King Air 200

Snowking · Post by **Snowking** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:24 am

Does a King Air 200 require a PPC, or a PCC to fly as SIC?

ADIRU · Post by **ADIRU** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:57 pm

You need a PPC to fly a King Air as SIC in Canada because it is a "two crew" aircraft here.

A PCC only works if the aircraft is "single pilot" but the customer wants two. (eg. C-208 or PC-12)

loopy · Post by **loopy** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:59 pm

It is not a transport category airplane. It is also certified as single pilot. If your company ops manual requires 2 crew, you would only need a PCC.

jimmyjazz · Post by **jimmyjazz** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:23 pm

I beleive it would require a initial PPC then recurent traing as PCC iv'e been looking into this lately and found most of my answers in air standards 724. I have a thread about this going in questions called PPC/PCC

loopy · Post by **loopy** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:26 pm

Ooops. That rings a bell JJ. I believe you are correct.

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:59 pm

A King Air 200 is not a two crew aircraft. To be a FO, you only need a PCC, and a type rating.

Say Altitude · Post by **Say Altitude** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:13 pm

Depends - if you run it 703 (9 pax or less) you can run it single pilot but if you run it 704 (10 pax or more) then the SIC has to have a PPC.

Snowking · Post by **Snowking** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:59 pm

Thanks for the replies guys. Does anyone know what the max. passenger configuration of the 200 is?

canadian_bacon · Post by **canadian_bacon** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:09 pm

Eventhough the BE20 is a single pilot aircraft, it is high performance and requires a type rating. Therefore if the SIC doesn't hold a BE20 type rating, he will need to do an initial PPC to qualify for the rating and then PCC for the remainder of the time spent as SIC. (Reference CASS 723.88)

canadian_bacon · Post by **canadian_bacon** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:10 pm

......reference CASS 723.88

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:46 pm

If operating the 200 commuter then sic needs a ppc, if operating air taxi sic only has to do a pcc and that will also get him type rated. Are 200s can hold 12 pax 2 crew with a pod on it, with no pod we can carry 10 pax 2 crew.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:51 pm

The maximum certified occupancy of a Be200 is 15, including crew and you require a type rating, therefore a PPC initally and a PCC after that, at least for commercial operators.

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:53 pm

The company I worked for I went there with never being in a 200 before and for my right seat training I only did in house pcc in 703. If you are going in 704 then you will need a ppc.

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:54 pm

turbo-prop wrote:If operating the 200 commuter then sic needs a ppc, if operating air taxi sic only has to do a pcc and that will also get him type rated. Are 200s can hold 12 pax 2 crew with a pod on it, with no pod we can carry 10 pax 2 crew.

Do you carry 2 pax in the pod or what?

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:04 pm

Yes, but you have to make sure the pod doors are properly closed.

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:38 pm

no but i would like to put some there sometimes. if we don't have the pod then we keep the back open for luggage. We don't have luggage racks on the top of are 200s.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 am

Canadian Bacon is right. Being that the Vne is 260 (over 250) the BE-20 is high performance and therefore requires a PPC and type rating for the initial, and a PCC for recurrent training. If you are in the right seat with a PCC you may have an ops spec, or you may be about to take it up the corn-shute when you go to get your ATPL. TC is starting to get stickier on this one for sure. cj

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:41 am

Max pax for the BE20 is 9. Max for the BE20 1300 HDC is 13. The HDC has two emergency exits rather than one and an extra big yellow jungle. And the seats are different (not interchangeable with a regular BE20).

ahramin

pull out · Post by **pull out** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:04 am

it seems everyone has a different opinion about the 200. Ahramin, where did you get your info from. The 200 isn't 9 pax limited. SOME operators limit their 200 to 9 pax so they can stay 703. The 200 can carry more than 9 pax. Even the 100 is certified fro 15 people, incl pilots. The 200 has a Vne of 259 knots. The 200 with a pod has a Vne of 239 knots.

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:38 am

B200 VNE

BB-2 thru BB-198 270 KCAS (269 KIAS)
BB-199 and after, BL-1 and after 260 KCAS (259 KIAS)

Unless aircraft has been modified by Beechcraft Kit Number 101-5033-1S

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:09 pm

Yeah northern is right about the Vne numbers, but I've heard a few other BE20 pilots say the vne is lower. Maybe different models have different limitations. I can assure you that ours (1300 HDC) has a Vne of 260 and the type certificate allows 15 passenger seats with a max zero fuel weight of 11000#. TC told us specifically that PPC's are required to operate 703.

There's a few passengers I wouldn't have minded stuffing in the pod. A couple of nurses too!

cj

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:46 pm

Go to the original type certificate. The maximum occupancy( regardless of the rules the airplane is operated under) is 15. Operators can choose to normally configure the airplane for 9 seats plus the crew. The belly pod has nothing to do with it. That is an STC'd mod. Limits with the pod are company imposed. CATPASS (Commuter Air Technology, San Antonio Texas) and Beechcraft have developed the Be1300, an STC'd commuter version of the B200 with maximum occupancy of 17 as is the 300 and 350. That's what Rob King has. Requires 2 forward exits to meet egress standards. Probabaly panel mounted avionics and light weight seats etc to provide more payload. I think it's a good airplane but with a crowd killer or cattle car seating.

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:22 pm

Quite right pullout. Did not think that one all the way through. Now how the hell do i delete a post? AvCanada, it says on the bottom i can delete my posts but i cannot figure out how. Help.

ahramin

tink · Post by **tink** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:04 am

The Vne changes with the addition of the spar strap which increases zero fuel weight upto 11000 pounds. It reduces the Vne to 249 Kts. That is the only time the 200 is not a high performance airplane. (NC's are not high performance)

PPC vs PCC.

As stipulated, if the aircraft is operated under 703 single pilot then there is only 1 PPC'd pilot. The other can not log time so it doesn't matter. If operated 2 crew then the Captain needs a PPC and the First Officer needs a PCC with a type endorsement should the aircraft be high performance. (which you can receive through TC)

If the aircraft is operated under 704, then both crew members require a PPC and a type rating if high performance.

703 vs 704 is pax 9 or less vs 10 or more
(CVR required for 6 or more pax when operated 2 crew)
You can run a 200 single pilot upto 9 with no CVR but you can not have anyone in the right seat .

Snagmaster E · Post by **Snagmaster E** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:02 am

ahramin wrote:Quite right pullout. Did not think that one all the way through. Now how the hell do i delete a post? AvCanada, it says on the bottom i can delete my posts but i cannot figure out how. Help.

ahramin

When you go to view your post there should be an "X" in the top right corner: Either it's the delete function, or it's so you can vote in Gerry Boyle's Newfoundland Separation Federation (the NSF)

"If you can make an "X", you're my kind of people!!!"

King Air 200

King Air 200

Kingair 200