Calling all guys with experience

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:32 am

Neophyte,

You took the words right outta my mouth! This is a great post guys! I think we all need to have these fundamental rules of flying re-ittereated from time to time, i'm actually thinking of pasting thos post into a word doc. so I can read this over now and again. Its funny, this post comes at a time when a recent flight made me seriously ask myself these very questions.

As previously stated here, I think people need to stop thinking about safety on an industry wide basis. Why not think about safety yourself and the context of your own flying? After every flight I do a mental de-brief. How did todays flight (s) go? What was good? What was bad? Why did bad thing(s) happen? And, how can I fix this situation? Sometimes even writing this stuff out helps. Basically, I have my own personal SMS. To me at least, being a " safe and professional " pilot takes work and lots of dedication..its an attitude...and something where the " bar" can never be set too high..always strive for the higest standard..not the lowest.

my .02

Great post!

oldenoughtoknowbetter · Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 am

This is a great thread, things come to mind the more a guy reads....

One other that I make habit of is to record all towers and obstructions on my moving map. It's simply a matter of overflying them on good days and punching them in.

When flying the mins, it adds great peace of mind allowing focus on inflight duties all the time knowing the precise location of things that "bite".

I adopted this practice years ago after reading of the 185 tragedy with guy wires at Temagami.

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:18 am

SLOW DOWN!!
This goes from the paperwork to the walkaround to the roll-out and taxi-in. It always amazes me how some folks think they're actually saving time by rushing around and cutting corners. Slow down and get there faster- you'll be amazed how well this philosophy works.

Fly according to the regs. Bend one that's not a result of catastrauphic mechanical failure, and I guarantee the TSB will find a reg that you broke that contributed to the wreck. You will be found to be at fault, and you probably were. As abrasive as he is, S&J has got this one figured out.

Fly every approach like you're going to miss.

Start every pairing with a joke.

rightseatwonder · Post by **rightseatwonder** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:53 am

not my words but i pass them on any chance I get.

"don't do anything fast around an airplane"
that goes for on the ramp, loading, checklists, walk-arounds, fuel planning etc etc etc

"It's not your company...if you don't like it...go somewhere else"
you will only make yourself miserable not to mention your coworkers and will ruin your reputation by having a poor attitude...find somehere else you'll be happier.

"it's your ass up there"....nobody on the ground has the same investment in safety as you your crew and your pax"

"What would I do if....?" ask yourself this question every 5 minutes. eg. my engine quit...fire...weather went down, depressurized...get that emergency checklist out every flight and review!

"if you make 3 small mistakes in a flight....it should be telling you to do the I.M.S.A.F.E checks" eg. wrong freq. , wrong call sign, finger trouble...are you tired? working too much? stressed? sick? Bored? lazy? Fatigue and complacency are, in particular, insidious...
.

Back from my 172 days: "everytime you adjust the power...check your oil temps and pressures.." every power trim I do..i take a peak...would be nice to notice a trend before the big red light.

my favorite

"you're only as good as the last bad thing you did..."

management sure thinks so. not saying this is a good approach to corporate moral...but consider this when plotting your position in the company and you'll understand the owners mindset a little better. (this is a generalization of course and i have experienced a few exceptions to be sure)

btw great thread KAG ....lots to learn here for everybody not just lowtimers!

cheers,
RSW

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:02 am

W.r.t squall lines and CB's, etc: If you can see through it, you're probably okay to fly through it. If the line looks impenetrable, poke around a bit up and down the line, chances are you'll find a spot you can see through to the sunlight on the other side.

Fly the numbers, especially on non precision, and especially on any full procedure approaches. Fly the appropriate airspeed for all legs of the PT, time accurately, and don't always assume that you'll break out as soon as you reach the MDA.

Plan your flight well, and know what you are doing for every leg before you even leave the ground and put your flight plan in the GPS/FMS before you leave the ground. If there is one less thing you have to worry about in the air, you can focus more on the job at hand.

I can't think of anything else at the moment that hasn't been said already. This is a really good thread, though folks.

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:23 am

For the VFR guys.
Look outside, there isn’t much the dash can tell you that you cant see by looking outside other then oil pressure and temperature. Keep your head up!

planett · Post by **planett** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:45 am

2milefinal:

Fantastic avatar! A classic series from Pinewood Studios.

For the others, agree about the tendency to rush, it's one of the worst things you can do in an airplane, especially in a Medivac. That goes for groundwork and crew van driving too.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:15 pm

Two things: 1) Just about the only thing that can hurt you is the ground - practice go-arounds as if they were the norm and landing was the exception; 2) re-read all of these previous posts!

Couple more - multi-crew? Brief a different emergency every first takeoff of the day when you do your 'thorough' briefing (don't forget the FA is a crew member). Single crew? Do the same thing! Go over what you will do if any of Clunk's things happen.

Always finish the briefing with a request for questions!

Debrief the flight - even if you do it over dinner or in the bar (the best place, IMHO) try and involve all crew and talk it over.

See number 2 above.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:48 am

On the topic of going to quickly.
Co-pilots, dont be afraid to have a quick look at the machine before you get in. Have a look-see if things like the prop ties are off and latches are closed and done up. AND captains if your F.O. stops you from starting an engine with the prop ties on(or something like that) dont get pissed just make sure you buy the beer for the end of the day.

planett
I was wonder-en if anyone would know what that was.

Orsen Madjeans · Post by **Orsen Madjeans** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:38 am

This is the most positive and helpful thread that I have seen yet on this forum. I have learned a lot. We as pilots all have so much in common and so much to share.
I would like to add;

Fly the line like you fly the simulator. No not sweaty palms; I mean don't just follow SOP when you are under the microscope. It will make you safer and also make your checkrides easier.

Slow down, in almost any situation (except maybe collision avoidance) you have time to count to 10 and focus on what the problem is. Like rushing to do an emergency descent when it was only a bleed fault or something simple.

I also hereby resolve, out of respect to all pilots especially new ones (which we all were at one time) to never append the term "WONDER" to somebody's categorical experience level. It is tired, lame condescending and hurtful.
I also will never again use the terms - taildragger, round engine etc. Thin skin eh? Conventional gear and radial engines are our heritage and everything we are comes from that. Honour them.

Duty limits are that- LIMITS, not required working days. If you fly tired you will probably die doing it sooner or later.

oh yeah, my old favorite, if you are not doing something you're probably missing something.

Oh and just to tweak the tiger in the eye, Mr. CAT, how comes you calls them Cats when they is mostly Canso's?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:55 am

" Oh and just to tweak the tiger in the eye, Mr. CAT, how comes you calls them Cats when they is mostly Canso's? "

I'm sure you already know the answer....

But for those who may not know why I don't call PBY's Canso's is because Canso is a Canadian name for the Catalina.

I am no longer a Canadian citizen and I do not work in Canada and if I were to refer to the Catalina as a Canso the people who I work for wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about.

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:45 am

"You can't go wrong if you do it right."

Use your head.

Relax.

Know your aircraft, and know your procedures.

Ron Simpson · Post by **Ron Simpson** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:58 am

An upgrade line indoc guy taught me a very simple philosophy: Always have a reason for doing something. At the end of the day, it is your call, and you have to be ready to explain yourself should you ever have to.

Recall the classic line from the British Airways manuals years ago: "in the event of an inflight emergency the Captain shall first don the Captain's hat"; similar to the military response "first, wind the clock" it pertains to taking your time to get yourself composed before responding to any emergency. It has already been well covered in this thread what emergencies require immediate action and which can wait.

Good topic.

Ron, WJ

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:50 am

"the only thing you do before you fly the aircraft, is don your oxygen mask so that you can fly the aircraft."

Orsen Madjeans · Post by **Orsen Madjeans** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:20 pm

Ah Cat, you must be in Britain as the name Catalina was applied by them to the PBY4,5 and 6... I stand corrected and I should have done my homework BEFORE opening my big mouth. I thought the Catalina was the flying boat and the Canso the amphib, but you are, of course correct, the Canso name was applied by the RCAF.
Either way, you have my respect. cheers

chu me · Post by **chu me** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:39 pm

Finally a post that I don't feel dumber for having read!!!!! All positive ,no negative comments and some very useful advice for the younger and the older pilots on this site. THANKS Kag

frontside_air · Post by **frontside_air** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:18 pm

PDM priority order: your ass > your license > your job

chasing airplanes is a good way to end up knee deep in debt and regret, move when you've found something that will give you:
- better pay
- better location
- better time/sched

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:31 pm

frontside_air wrote: chasing airplanes is a good way to end up knee deep in debt and regret, move when you've found something that will give you:
- better pay
- better location
- better time/sched

This is so true, and it has served me well in my career. You know who first told me that? Duke Elegant.

The first time i drank beers in a bar with him, he said "chase lifestyle, not airplanes....the airplanes will come eventually, but by chasing airplanes, you may never get the lifestyle".

Find something you enjoy today(I know it's easier said than done)....and you will enjoy your career in the long term. If you find jobs where you just put your time in, work stupid hours slaving for a stupid boss, then you will become bitter and cynical and will always feel like the industry owes you something.

frontside_air · Post by **frontside_air** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:34 pm

gah, actually i meant to say "any two" of those. you know the old adage- "you can have it good, you can have it cheap, you can have it fast...pick any two"

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:16 pm

"Fly it until the last peice stops moving!"

Orsen Madjeans wrote:Ah Cat, you must be in Britain as the name Catalina was applied by them to the PBY4,5 and 6... I stand corrected and I should have done my homework BEFORE opening my big mouth. I thought the Catalina was the flying boat and the Canso the amphib, but you are, of course correct, the Canso name was applied by the RCAF.
Either way, you have my respect. cheers

Hmmm I thought it got the name Canso because when Canadians first saw the thing the comment was "that thing surely can't fly!" Of course the answer was "CAN SO".

TG · Post by TG » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:35 am

Not rushing as already been mentioned but this quote below from Robert Bragg, PanAm copilot of the Tenerif collision (between two 747s) worth a reading.

I think it was a simple case as a gentlemen trying to do as good a job as he possibly could and he got in a hurry, it just doesn't pay to get in an extremely big hurry.

oldenoughtoknowbetter · Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:45 am

On the same theme and I think I read it here awhile back....

"it's OK to get in a hurry, and, it's OK to get in an airplane - just DON'T get in both at the same time"

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:59 pm

Great post everyone. Here is my two cent. This focus primarily to the people starting out in 2 crew ops, CRM.

1. Don't let your credentials go to your head: You may have a college diploma or deegre. Those are good tools, but that is what they are, tools. Don't act ike you know it all, because you don't. The day you stop learning is the day you should stop flying. Most of what you will learn will be out there in the real world.

2. Respect you Captains and don't bully them: As an FO, you do have a say in the cockpit but it does not mean you will have it your way. Should your Captain make a decision that you do not agree with, by all means don't be afraid to speak up and state your concerns, give a reason and offer an alternative solution. If the Captain still stands by his or hers decision. Then just simply carry it out and talk about it further on the ground. The cockpit is not the place to argue.

3. Work as a team, not against each other: You are part of a team not a competition. Help each other out. make each other look good. Don't try to out-do one another or try to beat the other pilot to the punch.

4. When you get upgraded....Congrats, Don't take it for granted: Don't let the 4 bars get to you head, It was not too long ago that you would have to sit for 3000 hours to get an upgrade. You've earned it, mainly due to the state of the industry.

5. Be respectfull to your FOs: Treat your FO's the way you liked to be treated when you were an FO. They are part fo the team.

And finally......

5. Sometimes there are exception to the rules. You may fly with asshole Captains that will make dangerous and foolish decisions. Stand up for yourself when that happens, no matter what. The same goes when you become a Captain. You may fly with know it all FOs. You are the Captain and the final decision rests with you. Use your experience, knowledge and isnticts to help you. Don't be afraid to put your FO's in their place . Most important, BE PROFESSIONAL about it. You will be no better than they are if you stoop to their level.

flysafe

B18rules · Post by **B18rules** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:29 pm

I know there are alot of young/new guys on Avcanda reading these threads so I will direct my 2 cents toward them. Remember first off that every body was a new guy at one time and were wearing the same shoes you are. With that being said also remember that no body owes you anything. If you pay attention,show good work ethic along with proving that you can think for yourself you will be just fine. Above all things (float operators especially) do not get outside your personal comfort zone. (for too long that is) when you do your float rating you will learn alot of new things-depending on who does it! When you get the chance to fly with your new boss or his chief pilot you will need to become a sponge and soak up all of the knowledge. At times he will probably put you outside of your comfort zone to see how you will react. With that being said do not let him scare the crap out of you. Do not get pressured to do something you are not comfortable with and do not be afraid to say "maybe this was not the best choice for me" I have seen alot of people fly around scared,on edge and knowing that they really should not be a pilot but stay with for reasons I will never know.

So just remember that you are your own person and just because someone thinks that they can treat you like shit or push you around and make you pay for training THEY CAN'T DO IT!!

To all you new guys just remember you are your own person

Dominic220 · Post by **Dominic220** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:45 pm

RE: "Fuel – you can never have too much (unless your on fire)."

Or if you're a float driver going into/getting out of a really short field... in which case you want as little fuel as possible.