So last week I took my MIFR ride and afterwards the examiner and I were chatting about the current state of the industry. He mentioned to me about some program that Jazz has for recent Comm / MIFR students with a University degree. Anyone hear or know anything about this? Sounds like it would be a nice opportunity as I've got my Bachelor's from U Waterloo.
Thanks for any help!
Jazz program for Uni grads?
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Elessar_44
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Blue Yonder
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Jazz has a program for university grads. If you have ATPL, 500 Multi Turbine PIC and 4-8 years of sluggin it out in the post 911 industry and a degree from any university, you are guaranteed an interview.
However if you still live with Ma and Pa in Toronto, have never seen the inside of a cloud but will graduate from a few select flight colleges, you also qualify for an interview for a cadet position with Jazz.
However if you still live with Ma and Pa in Toronto, have never seen the inside of a cloud but will graduate from a few select flight colleges, you also qualify for an interview for a cadet position with Jazz.
Yeah I can't wait to fly with these clowns. Not only will their IFR knowledge be simply from a textbook, their overall plane handling skills will be of the Cessna type with a dweeb instructor riding along. Just what I want going into a dark hole in the middle of the night, slick runway, 90 deg crosswind and so-on.
This program is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. They are going to be filling the cockpits with peopl ethat have no experience and in an attempt to save money and de-value our proffession so that come negots time they can say "hey, any college grad can do it".
Jazz, what a fucking JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!
This program is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. They are going to be filling the cockpits with peopl ethat have no experience and in an attempt to save money and de-value our proffession so that come negots time they can say "hey, any college grad can do it".
Jazz, what a fucking JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cat Driver
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This need not be an issue, all Jazz needs to do is have an approach ban when the x/wind component exceeds 5 knots.90 deg crosswind and so-on.
Welcome to the new age gang.
I wonder what will be next in the dumming down of this industry?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Jet Dog
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I heard a report from the Jazz think-tank, that after these new seneca grads go left seat, monkeys from the Toronto zoo will be given preference for the right seat, as monkeys from the toronto zoo are much more superior than those of other zoos, and of monkeys that are matured through the wild, with wilderness experience. And when comes negotations again, they will say any moneky can do this.. here's your bananna
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DAVE THE RAVE
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I think this program is an "award" type thing. The top 16 students from 5 or so colleges (Seneca, Sault, the Quebec one, Mt. ROyal and MFC I think) get an interview. The top 8 get an offer.
I'm flying with a guy right now who was in Japan flying a -8 on contract for ANA. They had DE FO's on thir Q400's. The only catch was they couldn't fly (look but don't touch anything) for I think the first 300 hrs. WOW! Quite the pilots.
I'm flying with a guy right now who was in Japan flying a -8 on contract for ANA. They had DE FO's on thir Q400's. The only catch was they couldn't fly (look but don't touch anything) for I think the first 300 hrs. WOW! Quite the pilots.
The key word here is "STUDENTS"! At 250 hours they are still very much learning the basics. I don't mean straight and level, I mean line flying. The realities of flying the line vs flying at a college are night and day.
There is already enough pressure to get Jazz planes in the air due to the nature of our CPA. Throw in a new FO straight from college and the Captain is basically left to decide on his/her own. I know when I was was an F/O, I always added my 2 cents when it came to a go or no go and considered the two pilots a team when making such a decision. Now as a captain, I always include my F/O in the process and value their opinion.
I am sorry but a 250 hour college grad will have little to offer as their real world experience will be limited at best. I doubt that Seneca or any of the colleges go flying around heavy thunderstorms or bring their little piston twins into real icing conditions.
300 hours no touchy anything? That is great. Now you have one person doing all the flying and more than likely 75% of the work. What happens at the end of 300 hours? They get to touch the controls? You mean to tell me that 300 hours of watching someone fly is going to make your hands and feet better? I doubt it.
And whomever it was that mentioned all the above airlines that take college grads might be missing something. Most of those airlines have extensive POST college programs set-up to help the pilots make the transition to spring chicken to shite hawk. Jazz, in it's infinate cheapness, will more than likely give them the same training that a 2500 hour 1900 pilot would get and send them off into the wild blue yonder.
You can give me the names of all the airlines in the world that hire college grads and you still will not convince me that it is a good idea. In most cases, they are forced to do it whereas in Canada, we may be getting lower time resumes but are no where near NEEDING to hire from the colleges.
I would sooner see a piloty that has 1000 hours of bush flying with a fresh IFR instead wet behind the ears college grad. At least the bush pilot will have had to make a decision at some point in those 1000 hours and he/she will at least seen some real world weather and had to hand fly a plane onto a runway in less than ideal conditions. 15 knots on a dry surface with an instructor is not considered real world experience in my eyes.
Some bean head at Jazz has found a way to save money by doing this and that is that. Well, let's see how much is saved when somebody bends some metal or god help us, augers one into the trees!
There is already enough pressure to get Jazz planes in the air due to the nature of our CPA. Throw in a new FO straight from college and the Captain is basically left to decide on his/her own. I know when I was was an F/O, I always added my 2 cents when it came to a go or no go and considered the two pilots a team when making such a decision. Now as a captain, I always include my F/O in the process and value their opinion.
I am sorry but a 250 hour college grad will have little to offer as their real world experience will be limited at best. I doubt that Seneca or any of the colleges go flying around heavy thunderstorms or bring their little piston twins into real icing conditions.
300 hours no touchy anything? That is great. Now you have one person doing all the flying and more than likely 75% of the work. What happens at the end of 300 hours? They get to touch the controls? You mean to tell me that 300 hours of watching someone fly is going to make your hands and feet better? I doubt it.
And whomever it was that mentioned all the above airlines that take college grads might be missing something. Most of those airlines have extensive POST college programs set-up to help the pilots make the transition to spring chicken to shite hawk. Jazz, in it's infinate cheapness, will more than likely give them the same training that a 2500 hour 1900 pilot would get and send them off into the wild blue yonder.
You can give me the names of all the airlines in the world that hire college grads and you still will not convince me that it is a good idea. In most cases, they are forced to do it whereas in Canada, we may be getting lower time resumes but are no where near NEEDING to hire from the colleges.
I would sooner see a piloty that has 1000 hours of bush flying with a fresh IFR instead wet behind the ears college grad. At least the bush pilot will have had to make a decision at some point in those 1000 hours and he/she will at least seen some real world weather and had to hand fly a plane onto a runway in less than ideal conditions. 15 knots on a dry surface with an instructor is not considered real world experience in my eyes.
Some bean head at Jazz has found a way to save money by doing this and that is that. Well, let's see how much is saved when somebody bends some metal or god help us, augers one into the trees!
Traf! .. thats 2 now?! .. Do we call that "on a roll"?
Its just not a good idea .. Its not fair to the guy in the left seat, and secondly he's not paid enough to babysit.
Cat .. this is the year the first baby-boomer turns 60 .. lets hope that prevents any hiccup's.
Cheers,
Loc
Its just not a good idea .. Its not fair to the guy in the left seat, and secondly he's not paid enough to babysit.
Cat .. this is the year the first baby-boomer turns 60 .. lets hope that prevents any hiccup's.
Cheers,
Loc
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Jet Dog
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Traf and Loc are right, we are not babysitters, nor instructors, I've flown with FO even captains who I was amazed at were still flying due to their lack of incompetance. With an FO just sitting there, CRM is N/A, the job is now single pilot, leading to fatigue quicker, so does that mean duty days are now 8hrs? How about an increase in pay for Capts for babysitting and SIFR
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Elessar_44
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Dick
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Isn't that a good thing?Jet Dog wrote:Traf and Loc are right, we are not babysitters, nor instructors, I've flown with FO even captains who I was amazed at were still flying due to their lack of incompetance. With an FO just sitting there, CRM is N/A, the job is now single pilot, leading to fatigue quicker, so does that mean duty days are now 8hrs? How about an increase in pay for Capts for babysitting and SIFR
Elessar:
The program in question is a trial project and is only open to those who are currently finishing up their training with a few of the aviation colleges spread out throughout the country. Seneca seems to figure prominently in the discussions on this forum, however the "competition" is not exclusive to Seneca. Given that you have already completed your training and I assume did so privately along with your University Degree - you are not elligible. Going North, East, West or South for that matter is a wise move.
As to the merits, outcome and all other particulars that involve this trial project, I would encourage every Jazz Pilot out there to voice their concern with the appropriate reps at ALPA. Venting on the forum is just that.
The program in question is a trial project and is only open to those who are currently finishing up their training with a few of the aviation colleges spread out throughout the country. Seneca seems to figure prominently in the discussions on this forum, however the "competition" is not exclusive to Seneca. Given that you have already completed your training and I assume did so privately along with your University Degree - you are not elligible. Going North, East, West or South for that matter is a wise move.
As to the merits, outcome and all other particulars that involve this trial project, I would encourage every Jazz Pilot out there to voice their concern with the appropriate reps at ALPA. Venting on the forum is just that.
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Dark Helmet
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Sure they might have done that Ziggy, but in those days they didn't have the multitude of seasoned pilots available to them. Jazz has cut their own throat. By dumbing down their pilot base now, they have built a wall of inexperience that any experienced pilot would not want to be behind. Honestly, how great would you feel if you were behind one of these college grads?? We were all there (at the end of college/training), with the stars in our eyes, BUT...we all went out and got the REQUIRED experience to progress through the Canadian industry. These guys haven't.
I think Brain St. Germain put it best one day while looking through a stack of 200hr resumes in Pickle Lake we me. We flipped to this one poor SOB who had bolded on his resume Proficient at soft field landings. Brian then said, @#$!, at 200hrs you're not proficient at starting the damn thing.
Always stuck with me as being totally true.
good luck jazz captains. you'll need it.
Always stuck with me as being totally true.
good luck jazz captains. you'll need it.
Air Canada did indeed hire a bunch of guys right out of flight school. However they all sat sideways for quite sometime before they ever actually flew the airplane.ziggy wrote:I bet theres a lot of senior Air Canada 767 and 340 Captains that came directly out of Selkirk. Correct me if im wrong, but i believe the airlines, US and Canadian, used to go to schools (much like the military) to recruit new pilots.
