Hi all, I'm looking for some feedback from pilots who don't fly for a living. The reason I ask is that I will be graduating from university next year, and I'm trying to decide whether to make flying a hobby or a career. After reading this site for a few years, I feel like I have a good idea of what I'd be getting into in a civilian or military flying career, but I don't really know much about the recreational flying lifestyle and how people make it work with a non-flying career. I've drafted out a few questions below, but I'm mostly just interested in hearing what the recreational pilot experience is like.
-Do you own or co-own your own plane?
-What steps to you take to keep current and prevent yourself from becoming a weekend warrior?
-Is your "day job" full time? How often do you get up in the air and how do you make time for it?
-Do you have a spouse/SO or kids and how does that affect your flying?
-What do you do to challenge yourself and keep your flying interesting?
-Do you ever get tired of $100 hamburgers? What other excuses do you use to go flying?
-Do you have any advice on how to get the most bang for your buck in recreational flying?
-Are you involved in any pilot organizations such as COPA or CASARA? Are you involved in your local flying club? What is your perspective/opinion on membership in such entities?
Thanks,
-Lommer
Private Pilots - how do you keep it real?
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
I think it all depends on what your dayjob is and what kind of flying you're looking to do recreationally.
Me, if I could afford to own my own Supercub on floats and afford to fly it 2-300 hours a year, I would happily forego flying as a career. On the other hands, some other people are probably not into hunting and fishing in the great Canadian wilderness as much as myself, and might want a solid IFR aircraft to get them and their friends around, which of course would be more expensive.
Important questions to ask yourself would be: Will I be able to afford to fly recreationally in the aircraft of my choice as much as I would like? What kind of aircraft would I like to have? Will I be happy with my dayjob? Will I have time to fly with work and family commitments (only you can answer this question)?
Me, if I could afford to own my own Supercub on floats and afford to fly it 2-300 hours a year, I would happily forego flying as a career. On the other hands, some other people are probably not into hunting and fishing in the great Canadian wilderness as much as myself, and might want a solid IFR aircraft to get them and their friends around, which of course would be more expensive.
Important questions to ask yourself would be: Will I be able to afford to fly recreationally in the aircraft of my choice as much as I would like? What kind of aircraft would I like to have? Will I be happy with my dayjob? Will I have time to fly with work and family commitments (only you can answer this question)?
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Jungle Jim
- Rank 6
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 6:29 pm
I've got a Stinson 108-3 that I fly predominantly in the spring, summer and fall. I do the maintenance in the winter under the supervision of a local AME. This works well for me in that I only bring the keys in the flying months.( no tools) I live a mile from the strip and try to fly every day, weather permitting to get my fix. I'm based at Barrie, Springwater and generally make trip to Sudbury, Espanola, Elliot Lake, Killarney, Oshkosh, Marathon each summer.I find this arrangement satisfies my requirements.
I probably spend $9,000.00 per year on the plane in gas, insurance, tie downs, inspections, parts, etc. I know people that spend that on golf and at the end of the day my plane will be worth about what I have put into it. My golfing buddies won't be getting much for their old clubs and shoes. I keep telling myself that my investment is better than their's.
Jim
I probably spend $9,000.00 per year on the plane in gas, insurance, tie downs, inspections, parts, etc. I know people that spend that on golf and at the end of the day my plane will be worth about what I have put into it. My golfing buddies won't be getting much for their old clubs and shoes. I keep telling myself that my investment is better than their's.
Jim
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mikegtzg
- Rank 5
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:05 am
- Location: 1000' & 66 kts. above Manitoba
-Do you own or co-own your own plane?
I have a couple homebuilts. And put on 80-160 hours per year.
-What steps to you take to keep current and prevent yourself from becoming a weekend warrior?
By challenging myself on those days when I have no where to go. I get up in the air and practice being very precise in a variety of manouvers. As well I try and get a few hours a year under the hood with an instructor as a 'bacon saver' for the hopefully 'never' time when I make a poor weather judgement.
-Is your "day job" full time? How often do you get up in the air and how do you make time for it?
I try to get up 75-80 flights per year. It takes quite a commitment. But since I don't golf. I make it my primary recreational activity.
-Do you have a spouse/SO or kids and how does that affect your flying?
Not married...planning to start flying Young Eagles this year. So I get to make all my own poor decisions, and get to blame no one
-What do you do to challenge yourself and keep your flying interesting?
Going to new aerodromes and locations. Long cross countrys, and flying formation. I also will go flying when the conditions aren't perfect. This gradually becomes more often as personal limits change with experience
-Do you ever get tired of $100 hamburgers? What other excuses do you use to go flying?
Since I fly 2 seaters...my hamburgers only cost $50.00. And I get more hours in because I'm slower. Because its nice outside. And sometimes to cool off. I like to fly at flight level 70 (70F)
-Do you have any advice on how to get the most bang for your buck in recreational flying?
Purchase or build a homebuilt...many out there. great bang for the buck. Or an older taildragger and put it in owner-maintenance. if you are not comfortable with doing your own work. Fine...you can still get an AME to work on it. But that category gives you much more flexibility in how to best maintain the aircraft.
-Are you involved in any pilot organizations such as COPA or CASARA?
COPA is definately the organization that all Personal General Aviation pilots should be members of. CASARA is a great organization as well. They do some very ineteresting flying. There are other groups as well.
-Are you involved in your local flying club? What is your perspective/opinion on membership in such entities?
Flying clubs can be a variety of different entities. A local COPA chapter is one example. Larger flying clubs that do training and maintenance are another. There are also grops like the EAA and RAA primarily targeting owner maintained and homebuilt aircraft. All of these are great resources for aircraft, advice, and comradery. Often that older 'weekend warrior' pilot you see actually is a retired military or airline pilot with incredible experience and insight. A great resource that you rarely come across outside of these groups.
I have a couple homebuilts. And put on 80-160 hours per year.
-What steps to you take to keep current and prevent yourself from becoming a weekend warrior?
By challenging myself on those days when I have no where to go. I get up in the air and practice being very precise in a variety of manouvers. As well I try and get a few hours a year under the hood with an instructor as a 'bacon saver' for the hopefully 'never' time when I make a poor weather judgement.
-Is your "day job" full time? How often do you get up in the air and how do you make time for it?
I try to get up 75-80 flights per year. It takes quite a commitment. But since I don't golf. I make it my primary recreational activity.
-Do you have a spouse/SO or kids and how does that affect your flying?
Not married...planning to start flying Young Eagles this year. So I get to make all my own poor decisions, and get to blame no one
-What do you do to challenge yourself and keep your flying interesting?
Going to new aerodromes and locations. Long cross countrys, and flying formation. I also will go flying when the conditions aren't perfect. This gradually becomes more often as personal limits change with experience
-Do you ever get tired of $100 hamburgers? What other excuses do you use to go flying?
Since I fly 2 seaters...my hamburgers only cost $50.00. And I get more hours in because I'm slower. Because its nice outside. And sometimes to cool off. I like to fly at flight level 70 (70F)
-Do you have any advice on how to get the most bang for your buck in recreational flying?
Purchase or build a homebuilt...many out there. great bang for the buck. Or an older taildragger and put it in owner-maintenance. if you are not comfortable with doing your own work. Fine...you can still get an AME to work on it. But that category gives you much more flexibility in how to best maintain the aircraft.
-Are you involved in any pilot organizations such as COPA or CASARA?
COPA is definately the organization that all Personal General Aviation pilots should be members of. CASARA is a great organization as well. They do some very ineteresting flying. There are other groups as well.
-Are you involved in your local flying club? What is your perspective/opinion on membership in such entities?
Flying clubs can be a variety of different entities. A local COPA chapter is one example. Larger flying clubs that do training and maintenance are another. There are also grops like the EAA and RAA primarily targeting owner maintained and homebuilt aircraft. All of these are great resources for aircraft, advice, and comradery. Often that older 'weekend warrior' pilot you see actually is a retired military or airline pilot with incredible experience and insight. A great resource that you rarely come across outside of these groups.
I do fly for a living and although I like my job and it can be fun, I never had as much fun or enjoyment from flying as I did when I was flying privately my own 172.
Where you want, when you want, with who you want - for yourself and with no more pressure than you want to make for yourself.
So if you have a good non-flying job, save some money and buy / share an aircraft.
Want more challenge? Add an IFR or float rating, plan trips.
Where you want, when you want, with who you want - for yourself and with no more pressure than you want to make for yourself.
So if you have a good non-flying job, save some money and buy / share an aircraft.
Want more challenge? Add an IFR or float rating, plan trips.
Once you buy your airplane, flying is cheap. I flew with CASARA for three years, and that covered a lot expenses. I also did photo trips for a while. It is interesting. I would prefer to have a job at a desk, and fly for pleasure. I know a lot of professional pilots, and they do not seem to enjoy flying as much as I do.
Military flying would probably be great, but a job in the industry seems quite boring and not too rewarding, in the short term.
Military flying would probably be great, but a job in the industry seems quite boring and not too rewarding, in the short term.
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
Hey Lommer how's it going buddy? You know what you need to do, you need to get your @ss out of class and into an airplane! Flying around in your own two seater must be a real fun hobby if you can aford it, but if you have the urge to fly faster, higher and to places you would never think of going on your own, you owe it to yourself to give commercial flying a shot. You'll always have your degree to fall back on if you don't like flying for a living, and by giving commercial flying a try you'll get to fly with and learn from a bunch of people you'd otherwise never meet. This job boom isn't gonna last forever man, so get yourself a seat soon!
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Northern Skies
- Rank 8
- Posts: 769
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 2:00 pm
1. I think that aerobatics are an underrated form of private aviation. In half an hour of flying, one can gain more satisfaction from the flight than on most 4-5 hour cross-countries. Although the fixed costs of ownership are spread among less flight hours, and maintenance per hour is significantly higher, I believe that the overall value of enjoyment per dollar to the owner may exceed that of a normal aircraft.
A little pitts can be much cheaper to buy than you may think.
Or there's the Citabria. It's not the best at anything, but it does everything!
2. I would shy away from a single seat aircraft. Of course it's fun, but like sex, it's always better when shared with someone else. That's the best part.
3. Big, fast, powerful, avionics, twin, etc., are words that seem to attract everyone. It might sound nice to have that nice shiny baron, but if it costs a fortune to fly, you have to face the fact that you'll rarely fly it. Most people get their enjoyment from the grassroots element of private flying.
4. Projects. Think about how many hours you work, x hours a day, y days a week. How long until you hit 3000 hours? Now spread that among sunday afternoons. Are you really prepared for that kind of commitment? It's not going to be cheaper. You're just taking the "pay later" route. Too bad that the "pay now" guy was enjoying his airplane all along. Generally, there are builders and there are pilots, and it's hard to fit into the gray area in the middle. There is a definite potential for satisfaction in priding yourself on your craftsmanship, and I feel that way too. But the thought of building as a shortcut to flying sets up many for disaster.
So... I'm not an aircraft owner.... yet. I'm a low-er time entry-level float pilot. But every day I think about owning an aircraft. These are the points that I take into consideration, and I would like to have them open for discussion.
A little pitts can be much cheaper to buy than you may think.
Or there's the Citabria. It's not the best at anything, but it does everything!
2. I would shy away from a single seat aircraft. Of course it's fun, but like sex, it's always better when shared with someone else. That's the best part.
3. Big, fast, powerful, avionics, twin, etc., are words that seem to attract everyone. It might sound nice to have that nice shiny baron, but if it costs a fortune to fly, you have to face the fact that you'll rarely fly it. Most people get their enjoyment from the grassroots element of private flying.
4. Projects. Think about how many hours you work, x hours a day, y days a week. How long until you hit 3000 hours? Now spread that among sunday afternoons. Are you really prepared for that kind of commitment? It's not going to be cheaper. You're just taking the "pay later" route. Too bad that the "pay now" guy was enjoying his airplane all along. Generally, there are builders and there are pilots, and it's hard to fit into the gray area in the middle. There is a definite potential for satisfaction in priding yourself on your craftsmanship, and I feel that way too. But the thought of building as a shortcut to flying sets up many for disaster.
So... I'm not an aircraft owner.... yet. I'm a low-er time entry-level float pilot. But every day I think about owning an aircraft. These are the points that I take into consideration, and I would like to have them open for discussion.
Thats the other thing - working pilots 'dream' of aircraft ownership - but have you read what we get paid.... I'm not an aircraft owner.... yet. I'm a low-er time entry-level float pilot. But every day I think about owning an aircraft.
People with 'real' jobs make the real money to actually buy an aircraft, to enjoy it privately.
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Northern Skies
- Rank 8
- Posts: 769
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 2:00 pm
^ Actually, I feel that a late 40's taildragger/puddlejumper would be well within my reach in the next five years, considering my trend in earnings. That includes time to save money, I would rather pay cash than swim in debt. A "sweat equity" project comes to mind sometimes, but I am very cautious about biting off more than I can chew, like I said before.
I'd love to have a super cub with all of the mods to carry me, 40 lbs of camping gear, and enough fuel to bring the load up to gross, but it seems that everyone wants that and the cost is skyrocketing. Plus, a 5gal/h O200 would be healthier for the budget than the 7gph O-320 on the super cub.
So far, the choice of the litter seems to be a Cessna 140A, and one with the patroller tanks would be a real lucky find. An ad for any 120, 140, long-wing piper, luscombe, taylorcraft, etc. always catches my attention.
Then once I'm rich
, it would be time to start building a Culp Special. It might fly by the time i'm 90!
I'd love to have a super cub with all of the mods to carry me, 40 lbs of camping gear, and enough fuel to bring the load up to gross, but it seems that everyone wants that and the cost is skyrocketing. Plus, a 5gal/h O200 would be healthier for the budget than the 7gph O-320 on the super cub.
So far, the choice of the litter seems to be a Cessna 140A, and one with the patroller tanks would be a real lucky find. An ad for any 120, 140, long-wing piper, luscombe, taylorcraft, etc. always catches my attention.
Then once I'm rich
, it would be time to start building a Culp Special. It might fly by the time i'm 90!Thanks for the replys all. I often look through airplane ads with an eye out for cubs and luscombes and I'm often tempted to go into debt tomorrow to make it happen. I'm gonna wait on this decision for a while though and in the mean time save some money to either help buy a plane or help me get through the first few years of a flying career.
