So, you were too embarrassed to wear a shirt and tie, and it was too hard.
I guess this makes me a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy. You can't rate the quality or the skills of a pilot based on the clothes he(or she) wears!
Kzanol wrote:
Who is going to hire you with 25hr on floats? Also which insurrance company is going to insure you on a floatplane with 25hrs?
Me! I was hired with 25hrs straight onto a 185 and within two months moved onto a 206. Not the biggest machines on the water but not bad for someone with just 25hrs of float time. Must have been the training!
They are both good school, but for me it was an easy choice. Sault because of the MIFR. I am happy with the training I got.
Nice equipment and a tough training syllabus. They wont think twice about failing you out third year.
Also your able to use the Sims as much as you'd like. At some flight schools you're charged 40 bucks an hour to drive some piece junk.
I'd much rather take out an OSAP loan then have to take out a bank loan after graduation to get the MIFR.
But then again if you have money... you should be getting a University degree and doing the flying on the side. my 2cents
I'd put the technical training at the Sault up against any school in Canada any day. The proffs teaching the aviation subjects know thier stuff. The english classes are a joke, the aviation classes are quite good.
mellow_pilot wrote:I'd put the technical training at the Sault up against any school in Canada any day. The proffs teaching the aviation subjects know thier stuff. The english classes are a joke, the aviation classes are quite good.
have a sault college aviation student in my house - one of the students whose life is being made miserable by sessional instructors. how would you like to be 4 weeks to grad and not know if you will be able to complete the program? how is it that the province of ontario funds these programs but people can walk away with 3 years of dedicated time to the aviation program and no diploma or full ratings to show for it. something is very wrong with this system!
The program is unaccepting of failure. Kinda like life. I know it's harsh to say and all, but there's a penchant in our society to blame everyone but ourselves for our misfortune. Kids are told day after day that no matter how much they @#$! up, it's ok, cause they're still special. We're so busy trying to make people feel good about themselves that we do not prepare them for real life. Hell, in many schools, you can't even fail anymore!!!
I had a 16 yr old kid tell me that he was quitting school cause it was too hard, but it's not his fault cause he has a learning disability. I work with his older brother, and I can tell you that the kid's only problem is lazyness and not being held to account for his actions. This is growing more and more common.
So what are we to teach kids? That the world is a forgiving and sunny place where you can do nothing and expect everything?
You're right, the Soo is harsh, but there are a few cushions worked in, a few second chances. Let me tell you, there is no motivation like knowing that 3 years of work is about to go down the shitter cause you're slacking off. You're told all this getting into it. If you're surprised at the when you have used up all your chances, it's no one's fault but your own. Would you rather your tax dollars pay for un-ending remedial training? Would you rather that everyone, regardless of their performance, be paid out until they get it? I know a few people who failed out of the Sault program and went on to become great pilots, most of those I've talked to since say that failing out of the Sault was the wake-up call they needed.
Keep in mind that when you hear from someone while they are going to the school, they are still emersed in the environment. It's very hard to be objective at that point. If you were to have asked me if Soo was the way to go while I was there, I may have been hesitant, but in 20-20 hindsight, I have no problem endorsing the program. This isn't to say that current student's opinions aren't valid, but keep in mind thier point of view.
It may seem harsh and uncaring, but in real life, you can't keep a job if you're not willing to work.
marley wrote:have a sault college aviation student in my house - one of the students whose life is being made miserable by sessional instructors. how would you like to be 4 weeks to grad and not know if you will be able to complete the program? how is it that the province of ontario funds these programs but people can walk away with 3 years of dedicated time to the aviation program and no diploma or full ratings to show for it. something is very wrong with this system!
Marley, that's exactly the way it should be. Would you want that guy to be flying your grandmother around if he can't meet the standard? If he's in third year and in trouble that means it's IFR flying at this point. No one in Canada has nicer sim's than the sault for this level of flying. Your buddy has UNLIMITED sim time. I can't imagine your buddy would be in the crapper if he spent a few hours each night in the sim. If he can't pull it together at this point he's either too lazy to get in the sim or doesn't have the situational awareness to hack IFR. Maybe he look inward to find the real problem.
The soo isn't there to hand out licenses just because you've been there three years. I'm sorry your buddy is having problems at the end. I had a friend that failed out in 3rd year on the IFR too. He was too lazy to get in the sim and practice. He had no one to blame but himself. The only waste was that they didn't get rid of him sooner. The would have saved the tax payers a bit of extra cash if they had. I'm so tired of people being babies about how unfair the soo is. If you want the easier road to go do you licenses privately and stay away from seneca and the soo. Then you can let your wallet make you accountable.
Air Canada has axed a few of their new hires in the sim. Do you think they should be given a free ride there too because they've suffered so long to get there? give your head a shake.
afraid you fellows didn't understand. if you are familiar with the soo, this year the program is having problems even getting the graduating class through their second year flight training. almost half the class is behind by almost a year with just a few weeks from grad. i don't expect anyone to be given a free ride, especially in this industry. safety and knowing your stuff is the utmost. but you should also have a program that provides what is says it will and not waste money keeping people around for 3 years and then not being able to finish their training. if you haven't got the brains or the discipline to be there, you should be drummed out and the earlier the better. don't know where you come up with your assumptions that you have to be lazy or incompetent to be having problems this year at the soo.
Having gone through through the Sault I do feel I can speak on the program. They don't try and string you out there, if you pass one phase you move on to the next. So it's not like they've conspired to pass your friends PPL and CPL and were holding out to really screw him on the IFR phase. If he's having problems the instructors there are more than willing to help him out. If it's additional flight training he needs perhaps he should either rent a plane on the side or use the sim as appropriate. Perhaps your friend just doesn't have the aptitude to make it through? Most do not. My class started with 90 some odd and finished in the low 20's. It's par for the course there and you are told that's the way it's going to be at the info seminars they hold before you start there. My first day of class they said look at the guy on each side of you, chances are if you make it through the other two wont. In my case it was true, the two on my sides both did fail out. Both have have sucessful in their endevors since college though and don't begrude the program.
No one in Canada has nicer sim's than the sault for this level of flying.
Actually Con Colleges is nicer and I have flown both.
Both programs have been around for more than 30 years so I would doubt they will be going away any time soon. Con College will be holding its 35 reunion this fall.
Tank hope I can get to T. Bay and have a few beers with you guys before you head for Yellowknife. Glad to hear the trip to Minnesota worked out well for everyone.
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have you flown the new mechxtronics sims that are worth $750,000 at the soo? The old frasca 242 was nothing special, but the new ones sure are amazing. What does con college have that's better, i'm actually really interested at how you could impove upon the mechtronix without adding full motion. The visuals on the mechxtronics are as good as most class D sims that i've seen.
Yep I know they are. Like I said I have flown them and Con Colleges is better. Not sure what the actual Model is at Con Colleges but it is built around a Baron by Frasca and it is better.
You stated previously that no one in Canada has a better one for flight training than Soo College and I call bullshit, that is all!
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Sure CLguy, you win con college is the best of the best, everything is way better than anywhere else. I've been there too, I've seen the hangar, I've seen the planes. To be honest, i was no more impressed with the setup there than you are with the setup at the soo. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
endless wrote:Sure CLguy, you win con college is the best of the best, everything is way better than anywhere else. I've been there too, I've seen the hangar, I've seen the planes. To be honest, i was no more impressed with the setup there than you are with the setup at the soo. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
There must not be any girls in soo either, cause you seem damn cranky. Grow up.
endless wrote:Sure CLguy, you win con college is the best of the best, everything is way better than anywhere else. I've been there too, I've seen the hangar, I've seen the planes. To be honest, i was no more impressed with the setup there than you are with the setup at the soo. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
There must not be any girls in soo either, cause you seem damn cranky. Grow up.
I'm not trying to bicker here, but for anyone stuck on choosing a school just pick something better suited for you and giver.
Once your start applying for a flying job it doesn't really matter where you got your licenses. What matters is how well you do on your first job, so don't screw that up!
there was a good selection of larger girls in the soo, not sure if you count those. in the summer it wasn't bad though, all the uni and college girls would return and make it worth being there. tbay it it's share of ladies that would like to tie into some sweet clover too though.
Want to fly corp. or airline then go to the sault.
Each program graduates you with the skill set to do those respective jobs... Nothing wrong with either choice, just choose based on what you want to do.
For those that argue you can go get an IFR in 2 weeks after confed, although its true you definatly won't get the same level of knowledge \ practice as you would have in the sault. I have gone to the sault as well as taught IFR at a few private schools.
Sure CLguy, you win con college is the best of the best, everything is way better than anywhere else
Now Endless don't pout! Remember you are supposed to be a highly trained professional Soo College Aviation Student, able to endure what most others can't, apparently. You were also the one that made the statement about the Soo having the best sims, so why not be a man and accept the fact that you were wrong, instead of getting all indignant about it. I really could care a less who has the best, just don't try and bullshit about it.
Remember lets not try and bullshit the troops anymore, so you can't honestly think the old Olgama Hangar that the Soo program operates out of is comparable to the new ACE Hangar in T. Bay. Man give it up already!!
Again I could care a less but lets tell it like it is. The Soo program washes out about 2/3 of their students so that tells me there is either something wrong with the application/selection process or the training department has the wrong people doing the training. I personally know quite a few students who washed out of Soo for various lame reasons, went on to graduate from Confederation and actually have great careers in aviation. Does that make you a superior pilot because you were able to withstand the crap that Soo College passes out? Does this make Condederation an inferior program? I think not!
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Surely you realize that in the sault the students don't attend class at the Algoma hangar. Knowing that, why would it matter how "nice" the building the planes are stored in is? I wasn't trying to bullshit you about the sims. When I was last at confed all they had was that very old and tired frasca 142. Sault and seneca both use the Ascent sims, and they're truly fantastic. How is the baron sim better, you've used them both. You were not in the sault when the guys who you know washed out. Failing out of college and having to go to your second or third choice school would be a massive wakeup call. I'm sure when you met them they were far more motivated!
Speaking of bullshitting, you going on to say that the zlin is outdated and had to have it's life extended is truly pretty underhanded. The Zlin was built as an aerobatic training, and those planes that were used soley as an aerobatic trainer developed spar problems as they aged due to the constant stress on the planes. The sault very rarely uses the areobatic capabilities of the planes and therefore is allowed to only count the aerobatic time logged towards the spar life time. Having flown 70's area 172's and the zlin, there isn't a comparison. No one I've met that's flown the zlin and a 172, whether it be the new ones or the old ones prefers the 172s. How old is the oldest 172 at confed? the ones they have pictures of on the website go back to the late 70's. How old are the 180 series planes or the 206? If you want to talk about aging fleets you must have forgot the mention the far older average fleet age of confeds planes.
