlines.
Why the vast difference in pay?
Maybe it is because you guys are being used?
Ask Jazz why there is such a vast difference in pay and get back to me, I would be interested in how they spin you.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
pilotbzh wrote:haven't seen the memo yet, but If I don't make any extra cash for flying above the min 75h, I'll go on the reserve or make sure I'm sick a few days every month, one occurrence a month for the next 7 month I have left to do....and I won't get in trouble
Looking at the contract it doesn't say anything about more cash above 75h for the first 2 years, only overtime over 85h, I see where the management is coming from, It's going to cost them in a different way.....but Jazz has money, they'll just have to train more people to cover the guys booking off at the end of the month
If you go reserve and don't fly you will make 10 hours LESS pay than the adjusted pay for 85 hours. They are adjusting the pay for everyone - at least that is how I am reading it. Right now you will make the salary for 75 hours and if you work more you make whatever the hourly rate is for the extra time. The adjusted pay will mean you make the salary for 85 hours and make that much less for 75 hours if on reserve, etc.
I thought the pay was in error from the beginning. At $35200 per year based on 85 hrs comes to about $34 an hour. We were being paid based on min 85hrs (*) unlike year 3 and up which are paid based on 75hrs. A year 3 will make more money after 75hrs but a new hire will not.
This should only affect WDO's and overtime. Nothing else will change.
We were at $39 an hour which is based on 75hrs a month but the contract is for a minimum of 85. I think it's just a correction of a previous error although I haven't seen the memo.
now that's fucked, if they base your salary on 85h, your hourly rate will drop a lot, witch mean that you wont make any extra money ever.......as I understand, you get salary or hourly rate witch ever is greater so you'll never make more than salary based on 85h.... blocks are @81.5h on the dash next month.....@75h we always made a good extra cash.....5-10h a month @45$/h. Time for my union dues to get to work....
Stinky wrote:I thought the pay was in error from the beginning. At $35200 per year based on 85 hrs comes to about $34 an hour. We were being paid based on min 85hrs (*) unlike year 3 and up which are paid based on 75hrs. A year 3 will make more money after 75hrs but a new hire will not.
This should only affect WDO's and overtime. Nothing else will change.
We were at $39 an hour which is based on 75hrs a month but the contract is for a minimum of 85. I think it's just a correction of a previous error although I haven't seen the memo.
Stinky, I was told it was 75 hours, and everything after that was extra - and that is how we have been paid untill now. The way I'm seeing it, I'm loseing about 7-10 hours of pay at the $39/hr. Actually I am at year 2 pay so that was $45/HR. They can work us more for less. Sounds like a pay cut to me. Even IF thats how the CA reads (and thats open for debate) thats not what alot of us were told during the hiring phase. If it was so cut and dry then why/how did Jazz MGMT miss this one for so long?
Chief -not the "official" written offer, but I have a course date, so it's looking good.
Cheers.
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The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Hey KAG congrats. One positive about going to WJ will be of course not dying of high blood pressure by 40...cuz that's the path you're on.
Finding out your crappy pay is more than you should have been getting really blows. But a contract is a contract and if that was the wording then it's too bad everybody misread it up till now. If it makes any difference my AC new hire take home is 2150/mo, not counting that I put 6% into the ESOP (whooopeee).
Short term pain.....etc
Dockjock, that's lower than I anticipated it would be. Don't we Jazz guys start at a higher salary than OTS? I was at least hoping for something close to what we are getting now at Jazz.
And sorry I just re-read my last sentence it wasn't clear. $2150 is after putting $190 into the ESOP, on top of which the company puts $65. After tax is roughly $2400/mo.
Jazz must really be looking to lose the majority of it's new hires... 
