serious help for a newbie

[len173]

okay, this is gonna be a lot. so I really appreciate anyone taking the time to help me with any parts of this. I am seriously thinking about starting flight training soon. I am very new to this and really know nothing. I live in Kamloops, BC and there is a flight training center here called "Flight Discovery Pilot training Center" Does anyone know anything about it? I am wondering if it is a good school? they provide:

-Recreational pilot permit
-PPL
-Night and VFR over the top ratings
-commercial pilot license
-Instructor Rating
-Commercial pilot rating
-Multi Engine and instrument rating
-and Air transport pilot rating

http://www.flightdiscovery.com/

Now I would be looking at being a pilot as a career, not just as a hobby, so I am assuming i would need each one of those. Can someone give me an idea of the cost to this. According to their website it would cost around $43 000. is this realistic and would having all of the above qualifications make me qualified to work as a pilot in any kind of setting. I have also heard these days that if you want to work for a commercial airline you have to have a degree aside from your pilot training and getting a degree is not something i particularly want to do. So would i be pretty much screwed for a job if i don't get a degree? I also work full time for only $10.75 and hour and I don't know if its possible for me to do training on that budget. And if it is wouldn't it take me years to get the qualifications to work? Starting training is a big deal for me because i don't just want to leap into something so expensive without knowing as much as I can first. I will have more questions..but I will leave it at that for now because it is so much. Once again, I really appreciate any help you can provide. Thank You

Lenny

[steelrain27]

I'm somewhat doing the same thing. I work for 11 bucks an hour at a car dealership in Hamilton Ont. The general feeling i got from instructors from talking to them is that it does takes some time in some cases to get your first flying job but then you just start working away at it and well there are alot of success stories out there. If you look at the free jobs pages there are alot of openings out there.

Now for my training what I did was take out a loan from my bank for 32000 and I've been training using that with the knowledge that I will have a job once this training is over because I'm approaching it as if its a job right now. I am pretty much half way through my private license and i have spent less then 4000. The price will really vary on your skill level, everyone is different and if your co-ordination is lacking it will take you more time to get that portion under your belt. Also talking from instructors and pilots, alot of companies dont really care to much if you went to a collage or if you went to a flight school because it really boils down to your TT, skill, what you've flown and what ratings you have.

Thats just my two cents on the topic but so far its working out well for me. I dont think i can stretch this money as far as to get multi and IFR but i'm sure I'll figure it out.

If flying is your dream do whatever it takes to achieve! Once you've gone up and flown the plane it will be the only thing you will everything, think, speak, or dream about!

[200hr Wonder]

Len best advice I can give you is head to your local airport cafe, and chat up a working pilot. Something like what you are looking for is best done over a coffee with the smell of 100LL in the air.

[Walker]

Hola, welcome to aviation!!! It takes a lot of work but in the end I think most of us here think it was well worth it!

Any who it’s a tad late here and I have a fair bit of work to do tonight so ill give you the short version.
What you will need: PPL, CPL anything after that is optional depending where you want to go to star: IFR, Instructor, Multi, Float can all come when and if you need them dependant on what job you choose to get. (PS ATPL programs are a bit of a joke)
My suggestion if you are considering dishing out $40K is the following (PS I wish I had done thing 6 years ago):

-DO NOT put more than $1000 on account at a time!
-Don’t enroll in a $40K wham bam thank you mam program! if your going to fly a float plane for your first job there is no reason to blow $$ on an IFR, your airman ship skills will be piss poor at 200hrs and you’d be better of doing it when you have 1000PIC under your belt. Conversely if your going to get on as an FO on a Navaho you don’t need 50 hrs float time
-Buy a plane, buy a plane from day one. You will have to do a lot of research but you will learn a LOT more about aviation owning an aircraft than you will just by going to ground school and paying someone else to shuffle the paperwork. Aircraft hold their value rather well and the banks like to give out $$ for you to buy them for just that reason. So lease your own plane get an instructor (schools will still teach you however instead of paying $160 an hr for your instructor and a 152 you can pay $50/ hr for the instructor and $50/hr for your own fuel/maintenance/insurance etc… -Get your PPL& night done and go for a trip, maybe South America or something, get home do the CPL, sell the bird and presto your done and a LOT more hirable than a 200hr wonder from the puppy mill.


Anywho there is a bit more too it but Id start looking in that direction if I was doing this again from scratch! Good luck!

-walk

[happily.retired]

I totally agree with all that Walker had to say and wanted to add one more point financially. Try to get some money saved up ahead of time. If you can fly frequently you will reach your goals in far fewer hours thereby saving plenty of money. That said, if you're saving your pennies but find your bank account has hit a plateau start flying and you'll have more success saving beacuse you'll be addicted. You'll find yourself thinking "Would I rather go for a nice dinner, or buy a half hour flight time?" It's not real good for your love life but if s/he can't handle sharing you with your birds it'll never last anyways.

On the college note, to the best of my knowledge, the airlines are the only ones who care and even they generally consider it an advantage but not necessarily a requirement. Have a look at the free job ads on here if you wanna see what typical hiring requirements are, but keep in mind most entry level jobs aren't posted. Usually the rookies get in by pounding the pavement, knowing somebody, of impressing the guys they train with or work the ramp for.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

[Mr.Schneiders]

Hi there.

I've never thought of leasing my own aircraft for my upcoming CPL training ... though I feel it might be a good idea.

What kind of plane, what price would you put in it. How would you deal with your bank, the plane payment, etc. ? Every bit of answer is appreciated


EDIT : Actually the "global" question would be "what are all the costs surrounding and how to deal with them ?"

I think of fuel, insurance, parking the plane, the lease of the plane itself ... what else ?

[GottaFly]

Hi there.

I've never thought of leasing my own aircraft for my upcoming CPL training ... though I feel it might be a good idea.

What kind of plane, what price would you put in it. How would you deal with your bank, the plane payment, etc. ? Every bit of answer is appreciated


EDIT : Actually the "global" question would be "what are all the costs surrounding and how to deal with them ?"

I think of fuel, insurance, parking the plane, the lease of the plane itself ... what else ?

Your best bet would definatly be a Cessna 150 for flight training. They are cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, extremely simple, and really quite enjoyable to fly. There are a lot of really nice Cessna 150s out there for well under $20000. Take a look on http://www.barnstormers.com or http://www.controller.com, and do a search. Don't be afraid to look at airplanes in the states either. The process for bringing an airplane back into canada may seem like a lot of red tape, but it's really not too bad. Plus the ferry trip to bring it back is a lot of fun. Of course there are a lot of things to look for when you buy a new plane:

most importantly is TBO (time before overhaul) - Most simple light airplanes are worth their engine. A cessna 150 needs an engine overhaul at 1800 hours (possibly more, if you research the "oncondition" program). So it's best to find one with relativly low TBO time.

Insurance: as a student pilot, insurance premiums will be quite expensive on your own airplane. You're looking at anywhere between 2000-5000 depending on your coverage, but as soon as you're fully certified, your premiums will drop signicantly. Like on a car, you can get collision insurance (hull insurance). So if you were to smash up your own airplane, hull insurance would fix or replace the airplane.

Maintaince: to import an aircraft into canada, provided nothing is seriously wrong with the airplane you can expect the bill to be anywhere between 800-4000. 4000 is probably the extreme, but you never know with airplanes. They like to suck your money away into nothing. Every year, or 100 hours (whichever comes first) your aircraft is due for a 100 hour inspection. and the price for that is very comparable to an import. But if you take really good care of your airplane, everything should last fairly long. Like i said, a cessna 150 is not a complicated airplane at all!

That should about cover it. If i missed anything, please add to this list. If you have any other questions PM me.

Good Luck!

[Mr.Schneiders]

Hi !

Thanks for the reply. For insurance, what you exactly mean by "student pilot" ? ... let's say I might buy a plane while already having my PPL (building time for my CPL then)

And parking the plane ? in a hangar or not, etc.

I just wanna have an idea so I can plan ahead. I made a "pessimistic" count for what a plane might cost during, say, a 2 or 3 years ownership, it gets quickly cheaper (per hours) than renting one at your FTU or something if you're flying a lot.


Thanks for your time !

[GottaFly]

Hi !

Thanks for the reply. For insurance, what you exactly mean by "student pilot" ? ... let's say I might buy a plane while already having my PPL (building time for my CPL then)

And parking the plane ? in a hangar or not, etc.

I just wanna have an idea so I can plan ahead. I made a "pessimistic" count for what a plane might cost during, say, a 2 or 3 years ownership, it gets quickly cheaper (per hours) than renting one at your FTU or something if you're flying a lot.


Thanks for your time !

Student pilot is your first step in becoming a fully qualified pilot. A student pilot permit is issued so that you can complete the solo portion of your private training. In every Private Pilot Course it is a government requirement that the candidate has at least 17 hours of dual experience and at least 12 hours of solo time. Keeping in mind that these times are minimums, and the average student will probably go 10-15 hours over to pass the practical test. In order to go solo, you need the Student Pilot Permit. In essence, the insurance company is insuring a 15 hour pilot therefore being a pretty high risk.

In my opinion, unless you're buying an aircraft made out of fabric and wood, it would be unnessary to pay at least 250/month for a hanger. And at that price you're not even guaranteing a heated hanger. With a cessna 150 you'd be much better off paying a $30/month ramp fee at a local airport.

From somebody who has already done all the math, i figured that including maintaince, fuel, insurance, ramp fees, etc, would equal about $50-60/ flight hour to operate a cessna 150. Not bad considering you would pay 105-115/hour for the same aircraft at a school. The other thing with the figure i listed is that you fly at least 80-100 hours/year. Would you ever consider a partnership? if you find one other person who is willing to do this, you cut your costs in half again! Every FTU has a person who wants to buy an airplane. You have to sell the idea to him.

Anyways, any more questions, don't hesitate to ask, good luck!

DJ

[Mr.Schneiders]

Hi !

I knew for the student permit... I just wanted to be sure you were talking of the same thing by saying "student pilot". (I'll get my PPL in a few weeks at worse)

I've also done some pessimistic maths and also got out with the same 60$/hour for a 150. I considered some 150h/year of flying, as you said, it's not really interesting until you're flying more than 75-100h/year.

I'd consider partnership. Even if we sell the plane at the end, you still have to finance it in the beginning. A partner would be a great help.


Thanks again for your answers. I'd never thought of owning a plane... sounded like it was way too expensive... and I figured out I was wrong.

[niss]

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=28813


Der ya go!

[ScudRunner]

Was just going to suggest talking to Niss about buying a plane and there you are!

First off you need to ask yourself where do you want to go in aviaiton, your first job will likely be a day VFR tour operation or bush type work. So you wont need an IFR rating. however if you go and Ramp for an airline that hires from the ramp you will need your IFR ticket before you get on the flightline.

Personally Ive been flying for about 5 years or so and this is my first gig using the IFR. Recurrnet rides are a bitch $$ if you aint using it.

Id suggest asking all the "dumb questions" on here you can think of, Start the PPL licence you dont need the Recreational then the PPL. See how you like it. Your instructor will be able and should have the time to answer all your question's and guide you through what it takes.