Cheep Multi Engine rating

AMORTS · Post by **AMORTS** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:42 am

Hi all

I am looking for cheep ME rating around canada

any suggested school , and how long does it take normaly if i do it full time

thanks

WRX · Post by **WRX** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:57 am

Multi Engine Rating does not have minimum time requirements. It doesn't have a lot of exercises to do and it's more about procedures. So the cost of the rating varied depending on your effort to study and how well you are flying.

I've seen people get the rating with about 2 hours on the multi and some in the sim. while some others needed 20 hours.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:33 am

If it takes 20 hours, one of two things come to mind. You need to consider doing something else, or your instructor is "milking" you for multi time. Both are bad. Five hours should do it?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:09 pm

" Five hours should do it? "

Yeh, that is maximum if you were learning with a hangover.

WRX · Post by **WRX** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:55 pm

Some people have bad habbits and some have no time to do it in one go.

usually takes about 10 hours. but if you're sharp, it takes about 4-5 hours.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:15 pm

What do you find is the biggest problem they have learning to fly a basic twin engine airplane?

Most of the proceedures can be learned sitting on the ramp or in the hangar.

Flyin' Hi · Post by **Flyin' Hi** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:00 am

I often look at how a student has done up to that point. If the private licence was 120 hours, then I expect a 15-20 hour multi. If the private licence was done it 50 hours, then the multi can probably be done in 5-7. That is the general trend that I have seen.

Krashman · Post by **Krashman** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:14 pm

The flight school I worked at if you weren't doing your flight test by 10hrs alarm bells were going off....

but it all depends on experience and how you fly

Elessar_44 · Post by **Elessar_44** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:54 am

I had my test done at the 11hr mark, but my flights were pretty sporadically placed so I had some rust to shake off between flights. So I'd say between 5-10 hrs.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:10 am

Problem is, the multi can be the first time a student has seen:

1) constant speed prop
2) retractable gear
3) fuel injection, cowl flaps
4) HSI, RMI, DME, IFR GPS, etc

then you go on to the whole engine-out drill, fuel system, janitrol heater, etc.

If the student has seen #1 through #4 on a single before, a "multi" endorsement shouldn't take very long - just type famil & engine-out drill.

good_idea · Post by **good_idea** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:55 am

If you already have the knowledge the rating should take between 5-10 hrs. Review constant speed prop theory, mechanical workings and operation and you should be ok.

Just think of it as a type check. The airplane will still fly the same way... you just have to manage one more engine and know what to do if one or both engines are not working.

good_idea

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:38 pm

And try and find someone with lots of multi time who can teach you what you need to know to safely fly it.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:42 pm

And, don't pay for a lot of dual straight and level. You should be finished inside of five hours. I'd second Cat's remark. Forget the instructor at the local school building twin time. Get a guy with some time.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:25 pm

Get an experienced instructor. Knowing how to do something and knowing how to teach it are two different things. Just sit through any university math class if you don't believe me

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:47 pm

Spoken like a true instructor.
Lets try and make it look difficult.
Big difference between university math, and flying a light twin!
It's all about drills...should be able to do them your sleep before you set foot in the aircraft!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:56 pm

Get an experienced instructor. Knowing how to do something and knowing how to teach it are two different things.

Excellent advice.

Just don't get confused by thinking the term " instructor " means that the person training you must hold a " Flight Instructors Rating "

There are many pilots avaliable who are excellent teachers who no longer have or never did have an instructors rating.

It is no different than any other service you pay for, all you need do is check the background and reputation of the person whom you hire to teach you......

So bottom line is look for the best you can find with or without the " Flight Instructor Rating "

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:15 pm

Doc wrote:

Lets try and make it look difficult.

It is obvious to me, by some of the posts here, and from some of the things I have seen around FTU's that it actually may be difficult for some of those instructors. It is also obvious to me, from what I have seen coming out of the FTU's that instructors are either milking the students, or really dont know exactly what it is they are trying to achieve and so waste alot of time. One case I heard about from a new pilot two years ago....the first lesson they just taxied around the airport to learn about asymetic thrust in the turn....I am not making this up. 0.7 hrs of "flight time" and they never left the ground. The only reason they stopped was that the student finally got mad and complained.

It was superb advice on several of your parts, to recommend getting someone with experience.
As to the instructing part, many of us, myself included, held instructors ratings years ago, and in the interim have become CP's or line check pilots, or training pilots, or had training in the military with regard to instructing.

to make the claim, as one poster did, that you should get only an instructor is ridiculous.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:05 pm

Just don't get confused by thinking the term " instructor " means that the person training you must hold a " Flight Instructors Rating "

Good point. But the student would be wise to find someone with some sort of educator training, current or not. Teaching is like flying; when its done well it looks easy enough that anyone can jump right in and do it, when in fact it's an art whose finer points require some mentoring to pick up.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:19 pm

Good point. But the student would be wise to find someone with some sort of educator training, current or not. Teaching is like flying; when its done well it looks easy enough that anyone can jump right in and do it, when in fact it's an art whose finer points require some mentoring to pick up.

Exactly,once again I agree with some of what you say.

But the student would be wise to find someone with some sort of educator training,

Just bear in mind holding a Canadian flight instructors rating is not proof that you are a top notch teacher, I wouldn't have a hope in hell of passing even the class 4 written or flying tests with TC. But I do consider myself to be an excellent teacher of flying.

When searching for a top notch instructor one of the best methods of determining the quality of their instruction is the pay per hour they receive and will they give you contact information with their former students so you can get their recommendation.

The top instructors command top money.

I do quite well in that department.

fingersmac · Post by **fingersmac** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:38 pm

I just did mine at Cornwall Aviation two weeks ago. Handful of instructors, two PA44s and an examiner on staff. They got four of us done in a few days at about an average of 6hrs each. Cost was in the neighborhood of $2300 with taxes and examiner fee.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:13 pm

Wow thats a great deal fingersmac,

what was the aircraft/hour just out of curiousity.

fingersmac · Post by **fingersmac** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:37 am

It was $322 for the airplane and instructor after tax ($253 + $50 + GST).

http://www.pro-flight.on.ca/main.html

PTP · Post by **PTP** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:21 pm

Ok, I'll bite...

"Instructor Ratings" don't make the instructor. But they do save cash on the CPL requirment.

I had a student come in yesterday who had 30 hours of dual float time. He has no asperations for an ifr and wants his commercial license signed off. Unfortunatly he needs about 15 hours 'dual' from a licensed instructor to have the 35 needed on the cpl. He needs about 14 hours of instrument also. This means we are doing all of his instrument time in the aircraft instead of the sim. So he cost himself about 1600$ because of the 'non instructor rated float instructor'.

(although his float instructor was an awesome teacher, so I'm sure he learned a lot. But because the guy doesn't have a rating, it's costing the students)

Just have a conversation with the instructor. Ask how long they have been doing it. Subtly ask what class of instructor they are (I know this doesn't matter, but I wouldn't want someone as new as a class 4 in a plane costing me +300/hour).

Someone with industry experience is great, but it may just mean 500 hours of multi cruise flying.

ptp

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:45 pm

Someone with industry experience is great, but it may just mean 500 hours of multi cruise flying.

And conversely with a certified flight instructor you may get someone who has never been inside a cloud.

(although his float instructor was an awesome teacher, so I'm sure he learned a lot. But because the guy doesn't have a rating, it's costing the students)

Yes, that is true, and it just shows how abysmally stupid the rules are.

Anyhow this instructor thing is a no win for some of us who are unable to get one because we don't fit the TC mold of getting on our knees and submitting to TC's flight training inspectors.