Aerobatic Instructors Rating

comanchepilot · Post by **comanchepilot** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:20 pm

Just wondering if anyone has an aerobatic instructors rating and where they got it from. I am looking to do my Class II sometime this coming May and need to find somewhere to train.

I have been looking at Harv's Air in Steinbach (Winnipeg), MB, but don't know of anywhere closer (I am in the Niagara Region, ON).

I already have about 200 hours tail dragger time, and my CPL, so I am ready to go as soon as this semester is done at school.

If anyone has anything, please let me know your experiences and your recommendations.

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:46 am

Hedley is a class I aerobatic instructor.. I’m sure he will be able to give you any info you need. He is based in smith falls, just SW of the Ottawa zone.

CaptPup · Post by **CaptPup** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:32 am

Check out Ottawa Aviation Services (http://www.ottawaflighttraining.com). We've got a Grob 115-C and D plus a few aerobatic instructors on staff. Give us a call (613-737-2933), and we'll help you out.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:50 am

Yeah, call OAS - remember we fly Pitts, and while it is easier to fly aerobatics in, it is a LOT harder to land!

As long as you've got inverted fuel and oil systems, you should be able to do all the maneuvers req'd for the class 2 acro instructor rating (slow roll, immelman, 1/2 rvs cu-8, etc)

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#421_91

comanchepilot · Post by **comanchepilot** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:23 am

Thanks for the info guys, I am looking into it... just another quick question though...

How do you interpret the following amendment to the CARs?

https://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/gene ... 602.27.htm

I believe that this means because radio contact is not required in Class E, that you can go off and practice in any Class E whenever you want, providing that you follow parts a), c), and d) of CAR 602.27. Prior to that you would have had to either use a box or go to Class G, am I understanding that right?

I am also wondering why this has not been formally included in the CARs, as it is still listed as an exemption.

Thanks to any and all for your thoughts.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:04 pm

Yes, you can perform aerobatics in controlled airspace, as long as it is conducted in accordance with the "exemption", which has been renewed several times over the years (thanks Wayne).

Changing CAR 602.27 is probably 'way down on the to-do list at CARAC.

There is no such thing as a "box" or waivered airspace in Canada.

P.S. You can also get an "individual" SFOC exempting you from CAR 602.27(d) as well - see CAR 603.67. Of course, a contest or airshow will also have an SFOC exempting it as well.

comanchepilot · Post by **comanchepilot** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:39 pm

By box I meant Class F Advisory(A) airspace... there are a few in my area and we call them "The Box." For example, there are two over CYSN, though not on the charts, when informing CZYZ that they are active, they are referred to the "upper" and "lower" box.

Hooked · Post by **Hooked** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:42 am

Call John Greer at Future Air in Holland landing. I am currently flying with him for the TW check-out and as soon as I have 10 TW I am going to start on the aerobatic class II. I have also found a DFTE through TC for the ride and am meeting with him friday. Holland landing will be about a 2 hour drive for you from Niagra depending on where you are. It is in a 7KCAB. PM me and I can give you the number. Good Luck

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:09 pm

If you do chose to train from Holland Landing you should never let yourself get comfortable with that stip. Good pilots have died there and I'm sorry to say that I'm certain more will in the future.

Be safe and don't ever force anything that doesn't feel right.

RVR6000 · Post by **RVR6000** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:24 pm

Whats so dangerous about holland landing.

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:50 pm

It's built on a ridge with a sharp drop off on three sides, power lines on both ends, buildings in every direction, water tower on final, and the wind accelerates rapidly over the hill creating either unexpected cross-winds or vicious downdrafts on short final. Even having grown up flying in the mountains and foothills I never got comfortable with that one, which was probably for the best - complacency kills.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:11 pm

I guess I shouldn't find it surprising that no one at 4900 Yonge St has ever heard of CAR 405.24:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#405_24

405.24 No person shall operate a training aircraft at an aerodrome unless the aerodrome is suitable for the aircraft

(a) to be safely operated ...

(iii) ... using normal piloting skills

CD · Post by CD » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:31 pm

Hedley wrote:Yes, you can perform aerobatics in controlled airspace, as long as it is conducted in accordance with the "exemption", which has been renewed several times over the years (thanks Wayne).

Changing CAR 602.27 is probably 'way down on the to-do list at CARAC.

Looks like it shouldn't be too much longer until it gets published... After all, the change was proposed and accepted in 1999...

NPA 1999-140 - Aerobatic Manoeuvres - Prohibited Areas and Flight Conditions 602.27 Pending Canada Gazette, Part I (Justice File Number: 10000-472)

Now it just needs to get legal blessing and then be published in the Gazette for public comment.

RatherBeFlying · Post by **RatherBeFlying** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:12 pm

Holland Landing is a perfectly adequate airport for a Citabria, C-172 or whatever approaches at 70 kt or less, but it demands respect, i.e. arrival on the numbers within 5 kt. of approach speed, especially 08 with the downslope.

A long, shallow approach to 26 is a good way to get caught in slope downwash -- and certain wind conditions can produce slope downwash well above the runway.

Approaching 08 the ground before the airport is higher than the threshold; so, you do find youself closer to the ground than approaching a runway on flatland. Yes, there's wires marked with cones. Because of the downslope, excess airspeed requires a go-around. A visiting pilot nosed over a C-170 last year.

The runway itself is on a varying slope; in fact, you can find runway 08 descending faster than the a/c until the taxiway.

If you're used to long floats on long runways, it might be a very good idea for a visiting pilot to get an airport checkout with one of the instructors.

comanchepilot · Post by **comanchepilot** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:24 pm

Sounds like this place might be a fun challenge, albeit one that deserves respect. If I were to go there for my aerobatic training, I would likely fly in in a PA-24-250 instead of driving 2 hours each way. I have gotten it in and out of a 1700' strip before that I am sure is much worse that Holland Landing.

This place has a grass strip that is tree lined all down one side and completely at one end, has a bit of slope to it, a slight dog leg, and power lines at the other end... I will try to get a picture and post it next time I am up flying...

Anyone wants to take a look, PM me and I will give you the coordinates...

Aerobatic Instructors Rating

Aerobatic Instructors Rating

Aerobatic Instructor Rating