Sault or Confederation?

CYQT · Post by **CYQT** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:26 pm

mellow_pilot wrote:
Jeremy wrote:If you like politics and BS, mixed with prof/instructor built-up fear of failing out, then go to
any flight school.

You took the words right out of my mouth. well said.

Kzanol · Post by **Kzanol** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:37 pm

CLguy wrote: The Zlin is an outdated aircraft that had to have its life extended or the Sault program would have shut down because there is no money to replace them.

It still seems to alot more of an airplane than Cessna 172.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:13 pm

So what? So is a cub. Difference is the cub will make you a better pilot.

tank · Post by **tank** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:34 pm

HEY CL GUY!!!!!

Shimmydampner is right on the money as far as what you will receive from Con College and that is probably why the head of the Sault Aviation Program has his son attending Con College.

I think u embarrassed someone.. I hope his cheque doesn't bounce...

Hahahahahaha.

Good to see ya this week bud.
Hope to see ya again before we all move out.
Thanks for all the help

Cheers

Tank

BTW whoever started this thread, Con college all the way. If u want your MIFR go do it down south after Finishing con college. youll still save a tonne. and have better training from from Con to boot.

I'll never regret it.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:41 pm

shimmydampner wrote:So what? So is a cub. Difference is the cub will make you a better pilot.

I think what Kzanol meant was that the 172 is not the match of a Zlin for training. The ZLIN has more power, a constant speed prop, is well instrumented, fully aerobatic, built-like-a-brick- shit-house, and generally more sophisticated, without being too much plane for ab-initio training.

How exactly is a cub more of an aircraft than a Zlin anyways??? It is about the oldest most simple design of a rag and tube, easy-to-fly light plane there is, and has the sophistication of a Curtiss Jenny. What exactly would that add to a young student pilot’s knowledge of modern aviation?? I would agree that while the Cub may give you some (easy) taildragger experience, it has no place in the airline pilot training program. Also (and we've discussed this before) you will never again see an FTU use a taildragger for ab-initio training, ... like it or not.

So the Zlin was probably a good choice for them at the time they made it. Are there better aircraft available now?? Probably, however the Cub aint it, ... and the 172, well it just doesn't hold a candle to the Zlin IMHO.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:42 pm

I had the privelage of flying the SP26A a few years ago at their factory in Florida.

It was a marvelous airplane and I would highly recommend it for a training machine, even though it is a tail wheel machine.

http://www.miccoaircraft.com/

It would be a real winner at a flight college.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:42 pm

2 words:

Rotax power??

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:41 pm

If you are refering to the SP26A Hornblower the one I flew had an IO-540-T4B5 in it that produced 260HP.....

.....That doesen't sound like a Rotax to me, how about you?

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:54 pm

No, ... no it doesn't, however I just followed the link to the website that you provided, and that's all I could see. I get the impression of an organizization in and out of receivership, and one that makes a few homebulit kits, and some LSAs, neither one of which I would consider appropriate for a large FTU, maybe for you though ... . I hope their aircraft work better than their website.

I'm sure their designs are as good as you say, however not good for an FTU that needs a fleet of OEM supported aircraft.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:25 pm

The SP26A is not a kit built airplane it is a FAA certified all metal airplane that has exceptional handling characteristics and looks beautiful.

I will admit it is on conventional gear which may account for your reluctance to accept my stating it is a very good design.

It has had problems with marketing for sure, but it is not alone among good flying airplanes to have problems selling in such a limited market with very high operating costs, for instance the Grumman Tiger comes to mind.

Anyhow I'm getting used to you disagreeing with my opinions about airplanes and how they fly.

Maybe you could give me some dual and also instruct me on how to seperate good from bad in airplanes?

I'm always open to learning from someone with more experience in these issues.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:26 pm

My perspective is perhaps different since I didn't go to either. I have however, flown with dozen's of grads of each over the years.

Neither school is the ultimate anything, but both provide a good entry level pilot for the industry.

Grads of Con seem to enter the workforce with fewer issues and recriminations than Sault, at least in the last several years. Holding back on the flying at Sault initially, seems to have left a scar for many grads

I liked that the Con drivers had had at least an intro to floats & skis which is most of my world.

I think a Con grad who rushed over to perimeter or proifr while they were fresh off the sim would get a cheap IFR, and be in the industry while it is hot.

YQT as a rule was a nicer experience to live work and carouse in for me compared to YAM.

Plus you could more likely snag a nurse, who would be more tolerant of the goofy hours we work.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:43 pm

Cat Driver wrote: I will admit it is on conventional gear which may account for your reluctance to accept my stating it is a very good design.
.

WTF over!
Where in my comments did I say I didn't think it was a good design??? Are you just spoiling for an argument or something? (besides, we were really talking about Zlins, ever seen one? They're kinda neat)

Anyways I like your tone better this time, at least you aren't referring to me using four letter words.

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:56 am

Sorry I missed out on this thread for so long!

I had the chance to attend both Sault and Confed. How is that possible? Well, when I first applied to both, I was accepted at Sault and turned down by Confed. So being the only school that accepted me, off I went. Needless to say after walking the halls in a Shirt and Tie while all the other students sported what they wanted. Busting my ass studying to make the grade point average in courses that I have never used since, I still found myself out the door at the end of two semisters! Thankfully, I had not started my flight training or my Aviation College days would have been over.

The next fall found me accepted into Confed and was happily greated with a number of my old classmates from Soo. I got to walk around the school in jeans and a T. After two years of busting my ass studying courses that did make a damn in my career, I graduated and found myself at the controls of a 185 and 206 on floats and later on skis that winter. About 80% of my class got jobs and I still talk with most of them. Two are at Air Canada, one at the MNR, and me, at the Gov't of Sask.

My advice to you if you still haven't made your choice, is go with Confed. Not that Soo is a bad school, its not. It just wasn't right for me. I think you should take advantage of all your choices in the industry. By going to Confed, you will get that chance. By that I mean you will get to choose the bush. If you don't like flying drunk americans, fish, or the odd fire patrol, you can take you well deserved time and head back to wheels and find a good FO job pretty much anywhere and can pay for that quick switch to Multi IFR with the cash you made in the summer. If you pick the Soo route, you may still make that FO job, but will have never had that chance to pull up on a sandy beach in the middle of no where and wonder if you are the first person to ever set foot there! Not that you couldn't do the float route after, just seems to me it would be a round about way.

I went from my first job to end up the training captain on a 704 machine out of Calgary and now have made the choice to move back to the bush for the summer to work for the water bombers.

It all comes down to what you want to do and where you want to be...?

What ever you choose will be a good choice. But, if I were you, I would head to T-Bay. If you have any questions, pm me.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide!

Adanac

Jercules · Post by **Jercules** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:40 am

When's the next CC reunion?

JohnnyHotRocks · Post by **JohnnyHotRocks** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:48 am

If you pick the Soo route, you may still make that FO job, but will have never had that chance to pull up on a sandy beach in the middle of no where and wonder if you are the first person to ever set foot there!

How do you figure??

Stan_Cooper · Post by **Stan_Cooper** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:06 pm

I don't think grads from one program have a significant advantage on the other in the industry. Thunder Bay has a huge advantage over Sault though: The bars are way better in Thunder Bay.

funkyole1 · Post by **funkyole1** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:41 pm

Damn thats a lot of info you guys put into this topic, anyways i picked confederation after some thinking. Hopefully it can give me a good start to the aviation world.

Kzanol · Post by **Kzanol** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:45 pm

Adanac wrote: Needless to say after walking the halls in a Shirt and Tie while all the other students sported what they wanted. Busting my ass studying to make the grade point average in courses that I have never used since, I still found myself out the door at the end of two semisters!

So, you were too embarrassed to wear a shirt and tie, and it was too hard.

Kzanol · Post by **Kzanol** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:00 pm

AUGER9 wrote:No, you get a 25 hr float rating instead.

Who is going to hire you with 25hr on floats? Also which insurrance company is going to insure you on a floatplane with 25hrs?

fingersmac · Post by **fingersmac** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:08 pm

Small outfits that have privately registered float planes to do camp checks, minnow runs, etc. My roommate only has 25hrs of float time and he has a job lined up after graduation. A couple others have some similar offers too.

AUGER9 · Post by **AUGER9** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:59 pm

Kzanol wrote:
AUGER9 wrote:No, you get a 25 hr float rating instead.

Who is going to hire you with 25hr on floats? Also which insurrance company is going to insure you on a floatplane with 25hrs?

Plenty confed students get hired to fly floats once they graduate.

tank · Post by **tank** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:49 pm

I recently went to the minniapolis sports show with 4 of my class mates from confed. 3 of us had jobs lined up b4 we went and everyone had a job when we left. ( and there were still other operators asking us if we knew of other guys interested in flying this summer)

It seems float operators respect the training from confederation. As fingerssmack mentioned, many operators have privatly registered a/c for camp checks and minnow runs which require low amounts of float time for ensurance. But I also know of a few other guys that are going on commercially registered aircraft with 25 hrs on floats. It seems that if the operators like you and think that you would be good for their company they will make it happen.

. . · Post by **. .** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:34 pm

tank wrote:many operators have privatly registered a/c for camp checks and minnow runs which require low amounts of float time for ensurance

maybe best you went to confed.

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:11 am

Kzanol wrote:

So, you were too embarrassed to wear a shirt and tie, and it was too hard.

I guess this makes me a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy. You can't rate the quality or the skills of a pilot based on the clothes he(or she) wears!

Kzanol wrote:

Who is going to hire you with 25hr on floats? Also which insurrance company is going to insure you on a floatplane with 25hrs?

Me! I was hired with 25hrs straight onto a 185 and within two months moved onto a 206. Not the biggest machines on the water but not bad for someone with just 25hrs of float time. Must have been the training!

Anything else you wish to ask?

Adanac

Morav · Post by **Morav** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:35 am

They are both good school, but for me it was an easy choice. Sault because of the MIFR. I am happy with the training I got.

Nice equipment and a tough training syllabus. They wont think twice about failing you out third year.

Also your able to use the Sims as much as you'd like. At some flight schools you're charged 40 bucks an hour to drive some piece junk.

I'd much rather take out an OSAP loan then have to take out a bank loan after graduation to get the MIFR.

But then again if you have money... you should be getting a University degree and doing the flying on the side. my 2cents