This, is the perfect emergency response from ATC, excellent.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:33 pm

A different video of the bird ingestion at EGCC, with Tower comms. Simply excellent professionalism by all.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_ ... -8457.html

Calm steady voice for both pilots and ATC. well handeled.

At the very end of the video its zoomed in and slow motion you can see the "offending" bird.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:56 pm

And this how it should work...

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:19 am

Thats a fantastic video.
I wounder when the airlines are going to start to demand better bird control.

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:27 am

Pan Pan and Mayday Mayday Mayday are getting a lot of attention in training for good reason. Starting a transmission with those words gets everyones attention immediately and is understood throughout the world. If a pilot says a bunch of stuff followed by "we are declaring an emergency" he will likely have to repeat a lot of what he just said. Not so by starting the transmission with "Mayday". The tower is located fairly close to the runway on the south side, they no doubt saw the whole thing happen and declared the emergency themselves long before the crew's first transmission. They were probably clearing traffic out of the way before the PNF even had the fire handle pulled. Brit controllers are the best in the world as far as I'm concerned. No offence to the good folks here in Canada.

The seamlessness of that episode can be summed up in three words. Training...training...training.

Followed immediately by keep it simple.

Something that's rarely considered in training is the real possibility of the departure runway being closed for engine debris. Manchester, Heathrow and Prestwick are the only airfields I can think of in the UK with more than one usable runway for a case like this so he at least didn't have to divert.

Professionally handled by the crew, ATC, CFR and airport operations.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:56 am

cpl_atc wrote:Interesting to hear the "Mayday Thompson XXX" phraseology

Which is exactly what is being "taught" in the current ATC refresher

Not trying to piss on anyone's corn flakes here, but I've noted a few times the almost reluctance here in Canada to use the word "emergency", let alone the words "Pan-Pan" or "Mayday", when things are turning to sh*t. Paperwork allergy?

tesox · Post by **tesox** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:50 am

Ive never heard a mayday or a panpan and yet I have worked several "emergencies"...I think that if I did hear the correct phraseology first, I would be capable of adjusting to it quicker than having 2-4 transmissions just to find out that I am dealing with an emergency, which is obviously very frustrating. You'd think Avianca Flight 52 would be a testament to the need for clarity in these scenarios.

My hats tipped to all involved with this scenario, very professional!

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:55 am

This just proves that you can put a 250 hour wonder in the right seat and actually get the job done... funny that noone is blaming the birdstrike on the same 250 hour wonder...

Training, training, training... you say... I say Standards, standards, standards!

A remarkable example of CRM! Well done!

FN

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:10 am

Flying Nutcracker wrote:Training, training, training... you say... I say Standards, standards, standards

You're right too of course. The first begets the second.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:49 pm

This is common phraseology with Coast Guard radio operators on the left coast when dealing with an emergency. Apart from the simplified handling of the subject vessel, it informs some of the other yahoos who don't bother to listen out before keying the mike that there is an emergency in progress and they should butt out.

Does Manchester have a full-time camera operator? Was this footage from a plane spotter? Very good quality I'd say.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:50 pm

Very much a Brit thing there Cpl. Similar situation to a "Medevac" being used in a callsign.

Once upon a time I probably knew the MATS (UK version of ManOps) reference for it........but now I don't really give a crap about it.

MCA · Post by **MCA** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:46 pm

cool vid... good "handling" of the situation

J31 · Post by **J31** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:41 am

cpl_atc wrote:
2milefinal wrote:Thats a fantastic video.
I wounder when the airlines are going to start to demand better bird control.
There have been many different strategies employed for this, from regular vehicle patrols, to using Border Collies as a test at CYVR, and Falcons (as in the bird, not the bizjet) in England.

Certainly a hazard though. These chaps weren't as lucky as the 757 flight; a USAF E-3 ate birds on takeoff out of Alaska, lost engines #1 & #2. They crashed shortly after takeoff, though not for lack of effort on the crew's part. They were dumping fuel within 15 seconds of recognizing the power loss...

http://www.flightsafety.org/ap/ap_nov96.pdf

PS: For those who aren't regular visitors to flightsafety.org: You should be. A great wealth of information and articles on this site for anyone involved in aviation, from pilots to controllers to AMEs and in-between. Check it out, especially the "Publications" section.

You mean B707

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:40 am

Thats how it should be handled. You have to remain calm as possible. if you are nervous and shakey on the radio the pilot will pick that up and they are really really busy and the last thing the need is some freaked out ats personel making them worse. Thats how they train us for emergencies in school.

I do agree with Jericho that alot of pilots are afraid to declare emergencies. when i was in YTH we would have emergencies on a fairly regualr basis, mostly minor thank goodness. Though the pilots would never declare an emergency, when we asked them what the problem was and they stated "i think my engines gonna fall off but i'm not declaring an emergency" we would hit the crash button anyways and get everyone in position regardless. Never could figure that one out?

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:22 am

It's an argument/discussion/frank exchange of ideas I've heard many times BigFSS. ATS knows the golden 3 in an unusual situation "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate", and at crunch time, the guy in the air is the one going to go splat. But as soon as we get in the loop, as the video, we can do our best to keep every one else out of the way (especially in busy airspace like in the vicinity of Manchester) and give the guys what they need.

Bloody good job by the drivers and ATC.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:48 pm

Just thinking that this video combined with the CRV's would be a great teaching tool.