RCMP

[PARADISE]

I was listening to the news today and it is great to see the mythical veil that protects the RCMP being scutinized. The only time I have respect for this pack of drug dealing, murderers is when they have a gun in my face (this has happened to me twice!!). They are the countires biggest criminals and I enjoy knowing these rotton bastards are squirming. Nova Scotia is even considering giving them the boot and re-establishing a provincial force, a move I applaud.

I know there are good members of the RCMP and I hope when the patheric degenerates in the force with their untouchable airs and sense of entitlement get, hopefully jailed, the true men and women in the force can restore the honour the mounties once warrented.

Paradise

[the_professor]

The RCMP is totally out of control, and they have deluded themselves into thinking they are above the law.

The most recent expose involved a paid informant (well into six figures) that had the mounties coordinating a huge investigation and running wiretaps, and it was all based on the information provided by the informant, with no cross-checks.

The mounties deceived the judge in order to get wiretap permission, etc. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, by the way, the informant was entered into the Witness Protection Program, and is now untouchable after stringing the mounties along.

Take a look at this link for the litany of wrongdoings by the RCMP just in the last 15 months.

SOMEONE NEEDS TO ACT AGANIST THESE CLOWNS.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... tory/Front

[splitpin]

So--correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying you are not all that fond of Canadas Finest??

[JakeYYZ]

Some guy goes in witness protection and kills someone..well..tough luck.
Shoot a kid in northern B.C. after arresting him for an open beer...hey..that's the breaks.
But tamper with the pensions of RCMP officers....whoa....
time for a public inquiry!

OTTAWA — Allegations of cover-up in the RCMP pension scandal will soon be the subject of two parallel probes -- one by a Commons committee and the other by a government-appointed investigator.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ional/home

I for one will be shocked...SHOCKED...if a Cretin toadie like Zac the Tabarnac proved capable of corruption, investigation blocking and kickbacks.

Especially after all those above-reproach investigations he performed in the Colis d'hostie era of Auberge sellin' and mafia minister lovin'.

To quote Steve Dyin': we need to be back in power....because we owe de mob dose favours...and to cures dat climate once again

[Stoptheworld]

A bloody shame and disgrace.

So now we have talk of cover-ups at the highest levels, raiding a pension fund, interference with investigations etc...

Does this mean that we can (re)-open the investigations into HRDC boondoggle, gun registry, Shawinigate, tainted blood, Adscam, Peppergate. Amazing how the finest police force in the world couldn't trace 40 Million stolen by their political masters, the Liberal Party of Canada.

God bless the Men and Women on the front line who put their butts out there every day. However, it looks like the elite, top echelons were every bit as corrupt as the scum they were appointed by; Chretien, Martin and their fellow travellers. Just like everything else in our country, the Liberals treat it as their own little fiefdom to plunder and corrupt.

[LH]

I hear a lotta bitching and yelling now, but I didn't hear diddley from any Canadian when the RCMP and the government reduced their Basic Training from 11 1/2 months down to 3 months. Said the training would amount to the same, ignored the surveyed and asked for comments of the then Members and carried-on anyway. They actually believed that you can take training for anything, reduce it from almost a year down to 3 months and still deliver the same product.......idiots. That states nothing at all about the horrendous amount of necessary subjects that were thrown out and unable to be taught because of lack of time in the new training regimen. The entrance requirements also went through a 100% change and with all of the above stupid/uninformed Canadians thought that the RCMP of the last 30 years was the same Force that went before......give your heads a collective shake. The ONLY similarity between the one now and the one that existed before is the colour red. Even the uniform has gone through a hysterectomy for Christ's sake and I never heard any bitching about that from Canadians either. The comments from then-Members back in 1965, forcast exactly what was going to happen because of the changes and it started to ramp-up already in 1970. All those comments and protestations of that time were given the importance of making possibly Page 5 on any newspaper.

Again because of professed ignorance or inaction or both, Canadians again have EXACTLY what they deserve. They did the EXACT same with the military and now it's the RCMP. Good on ya all and I hope you have to really, really hold your nose on this one because 'baby' you ain't seen nuttin' yet now that the rock has been turned even partially over. I also trust that Canadians all will kindly take note as to who "turned that rock over" and spilled the beans in the first place eh? I also trust and hold out hope that all Canadians now reading and viewing news about these happenings will realize something else. Every single one of those Senior NCO's and Officers has now effectively terminated their careers in the RCMP. At best they will "mark time" until their retirement ages and then disappear forever. Considering their apparent collective ages, I have no doubt that that is also one of the major reasons why they are testifying at this time. So when that "shitty brush" starts swinging that masses ALL Members of the RCMP into one clump of ignorant, corruptable assholes........don't forget what Force those testifying Members came from either and how much would be known without their coming forward. 'Nuff said.

[2R]

A fish rots from the head down

The corruption of the best is the worst

Although i do find hope in what LH is saying that the system does have some brave and honest people in it who are willing to put their own self interests behind the interests of our Country.The system is working as we now know some of the wrongdoings.

As one old book I read said "There is nothing so constructed by the wit of man that in time is not subject to corruption " Book of common prayer 1542

[PARADISE]

It is great to hear all your thoughts on the Mounties.

I never doubted the boys in red until they trampled all over my basic rights as a 'free' canadian citizen.
When I sought recourse to the gross violations rought aganist me (and my civil rights) I was told basically to " @#$! off, it happens".
Having an RCMP, not wave but stick her pistol right in my face, without reason, and order me to "shut the @#$! up, and lay on the ground" also I was told "you have no rights, your mine". I didn't shit my pants but I might as well have, the expierence changed my thinking forever. The fact that what happened to me did warrent dismisal of the 'officer' in question, and the fact that I persued the point to the bitter end and nothing happened showed me what the RCMP actually stand for now..... nothing. They are cowards.

[2R]

It takes a lot to get a cop to drop the donut and draw a weapon You must have done something to get them to draw a weapon.Most of them usually have to be shot at before they get the gun out.

What did you do to make an officer feel that they had to draw the weapon to protect themselves ???

[fogghorn]

I feel that the mounties have gotten more and more paranoid over the past few years. Especially since the incident in Alberta when four of them were shot dead in a totally avoidable screw up in which heads should have rolled at the top. Now they tend to go right over the top with their overreactions. Three citizens of very questionable threat were shot dead by rookie cops in B.C. in the last while. One was a youth in custody who was shot in "self defense" - in the back of the head. The cops have obfuscated and been tight lipped since that one, the communities involved now have very little use for mounties. The rookie in question is still collecting our money, just riding a desk now in Kamloops last I heard. It is time for a shake up and a change in recruitment and postings, at the same time these members need to get a grip. About the only time you see police presence is when they are reacting. I believe gum shoe police work and proactive policing is a thing of the past, at least where Im at. I have had a lot of respect for police over the past and have seen them pull off some really balsy arrests with not a shot fired. These days sadly seem to be gone.[/i]

[trey kule]

I have a couple of comments:

first, there are 26,000 members of the force. they are humans. they are subject to emotions just like the rest of us. And, despite training, they will make mistakes. for those who were on the receiving end of the mistakes I understand it can be bad. But for the rank and file of the force I believe there is vast majority of good, honest mounties.
Now on to the more general issue. The whole civil service in Canada has run itself for so long, that they now feel that the end justifies the means. We see it, not only with The RCMP, but with TC, Revenue Canada, Export and Development, etc etc. And Canada does not have a proper set of checks and balances in place so that corruption has completely taken over the senior postions at virtually all government departments.

What we need is some people to go to be sentenced to 20 years or so to discourage these practices, rather than the three months of house arrest that seems to be the standard.

Years ago I felt that the mounties (and the military) should best deal with some of the type of issues here internally. In retrospect I was wrong.
It never occurred to me that the senior people would use this cloak to cover corruption up. what is needed is a truely independent ombudsman, and the only ones who seem to have that position is the judges outside of Quebec.

My thoughts anyway

[LH]

First of all let's all understand something. The RCMP are NOT a police force like any other in the world. The last word of their name is "Police" just because at their inception, that's the word that was used so as not to offend the Americans in the political climate of that day.

Secondly, simple things like their Drill Manual are direct copies of the same manual for British Army of India 1859.

Their Members have a Regimental Number that they are known by and the number on their Badge denoting them as a Member is secondary.

Their drill manual for equitation is also a direct copy of the one belonging long ago to the British Army. How to control crowds on horseback using those horses is also a direct copy of the same manual.

The majority of their first Officers were ex-British Army or Canadian Army of that time.

When anyone enters the RCMP for training now or in the past, they are formed into a"Troop" consisting of 32 Members. They do ALL further functions in training as one Troop of 32 people all functioning at the same time and in unison. Again, right from the training manuals of the British Army of long ago.

The boots they wear with their "pegged" britches are also direct British Army copies of eons ago that British Army Officers were issued. Their very finely tailored "Bananna Pants" that they wear as part of their formal dress wear also owe their existance to the same source.

Their are a host of other items, but suffice it to say that they are "Para-military" by definition and that is why they saw service as Provost Corps in WW2 because there was little to convert them to.......they were already trained in that regard.

So when one is trying to compare the RCMP to any other police force, the comparison falls apart very easily because there's so little that's similar. The duties alone, that the NWMP, RNWMP and todays RCMP were/are responsible for enforcing knows no comparison with any other police force in the US or Canada or any other part of this globe. They also have their own Air Service and Naval Service and it was made so because of the duties that they have to perform in those areas also. They are in effect, the FBI, the ATF, the Secret Service, the Border Patrol, the US Marshals Service, the State Troopers, the County Sheriffs, and many times the Town Sheriffs of Canada. they are that because their duites and responsibilities are exactly the same as ALL of the aforementioned put together. That is all accomplished over what is now the largest country on earth and with less than 30,000 Members.

In any group of almost 30,000 you are going to have a small percentage of "scuzz-buckets" that somehow managed to escape being run-off in training. You also don't castrate ALL the Members for the actions of the minority. Doing so means that because of the actions of certain members of the CAF in Somalia years ago, we should villify ALL the members of the CAF. Any other large organization has the same problems and I defy anyone to name a large organization that doesn't have that problem to some degree. Even the Pope has had his problems in that regard, so it hits everywhere. Lastly, they are also the "mirror reflection" of society because that's where they came from. They are "one of us" who took on a job to protect the rest of us and sometimes a small percentage forget that fact on BOTH sides of the discussion.

[2R]

dp whoopsie

[2R]

whoops

[2R]

Well said LH

[CID]

I must live a sheltered life. I've managed to avoid having the RCMP point a gun at me even once. Or maybe I avoid associating with criminals or breaking the law.

[the_professor]

In any group of almost 30,000 you are going to have a small percentage of "scuzz-buckets" that somehow managed to escape being run-off in training.

You said yourself that they train in troops of 32, not 26,000, which is a pretty small number to keep track of when you're trying to spot hotheads who will shoot unarmed civilians who have already complied with your instructions, reference the alleged pharamacy robber in BC.

Nobody will ever know what happened to Ian Bush in BC, shot in the back of the head while alone with the arresting officer.

The Globe and Mail ran an article Saturday [not available online] describing not just these acts (and other outrageous violations) from the rank-and-file, but also detailing the white collar probes that the force has royally screwed up in recent years.

- Such as the illegal raid on journalist Stevie Cameron's home as a muzzling technique once she started to dig into the Airbus affair.

- Then there was the illegal raid on the president of the Business Development Bank of Canada after he blocked the loan sought by the Hotel formerly owned by Chretien.

- Maher Arar.

- The anonymous informant who produced no useable information and is now responsible for killing someone after entering the witness protection program.

The RCMP have got huge problems with their rank-and-file working the streets, and they have huge problems with senior officials, who too often have been the puppets of the federal government.

We need a public inquiry to blow the lid off all of this.

And CID, note that the common thread among many of these incidents is that they do not involve criminals or people breaking the law, but instead involve innocent citizens who are targeted by a police force that knows no accountability.

[happily.retired]

First of all there have been some huge screw-ups lately. No one's going to deny that.

However, having the community turn against the RCMP only hinders their ability to do good. Even if their were sufficient outrage to overhaul the system the intermediate step would involve forcing the police to take additional measures to protect themselves. Which is of no benefit to anyone.

Also there are a few comments of questionable accuracy in here.
- LH I can't comment on what training requirements were in '65 but training is now 24 weeks at depot followed by three years of on the job training at their first posting. And what's your point about them wearing military pants and boots? Look back a few hundred years and all countries had a single force that served as both military and police. That's the origin of police forces world-wide. I personally don't consider this unique, problematic or fixable.

Prof - There aren't a bunch of psychos coming out of training. Too many years of serving in screwed up situations is usually the source of problems in the thought processes of our officers, so your point about screening at depot seems rather irrelivant.

And for the record there have been improvements made in the screening process. Not the least important of which is the addition of the polygraph which insures we don't have established liars in the force. Unfortunately it's a double edged sword since half of the applicants who make it as far as the polygraph don't make it past, which is part of why they are having to recruit more than ever. So the fact that they are changing their entance policies is not causing them to accept lower quality trainees it is a result of them eliminating more of those applicants than ever (for good cause)

[trey kule]

CID wrote:

Or maybe I avoid associating with criminals or breaking the law.

Not if your with TC.

[the_professor]

However, having the community turn against the RCMP only hinders their ability to do good. Even if their were sufficient outrage to overhaul the system the intermediate step would involve forcing the police to take additional measures to protect themselves. Which is of no benefit to anyone.

So the police cannot be questioned or investigated for their reckless behaviour, because that will only make things worse? As in they're untouchable? This is Canada, not Burma.

Prof - There aren't a bunch of psychos coming out of training. Too many years of serving in screwed up situations is usually the source of problems in the thought processes of our officers, so your point about screening at depot seems rather irrelivant.

The Ian Bush shooting, the pharamacy shooting, and the Mayerthorpe debacle all involved rookie officers who either did not receive adequate training and/or exercised extremely poor judgement. Nobody has ever answered how four Mounties, guarding the premises of a known police hater, allowed themselves to get in a position where all four were shot. How does that happen? It points to a recruiting and training problem if you ask me.

[happily.retired]

The young men in Mayerthorpe were given supremely incomplete information to work with. That is the fault of those who sent them into the situation, and it would be a sad mistake to place the blame upon the dead and pretend that the problem is solved. Their superiors are the ones who need a whoopin.

I wasn't saying that the Mounties should not be inverstigated by an independant group and held accountable. I am suggesting that having a bunch of random citizens running around hating all officers is dangerous, and the best way to make sure nobody has anything to hold against the RCMP is to make them accountable.

Most importantly we need to make sure that blame is metered out accordingly, not just allowed to roll down hill to the rookies. Heads need to roll at all levels, especially the top.

[swede]

The RCMP seems to have undergone a fundamental change for the worse over the past few years. They do little other than knee jerk when they are kicked in the teeth. I have driven a 1000 kliks across country and the only cruiser I see is parked in front of timnmy ho's. This force is a joke.

[swede]

In all fairness, I have seen them come flying out of their lair pretty quickly to apprehend some clown who was running around on foot trying to evade them. Three cruisers came shooting off a side road near the local detachment with guns a blazin in this particular pursuit and nearly creamed my vehicle as well as other private vehicles while we drove down a main highway. They certainly have priorities, maybe they were late for timmy time.

[Nark]

Swede and professer

You both have obviously have inside knowledge of all aspects of the RCMP. I don't know why these other forum members are bothering trying to debate with you, they really have no idea what they're talking about.


Why don't you both read a book. I hear Harry Potter is a good lite read.

[the_professor]

More errors in judgement from the rank and file. I encourage all to visit this site regularly -- it is one way we can keep the pressure on forcing some accountability for the RCMP:

http://www.rcmpwatch.com/

This was also in the national papers yesterday (Apr 9/07):

Mountie was drinking before car crash

A Prince George RCMP officer has been docked nine days’ pay after he took an unmarked police cruiser to a house party without permission, had some drinks, then hit a parked car on his way home.

Const. Peter MacMillan also left the scene of the accident and failed to report the collision for more than 12 hours, according to a decision from the RCMP disciplinary board that heard his case.

The three board members, all senior RCMP officers, had no direct evidence that MacMillan was impaired at the time but found his delay in reporting the collision suspicious.