oceanic crossing

4930s · Post by **4930s** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:00 am

if you were going to cross the ocean in an airplane without an IFR certified GPS, what would the procedure be for nav, reporting, and the such? are there special permits required?

its low level, 10 000 feet and below and no INS on board......

Thanks

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:34 am

You can cross the north atlantic VFR, with just a handheld GPS (or two) for nav. Some friends of mine did it in an AN-2 at 80 knots (!!).

The main thing is to bring lots of gas. And lots of money. 'cause if you don't have lots of gas (or you have a slow cruising speed) you may sit and wait someplace VERY expensive, waiting for the right wind.

Oh yeah, another friend of mine used to ferry worn-out single-engine fighters across the north atlantic for refurb. He occasionally gibbers incomprehensibly about "bluie west" and fjords and weird stuff like that.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:49 am

4930s wrote:if you were going to cross the ocean in an airplane without an IFR certified GPS, what would the procedure be for nav, reporting, and the such? are there special permits required?

its low level, 10 000 feet and below and no INS on board......

Thanks

Will you be flying on an IFR or VFR flightplan?

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:40 am

If you're talking about crossing the north atlantic, there are VHF/LF routes from YFB through BGSF through BIRK and onwards to Wick, Scotland. It's a piece of cake navigationally speaking. the weather, however, requires a great deal of respect and conservative fuel planing. OVer the icecap in greenland, you're going to need to be able to get to 12,000(at least), though. otherwise, you'll have to take the south route through Narsarsuaq.

You can get VHF com coverage nearly the entire way with a small gap over greenland where you won't get reception below the flight levels.

if you have any specific q's, just pm me.

tesox · Post by **tesox** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:35 am

Depart St Johns runway 11 , turn left heading 085....sorry couldnt resist.

MAC, that dude that crossed in the 172 last week would be a good guy to ask! Crazy!

WallyPilot, did ED get a hold of you after tying the knot? I havent heard from him yet

fougapilot · Post by **fougapilot** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:03 am

493,

Did it 3 times with Piper Aztecs back in the early 90s. We only had a handheld non-aviation GPS... We had to manualy enter the cordinate for each waypoint on the leg and change batteries before each takeoff. Still, it worked perfectly.

F

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:05 am

All that's really required is lots of gas, and patience! And a pisser could come in handy. Some food. Some water. And the ability to hold a heading. East. Then, when you see land, descend and read a road sign. Any questions?

tumbleweed · Post by **tumbleweed** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:29 am

http://www.nat-pco.org/docs.htm

There is a link for general aviation for the North Atlantic.
Plenty of preplanning is required. CYFB has a limited supply of avgas and it is in drums. Greenlands airports run on bankers hours.

4930s · Post by **4930s** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:17 pm

well im going to be going Gander (cyqx) non stop Shannon (einn) direct.

RatherBeFlying · Post by **RatherBeFlying** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:50 pm

Lots of serious info on: http://www.equipped.com/avsrvtoc.htm

You want a decent raft -- maybe even a survival course. See above.

A North Atlantic ditching in a high-winged a/c will present some serious problems in getting a raft out -- fly a low wing instead.

Wear a dry suit.

Have a portable waterproof EPIRB/ELT secured to your person.

Ask the forecaster for the expected wave heights and sea temperatures and then ask yourself if you're prepared to ditch in that.

Or you can bet your life on the engine. The odds are in your favor that your last thoughts will not be a wish you paid attention to this, but some folks lose the bet.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:24 pm

4930's if you are flying VFR you can use hand held GPS's certified IFR really is of no real importance VFR.

That is a long flight non stop, what type of aircraft will you be using?

Will you have HF on board?

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Hedley wrote:You can cross the north atlantic VFR, with just a handheld GPS (or two) for nav. Some friends of mine did it in an AN-2 at 80 knots (!!).

The main thing is to bring lots of gas. And lots of money. 'cause if you don't have lots of gas (or you have a slow cruising speed) you may sit and wait someplace VERY expensive, waiting for the right wind.

Oh yeah, another friend of mine used to ferry worn-out single-engine fighters across the north atlantic for refurb. He occasionally gibbers incomprehensibly about "bluie west" and fjords and weird stuff like that.

AHhh..just finished re-reading "Fate is the Hunter" for about the hundredth time last night...mentions "bluie west" and some primitive Atlantic crossings...now it's all datalink and auto position reporting. Infinitely safer but something wonderful has been lost too...

My advice would be all of the above but take a Satcom. They're so (relatively) cheap now. Can probably rent/borrow one from someone.

tesox · Post by **tesox** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:23 am

Drop by Gander Centre on Memorial Dr East, there will be someone glad to give a tour (MAC) of the facility and you can see the what goes on behind the scenes from low radar at Gander to Oceanic control to international FSS for your position reporting....the centre number to arrange a tour is 709-651-5228 as listed in the local phone book.

Cheers

oceanic crossing

oceanic crossing

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Some Poor Guys End Up Ditching