Who is the most difficult student to teach?

[. ._]

I was wondering who is the most difficult student to teach- or the best type to teach.

The rich old guy? The sixteen year old kid? The dingbat wife of the old guy? The fat middle manager? The schoolteacher?

Do you have any tips on overcoming learning challenges? Let hear 'em!

-istp

[mculshaw]

I find it is the older students - 50+ that are the hardest for me. I'm <30 and I haven't noticed any memory issues yet.

The students who are older tend to take longer to learn a lesson or maneuver then when review comes around it is a bit tough. Rumour has it that the memory goes when you get older

But i do admire them b/c they have the time, $$, dedication and motivation that the young <20 students do not.

Tips... I've found the older students work well if they have notes from the lessons when you go through them the first time. Later, for review, assign the student to look over their notes & the FTManual before their next lesson.

If they don't do the review - give them 15 minutes to review things on their own - then start the lesson. It may mean less pay & flight time for you - but my sanity is worth more than 0.3 flight time.

mc

[Cat Driver]

The guys who went into turbines in the airline enviroment with no or very little exposure to flying piston engine airplanes.

The biggest problem is they have become accustomed to SOP's and flying by numbers.

And a lot of them have no idea there is a rudder on the back.

.

[mculshaw]

I agree Cat,
I remember one of my fellow instructors telling about a time when he was checking-out a AC pilot. He asked the instructor what height should he start to flare the 172.....

we got a good chuckle out of that one.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The ones I hated were the 18 to 23 yr old males wannebe commercial pilots who were fully funded by the their rich fathers. Most of them could not be bothered to do any home work, expected everything to be done for them and in general had a bad attitude. Funny though most of them quickly asked for a new instructor after complaining I was too " hard on them "

My favorite PPL student (of 37) was a 72 yr old gentleman. He had wanted to be a pilot for his whole life but never had the financial resources until he received a small inheritance. With the backing of his wife he decided to get his PPL. I knew I was going to enjoy teaching him when he showed up for a discovery flight with a well thumbed copy of the ground up and 2 pages of written down questions. He was so happy and excited going solo he almost cried. He took a little longer to get his license then the young guys/gals but I enjoyed every minute of his course of instruction.

[Wasn't Me]

I don't think age is a factor. Attitude is. The guy or gal who thinks that if the TC standard minimum is 45 her/she should be finished and competent at 45. The know it all can be any age. The lack of reading is a problem practiced by many not just the young.

A good student is smart, well read, a little nervous ( makes him respect the nature of the exercise ) and polite enough to understand that his instructor is a tool and should be used properly. I have flown with hundreds of pilots from Private to PPC's. The good one always wonder at the magic of flight and strive to understand not just memorize.

[chewsta]

I agree with Wasn't Me. I haven't had very many students but I have noticed that regardless of age a good student is paying for it themselves, wants to be skilled (not just pass the exam), and prepares for every lesson.

[Right Seat Captain]

understand that his instructor is a tool

Well said!

[rotorfloat]

Worst: The ones that think they know it already.

Best (so far): a 54 yr old woman, former fixed wing instructor who is doing her private heli "Just because I wanted to learn". She's admidded she'll do nothing with it. An absolute pleasure to teach.

[fatdumbandlazy]

Any student that comes to a lesson with a fist load of questions is my dream student.

You will get students who come to a lesson with a "teach me" attitude and blame you for all their shortcommings. Those students make me wanna put my fist through the wall. I just make sure that I get paid for the work they want me to do.

Now for those students that come prepared, well rested and ready to fly are the best to have. If all they need me to do is to fill in the gaps that they miss from reading or in flight then they will get better quality and economy from their training.

I don't gouge my students by any stretch of the imagination. But if you show up and make my job difficult or stressful because you are too lazy to prep yourself, expect a briefing bill on every flight.

[ZLIN 142C]

ISTP:

I'm not an instructor, but I suspect that the most gratifying student to teach would be the hot young girlfriend of the rich old guy.

[hz2p]

An old friend of mine - a retired Transport inspector - used to brag that he screwed every female student he instructed I was never that accomplished a swordsman.

Back on topic ... the best student is the one who is motivated to learn, and wants to fly really badly.

There is no doubt that people learn quicker when they are younger, but let's admit it, it's just not that hard to fly a fixed wing aircraft straight and level.

The students that use to make me the most nervous were one of two categories:

1) they were clueless and fearless, which is an awe-inspiring, smiling combination, right up until the moment of impact.

2) they were skilled and fearless. They were very good pilots, and they were going to get a lot better with time if they survived, which was dubious.

Category 1 pilots didn't know they were in over their heads. The demographics of this one were remarkably uniform - male or female, of any age. These are people who really should take up golf, or preferably some other game not involving swinging steel clubs in close proximity to others. These people shouldn't operate motorized equipment of any kinds, even weedeaters or battery-powered drills, and especially nailguns.

Category 2 pilots knew what was going on, but went looking for trouble, which was completely unnecessary, because trouble will find you easily enough all on it's own, and sooner than you think. Typically the demographics here are young male - you can almost see the testosterone squirting out of their ears. From a medical standpoint, they really don't have much of an evolutionary chance - their brains are marinated in hormones, driving them to do stupid things.

Either one can make the front page of the newspaper, because they get themselves in situations they can't handle, but for quite different reasons. #1 simply has no clue, and #2 likes the rush.

Either way, I'm still looking for that elusive nyphomaniac who's father owns a chain of liquor stores

[fatdumbandlazy]

The students that use to make me the most nervous were one of two categories:

1) they were clueless and fearless, which is an awe-inspiring, smiling combination, right up until the moment of impact.

2) they were skilled and fearless. They were very good pilots, and they were going to get a lot better with time if they survived, which was dubious.
:

What about the skilled and fearful? I've had a few good pilots but were so scared to turn the plane because the turn made them feel funny. Thats all good until the mountain comes up or the traffic is heading toward them. These ones can be especially bad because you know they could be good but their fear is crippling them.

[Pugster]

I've always had a tough time teaching 19 - 25 year old great looking women.

Just kidding...actually the toughest students I have are the ones who are consistently inconsistent It's very hard to work on an issue when it's there one day, and gone the next...and then back again.

I've had one student who will change from a fairly competent learner if they've had a 12 hour sleep to an absolute nightmare with "only" 8 hours. And they're hoping to go commercial

Pugster

[Shiny Side Up]

The ones I hated were the 18 to 23 yr old males wannebe commercial pilots who were fully funded by the their rich fathers. Most of them could not be bothered to do any home work, expected everything to be done for them and in general had a bad attitude. Funny though most of them quickly asked for a new instructor after complaining I was too " hard on them "

The worst thing about these ones isthe discussion you inevitably have with Dad when he realizes how much money his son had blown. Keep a good PTR - every time that puke shows up late, hung over, without his stuff. record it. A notable student comes to mind, he was supposed to do his training while his parents were away on vacation, and he just plain didn't show the entire week. The parents had the nerve to blame us for their son partying in their house for the entire week. WTF!? Apparently they expected us to call their son up to make sure he was studying and to tell him when to come out for flights. And this is no schoolboy we're talking about, he was 19 and quite capable of diving his own lazy ass out to the airport. Not even in school, didn't even have a job. I run a flight school here, not a flippin' daycare.

Now that being said I always get a kick out of some of these young fellows who get into flight training because they figure there's lots of money to be made, and of course pilots get chicks.

[LT]

And I always thought the toughest would be the "deaf dumb and blind kid"....

But I hear he "Sure plays a mean pin ball"

[just curious]

I had to go through my old log books to find them, but, yep, seems like bad attitude, & dad's money were the two worst combinations.

I had a half dozen wives of Voodoo pilots who wanted to know more about why their husbands were so taken by their work. Very tentative, but made a list of questions asked them without wanting an off-the-cuff answer. Cross-checked with met briefers, air frame techs, air traffic controllers, you name it. Would willingly spend several hours learning about forced approaches and then drive out to the same fields they selected and walk them to see if they really could have landed there. I saw the notebooks of a few of them later. Their husbands had borrowed them to study for their ATPLs. And passed.

I had a guy, 74 years old. Took over the family hardware store. His kids were shiftless, so he had to wait till his grandkids were old enough to take over before he could learn. Told me from the outset that he would need things explained over and over again til he got it. Paid cash up front for ground briefings, which was three or four years before ground briefings were considered by TC. Wanted to fly every good weather day at 6 AM. Was always a half hour early. Deferred his flight test for a couple day, 'cause he wanted the grandkids to wax the airplane. About 8 times. On the diversion he gave a running commentary of every farm, town and creek along the way. Was within 4 second of his ETA.

Another one, late fifties, didn't read very well, didn't talk much. Welder with his own truck, went out to the logging camps to fix heavy equipment. Took the groundschool five times before he started flying. Flew every week since he got his licence. For the last 22 years.

Air Cadets. Taught 35 on the flying scholarship, 15 on gliders. Tell them to review chapter 4 of from the ground up, discover they've reviewed 3-8 and made notes. Averaged 94% on written. Mad that they didn't do better. A dozen of them join air force. One later joins Snowbirds.

I had two... knew pretty much everything One of them phoned TC to book his own flight test, since he had 34 hours, knew minimum requirement was 35 hours, and flight tests were normally an hour. The other practiced DF steers with him. .. he grasped the concept. Decided to practice enroute YFC. Calls tower on a CAVU day. "Freddie Tower, this is Golf XXX, am lost request DF Steer." "GXXX turn right 255" Bonehead punches DG set button turns gyro to 255 (While headed to the active Artillery Range in Gagetown, heading 220). "GXXX turn right 295" (a little louder and clearer this time). Bonehead punches DG set button turns gyro to 295, 5 miles back of the range. "GXXX turn right 325" Nearly apoplexic by now. Bonehead punches DG set button turns gyro to 325, 1 miles back of the range, still tracking 220. Kiowa helicopter intercepts him, just over the artillery park. I stayed on a last name basis with the tower guys for 3 years over him. The other one... parents take out a mortgage on their house to pay for a private commercial IFR for this clown. He tells them that it's a TC requirement that pilot applicants have a Breitling navigator watch, as well as an approved leather flying jacket. Pissed away 11,000 bucks on flying trinkets and crap. When a commercial still ran around 8000 to complete (and a breitiling ran around 500!). During his Multi IFR ride, the inspector has him doing the VFR portion... they're flying towards a big black cell thats flashing, and sending lightning blots out the bottom and sides, and says- "Well, I guess we'll have to divert". Student looks at him with that you inexperienced fool look, and says what do you mean? It's only a little shower! And headed straight for it.

The tentative, the elderly, the ones who saw flying as a rare opportunity might have taken more time. But I loved working with them. Flyin' with Dad's money, in the sure knowledge that there was more where that came from... I hated every nanosecond of it.

[. ._]

Thanks fellas! Keep 'em coming.

We might be learning something here. I know I am.

-istp

[hz2p]

Wow. Whole lotta blue-collar class anger here about "Daddy's money".

I personally never cared where someone got their money. If they had
talent and drive, they were fun to teach. If they didn't, patience was
required, but remember that in a service industry, the customer is
always right. If you don't like the service industry, perhaps it's time to
try something else.

Those of you who were upset about "Daddy's money" must get furious
at military pilots, who learned to fly on everybody's daddy's money - they
didn't earn a nickle of it.

Also, you might want to stay away from corporate flying. Your customers
will almost always have more money that you, which I understand is
a source of great unhappiness amongst the avowed blue collars here.

Rude, antagonistic remarks to your wealthy customers that you resent
is not the best way to create repeat business. Your boss will know that
too, and you will be looking for a new job shortly.

Perhaps you blue collar guys should find a professional to talk to, about
all this anger you have towards people wealthier than you?

[3Green]

I'm pretty sure I was the most difficult to teach

[Wasn't Me]

Ability was never a funtion of money but of motivation. Most students understand the rule learn and live some a few think it's just like school pass an exam and forget about it. I have had my share of money people as students and to most part they have been a joy to teach. You don't have to be rich to be spoiled and un motivated.

[scubasteve]

I was actually thinking about posting this last night...anyway you guys beat me to it. There is a generalization about pilots who live at home and who have things paid for them. I agree with some of it. I lived at home while doing my training thru a university program and have no problem saying that. The program was expensive enough and was the only one of its kind at the time and just happened to be offered in my home town. Now if I'm spending $12000+ each year why would I move out? Now in that program were people from around the province who were definitely worse off than me and some who received a cheque from daddy each month for rent and food etc (who also complained about being broke when it ran out before the 31st) For the most part, all were good pilots and students but that may have been due to the intensive nature of the program. If you didn't cut it you were out. I worked 2 part time jobs while doing full time studies and receiving my flight training - maybe 3 of 20 students had jobs while in the program. I get a little frustrated when people talk about students and pilots living in their parents basements because its a generalization...All my loans are in my name, I worked and paid my own car bills etc. That did make me a little choked towards some of the people in the program b/c they had it a little easier but to go against another generalization...they weren't necessarily bad pilots.

I've had to put my training on hold for 2 years because I could'nt afford it anymore and my family doesnt have the resources. In the end its personal motivation that sets a student apart. Surely someone who knows the value of a dollar and how hard it is to earn the money just for one flight hour is more likely to make the best use of that hour. Secondly anyone that has the flying bug - who looks up every time they hear an a/c pass over, who stares at Pearson or O'Hare etc while driving by, or any airport for that matter and all those other things that we're addicted to - that person is going to be an enthusiastic student.

[shitdisturber]

hz2p you've missed the point of Daddy's money completely. I know the student Shiny was speaking of and, if anything, he sugar coated the issue. Because Mommy and Daddy coddle their little bundle of joy; he thought it was fine and dandy to waste everybody's time and his parents money by showing up unprepared and expecting to be led by the hand through flight training. For that matter, Mommy and Daddy seemed to feel that flight instructor and baby sitter are synonyms. For those out there with that misconception, it's reality check time; we're here to teach your pride and joy how to fly, period. For those who routinely show up unprepared, expect to spend a hell of a lot of extra money and/or find your little bundle has been sent home early a lot cause we weren't going to waste time we didn't have teaching them things they should already know.

We aren't equating problem students with the amount of money they have. I had one student in particular; she and her husband donated more to charity in a year, than I ever made as a flight instructor. She was a delight to teach, always prepared, always on time, and most important, always interested. But then when they started out, her and her husband had nothing and made themselves into millionaires. There's that theme again, people who earn it, appreciate it.

[just curious]

Wow. Whole lotta blue-collar class anger here about "Daddy's money".

Actually, although I am a blue collar pilot, I don't begrudge people having and enjoying money. My parents had quite a bit, and I was never lacking. I borrowed the money from the bank and worked as a ramp rat for mine. My dad co-signed the note, but there was no question in my dad's or my mind that I was going to finish my ratings, get a job, and pay it off. No what angers me is those few who had no appreciation of the sacrifice someone else had made so that they could fritter it away. My one kid with "Daddy's money" never managed to fly commercially. He got the folks to take out a second mortgage to he could become a commercial diver, and then promptly killed himself doing a night solo dive poaching scallops.

My disgust arose as a result of his poor attitude towards not simply the money, but to learning what was, and is, to me, a profession. In addition to squandering the money, he squandered his, and my time, robbing useful time in classrooms with his trivial asides. I had to make a point of booking other students with a large space on the sheets, since I knew he was going to arrive late, and unprepared.

As far as resenting the ones who got in the military, I can't see that. They had a variety of boring ground duties, and annoying postings over the years, that really offset the cost of their flying training. If anything, I'm envious of their experiences.

[Big Pistons Forever]

hz2p.

No blue collar anger over here, just an observation which I think you have to admit has validity. Certainly every student who is fully funded by rich parents does not have to be a jerk but it is my personal experience that there is a high correlation between spoiled rich kids and students who have a poor attitude towards their training.