King Air captains wanted, 1500 hours??
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Cat Driver
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Well I'm going to suggest there could be a method to determine the skills or lack thereof with any pilot employed by a company." Can this thread be concluded by saying that two pages of sweeping generalizations have proven nothing? "
This may seem real old fashioned and simplistic to some of you here, but when I was working as chief pilot for various companies I first flew with them before hiring them.
Then I monitored their progress as time went by by flying with them on the line and also by listening to the chatter that is as natural to pilots as breathing.
When upgrade time came I never had a problem with the pilots whom I felt were capable of the upgrade.
Hours and years can and does usually make for better pilots, but some will just never make the cut.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
And that is how it should be done, I couldn't agree more.Quote:
" Can this thread be concluded by saying that two pages of sweeping generalizations have proven nothing? "
Well I'm going to suggest there could be a method to determine the skills or lack thereof with any pilot employed by a company.
This may seem real old fashioned and simplistic to some of you here, but when I was working as chief pilot for various companies I first flew with them before hiring them.
Then I monitored their progress as time went by by flying with them on the line and also by listening to the chatter that is as natural to pilots as breathing.
When upgrade time came I never had a problem with the pilots whom I felt were capable of the upgrade.
Hours and years can and does usually make for better pilots, but some will just never make the cut.
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Cat Driver
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Isn't it amazing how much time is spent with word mastrubation here on Avcanada when the solution to most problems is so simple and have been known since Orville and Wilbur started this industry skibum?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Anonymous1
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For Doc, the reason I go on about this is because you guys act as if your experience will help you avoid an accident. Because you fly a King Air and have 10,000 or 15,000 hours, you want to build yourself up to have more to offer an employer than someone that can do an equal job with far less experience. What if you have an accident tomorrow like forget to put the gear down? And just maybe the 1500 hour KingAir Captain would be so careful and methodical during his flights that he would avoid complacency and have a perfect flight.
I recall the TSB report on the A330 AC check Captain and Captain flying into Frankfurt I believe (the details might be off but I remember reading parts of it). They almost crashed simply for bugging the incorrect takeoff numbers and a few other improper procedures. Yet these two Captains were at the pinnacle of their careers and made errors that would not have been made by brand new 500 hour F/Os on their first sim flight.
My point is that accidents happen no matter how good or careful you perform your flight because we are human and we all make mistakes. Sure, you have more experience than average pilots but that makes you no more unlikely to auger one in tomorrow than me or anyone else. To state that you won't fly with Perimeter or Jazz or that upgrading a 1500 hour pilot may result in an accident is ridiculous.
Pilots have been crashing for 90 odd years now. Do you not think if there was a successful formula for pilot selection that we would have found it by now? Mitigate your losses with insurance (I have life insurance on all my pilots payable to me) and keep your aircraft well maintained so pilots will not require extraordinary skill on their next flight. Hope the next death (and there will be one within the month guaranteed) goes to another pilot and try and retire accident free.
I recall the TSB report on the A330 AC check Captain and Captain flying into Frankfurt I believe (the details might be off but I remember reading parts of it). They almost crashed simply for bugging the incorrect takeoff numbers and a few other improper procedures. Yet these two Captains were at the pinnacle of their careers and made errors that would not have been made by brand new 500 hour F/Os on their first sim flight.
My point is that accidents happen no matter how good or careful you perform your flight because we are human and we all make mistakes. Sure, you have more experience than average pilots but that makes you no more unlikely to auger one in tomorrow than me or anyone else. To state that you won't fly with Perimeter or Jazz or that upgrading a 1500 hour pilot may result in an accident is ridiculous.
Pilots have been crashing for 90 odd years now. Do you not think if there was a successful formula for pilot selection that we would have found it by now? Mitigate your losses with insurance (I have life insurance on all my pilots payable to me) and keep your aircraft well maintained so pilots will not require extraordinary skill on their next flight. Hope the next death (and there will be one within the month guaranteed) goes to another pilot and try and retire accident free.
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Cat Driver
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But some crash more often than others." Pilots have been crashing for 90 odd years now. "
Well maintained aircraft will sure make a difference, but from what we are seeing in this industry lately all or most of the airplanes were perfectly airworthy milliseconds prior to the pilots crashing them." and keep your aircraft well maintained so pilots will not require extraordinary skill on their next flight. "
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
well this is a long read,
I don't understand where all you old school boys are coming from? back in your day was when the lowest time pilots existed, and got cut loose at crazy hours. I just don't think you guys want to pass on the Helm.
I went captain on two multi turbines (different types) by the time i had 1500hrs.
I'm far from knowing all and so is everyone else in this industry, all you can do is share your experiences so everyone else can learn from what happened to you.
i've had minor emergencies (out of the ordinary sh*t happen)in different situations and before i knew it i was dealing with the problem before i could think "what the hell was that" just like we are all trained and studied to do so.
I think if a person is upgraded early (not to their skills but to their hrs) it makes them more aware that i have to study this craft just that much harder to know the same or hopefully more than the higher time guy
i know some higher time pilots that i could fly circles around, and i also know guys with my same time or lower that i wouldn't come near, i think that the only part of industry that should govern by hrs should be the insurance company because we all know we can't change them.
all of you employers out there, you should be able to do your homework enough to know what your getting for the job you need filled. if your going to hire someone that was doing 1500hrs of 172 charters out of YYC to go to Iqaluit and be a king air captain, yeah it probably won't go very well
95% of aircraft out there are easy to fly when everything is working, it's when sh*t goes wrong that you earn your money, but i've been around the industry for a while, not only in the pilot's world, and i know alot of pilots with 6000hrs that haven't had an emergency, so what do they do in their case besides call themselves lucky? do you consider them inexperienced?
just my 2C's
I don't understand where all you old school boys are coming from? back in your day was when the lowest time pilots existed, and got cut loose at crazy hours. I just don't think you guys want to pass on the Helm.
I went captain on two multi turbines (different types) by the time i had 1500hrs.
I'm far from knowing all and so is everyone else in this industry, all you can do is share your experiences so everyone else can learn from what happened to you.
i've had minor emergencies (out of the ordinary sh*t happen)in different situations and before i knew it i was dealing with the problem before i could think "what the hell was that" just like we are all trained and studied to do so.
I think if a person is upgraded early (not to their skills but to their hrs) it makes them more aware that i have to study this craft just that much harder to know the same or hopefully more than the higher time guy
i know some higher time pilots that i could fly circles around, and i also know guys with my same time or lower that i wouldn't come near, i think that the only part of industry that should govern by hrs should be the insurance company because we all know we can't change them.
all of you employers out there, you should be able to do your homework enough to know what your getting for the job you need filled. if your going to hire someone that was doing 1500hrs of 172 charters out of YYC to go to Iqaluit and be a king air captain, yeah it probably won't go very well
95% of aircraft out there are easy to fly when everything is working, it's when sh*t goes wrong that you earn your money, but i've been around the industry for a while, not only in the pilot's world, and i know alot of pilots with 6000hrs that haven't had an emergency, so what do they do in their case besides call themselves lucky? do you consider them inexperienced?
just my 2C's
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Cat Driver
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I could maybe considered old school and I sure was not just turned out with low time and insufficient training on any airplanes I was hired to fly." I don't understand where all you old school boys are coming from? back in your day was when the lowest time pilots existed, and got cut loose at crazy hours. I just don't think you guys want to pass on the Helm. "
For instance in Austin Airways there was a firm rule that you were not even considered for upgrade to Captain on the DC3 or the PBY until you had one thousand hours co-pilot time.
Let me think for a moment....yeh..it was thirty nine years ago when I got my captain check ride on the DC3 and I can assure you there was no shortage of experienced pilots then.
In fact it was just like today, pilots would sodomize a goat on the city hall steps at high noon to get upgraded.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat,
I think you took that wrong
i never said anything about cutting guys loose with a lack of experience, and besides back in the day you could fly 2000hrs a year so upgrade in 6mo not bad!
and not everyone worked for austin airways there were smaller companies out there spitting out low time guys/gals
I think you took that wrong
i never said anything about cutting guys loose with a lack of experience, and besides back in the day you could fly 2000hrs a year so upgrade in 6mo not bad!
and not everyone worked for austin airways there were smaller companies out there spitting out low time guys/gals
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Cat Driver
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You got me there..." i never said anything about cutting guys loose with a lack of experience, and besides back in the day you could fly 2000hrs a year so upgrade in 6mo not bad! "
....we used to fly up to 125 hours a month as co-pilots....sort of human robots.But it sure gave you lots of opportunity to learn.
And considering the conditions we operated in and the lack of airports and reliable nav aids our safety record was astounding.
Yes, you are correct, and their safety record was atrocious....nothing really changes does it?" and not everyone worked for austin airways there were smaller companies out there spitting out low time guys/gals "
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
We did have a couple of fairly high time guys roll them up at Austin's. I remember hauling out most of a Twin Otter in the belly of the Racer. Both guys died. There was a 185 that had the pilot's seat slid back on take off. He didn't make it. That's probably why I get all wound up when I hear about accidents....they really piss me off.
