Borek Bangs up a couple of T/O'S
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flaps 10 props 85
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Borek Bangs up a couple of T/O'S
I heard there was a couple of station 60's at the pole recently. Does anyone know if it was the father, son team recently hired from northern Sask. ?
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Ref Plus 10
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just curious
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Yes, I know if it was the father, son team recently hired from northern Sask. and no, it wasn't. And it was one station 60, not two. Be out of the paint shop in a week and a bit.
Last edited by just curious on Mon May 07, 2007 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lilfssister
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lilfssister
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just curious
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On the Twin Otter Station 60 is the bulkhead that the nose gear is bolted to.
On aircraft, each frame or bulkhead is generally defined by its position relative to a datum, generally the nose of the aircraft or the bulkhead that the nose cone attatches to. So then if you grabbed a tape measure, you can start at that datum and measure aft to each frame and what ever the measurement is is the name of it. I think in some aircraft they may just call the frames by sequential number rather than the inch station. There are also waterlines and buttlines which define horizontal and lateral station numbers. For a wing there will be WS or wingstation numbers and again they are generally measured from a datum, possibly the closing rib at the root of the wing outwards.
I used the term generally here because I can only assume that there are aircraft out there that will differ from what I described here.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
ETTW
On aircraft, each frame or bulkhead is generally defined by its position relative to a datum, generally the nose of the aircraft or the bulkhead that the nose cone attatches to. So then if you grabbed a tape measure, you can start at that datum and measure aft to each frame and what ever the measurement is is the name of it. I think in some aircraft they may just call the frames by sequential number rather than the inch station. There are also waterlines and buttlines which define horizontal and lateral station numbers. For a wing there will be WS or wingstation numbers and again they are generally measured from a datum, possibly the closing rib at the root of the wing outwards.
I used the term generally here because I can only assume that there are aircraft out there that will differ from what I described here.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
ETTW
1. The company pays me to make money for it.
2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
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Capt Pistolla
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just curious
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Probably another 10 working days, including paint.
Something that most people never consider is that while Viking is considering remanufacturing new airframes for the otter, Borek has been re-manufacturing Twin Otters for decades. Aircraft returning from the tropics needing corrosion work, aircraft from Canada doing off-strip, and aircraft wrecks pulled out of African or South American jungles all arrive, and depending on the nature, (total rebuild or station 60's), roll out painted, reweighed and test-flown in 8 months to two weeks.
We make floats, skiis, wheels, and own over 100 STC's for the otter. Many of the enhancements that Viking are considering are things that many of our aircraft have had for several years now.
The company does some interesting work on 5 or six continents every day, but the work would not be possible without the truly amazing crew we have in the hangar.
Something that most people never consider is that while Viking is considering remanufacturing new airframes for the otter, Borek has been re-manufacturing Twin Otters for decades. Aircraft returning from the tropics needing corrosion work, aircraft from Canada doing off-strip, and aircraft wrecks pulled out of African or South American jungles all arrive, and depending on the nature, (total rebuild or station 60's), roll out painted, reweighed and test-flown in 8 months to two weeks.
We make floats, skiis, wheels, and own over 100 STC's for the otter. Many of the enhancements that Viking are considering are things that many of our aircraft have had for several years now.
The company does some interesting work on 5 or six continents every day, but the work would not be possible without the truly amazing crew we have in the hangar.
Thanks JC. We work hard to turn out good products.just curious wrote:Probably another 10 working days, including paint.
Something that most people never consider is that while Viking is considering remanufacturing new airframes for the otter, Borek has been re-manufacturing Twin Otters for decades. Aircraft returning from the tropics needing corrosion work, aircraft from Canada doing off-strip, and aircraft wrecks pulled out of African or South American jungles all arrive, and depending on the nature, (total rebuild or station 60's), roll out painted, reweighed and test-flown in 8 months to two weeks.
We make floats, skiis, wheels, and own over 100 STC's for the otter. Many of the enhancements that Viking are considering are things that many of our aircraft have had for several years now.
The company does some interesting work on 5 or six continents every day, but the work would not be possible without the truly amazing crew we have in the hangar.
Antarctica would have to be the harshest operating environment on the planet, and aircraft damage is, sadly, a reality there. It does not matter whether you operate twotters, hercs, casas, baslers or AN2s.
The fact is, Borek have many twotters down there each summer doing fantastic work and the odd station 60 is always a remote possibility in the rough places they land. To insinuate that the cause is the pilot rather than the environment is nothing short of pathetic and ignorant.
Grow up.
The fact is, Borek have many twotters down there each summer doing fantastic work and the odd station 60 is always a remote possibility in the rough places they land. To insinuate that the cause is the pilot rather than the environment is nothing short of pathetic and ignorant.
Grow up.
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Scuba_Steve
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So, a 'station 60' means the nose wheel fell off? The nose wheel is still there but the a/c fell off?
Is this a weak spot on the TO? With all these clever mods that everyone is doing, why not engineer a fix? Is this a case of providing a failure point to protect the rest of the structure?
This thread might begin to make sense, which is important to me!
Is this a weak spot on the TO? With all these clever mods that everyone is doing, why not engineer a fix? Is this a case of providing a failure point to protect the rest of the structure?
This thread might begin to make sense, which is important to me!
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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just curious
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Good memory Doc,
Every aircraft has it's achilles heel. On the '3 it's the back,on the otter it's the front. I remember an Austin '3 (BJE I think, before it's tragic demise) going into Pikangikum. Brakes were applied to slow before a soft spot on the runway, and the tail started to go way up (the oh sh*t! kind of up.). Someone in the cockpit hauled back on the control column, and the tail came down. And the tail wheel assembly disappeared into the fuselage.
I could see where Austin would have had station 60 damage with the otter going into mining strips like Opapamiskin or Zahave, or new, uncompacted runways like Wunnamin or the newer James Bay strips when first built. At the start, pilots flying into the 70-odd strips that sprang up almost overnight in northern Ontario in the 70's would not have bee prepared for the very real difference between a runway and what they found instead. The initial learning curve would have been steep.
Spring in the Arctic Barrens brings massive stone-hard whaleback drifts to the northwest corner of the zillion tiny lakes, which generally beat the teflon off skis, and pop rivets in wheel-skis. In the Summer, Tundra (a tenuous covering of vegetation over the top of a layer of mixed water, mud, and ice) may permit a hundred landings at the same spot, and then one wheel may have enough energy, or find a weak spot in the surface, and break through, slow from 66 kts to zip in 2 seconds and slowly sink to it's belly in goo. Landing with wheels or skis, the mains and their huge shocks absorb the energy of landing. Occaisionally the station 60 takes the impact.
Given that the otter is operated with CAPs, WIPs, Amphibs, Wheel-skis, straight skis, penetration skis, small wheels, intermediate wheels, and tundra tires (9 different gear configurations); you might have thought that deHavilland might have added a mod to the nose gear shock absorbancy system. The aircraft does, after all, land at a weight of six tons.
To their credit, deHavillland's design engineers couldn't possibly have imagined an airplane going from the South Pole in Feb to the North Pole in April, then spending the spring at Mount Logan, Thailand in the monsoons, or the truly impressive mud of Igloolik, then the ice cap of Greenland, all in the same year.
Each main gear has two six inch urethane shock blocks, giving a foot of compression. Springs on the skis or the volume of tundra tires (the size of DC-3 mains, but at 18 PSI) give another half foot or so. Vastly different from the shopping cart type tires of a Metro. Different job.
The nose gear has a hand-span of oleo. When the oleo is fully compressed, say going over a hummock in the tundra, and a further hummock is encountered, the energy is absorbed by the station 60.
It was because of these vastly different areas of operation that companies like ours, and Austin's, and Bradley had a sign-off for pilots in each of a half dozen landing conditions.
When the aircraft is intended to go "off-strip"(takeoff or landing froma gravel bar, chunk of ice, patch of tundra); both engineers and pilots inspect the station 60 area both in the daily inspection and in the between flight inspection. Loads are arranged so that for landing off-strip, the CofG is towards the rear limit. Loads are strapped down with a near religious enthusiasm. Weights for loads are looked at with cynicism, and often rechecked or rejected. Captains become adept at saying "No, we aren't going there", in a variety of languages. An assessment of the site from maps, top charts, sattelites, and a weather standpoint are done before the landing at a new site. Often savvy pilots will land first at an established destination, land, roll out the fuel they need to get home, and go to the new site with light fuel to reduce landing weights. Distance of the proposed landing area is established from timing, flying the strip at 90 knots. One minute is 1.5 nautical miles, therefore every 6 seconds is .15 (900 feet). A strip may be acceptable for a one-off landing and departure depending on wind, load out, and surface condition. Each spot has a chart, more like the approved company approach plate book, explaining such things as: Tundra Tires Only, No flights in Summer, no Load Out, or restrictions on wind for turbulence, or just plain land right beside the blue drum.
The skill-sets that are required for this type of work are quite specific. There are a handful of people in Yellowknife and Resolute who without question are masters at this type of work. The pioneers of this type of work are just, well, known by their first names: Monty, Harry, Don, Karl, Paul, Ross, Dunc, Russ, Paddy, Rocky. All legends in their day, with scores of proteges flying the globe.
It is dificult occasionally explaining to first officers (who are almost, but not quite ready to upgrade) that these skills are not easily or quickly transferable. Even today, the number of pilot who have done this sort of work at all may not even be into the 100's. The ones who have been to both poles, far less. I marvel at the ones (and I can think of a half dozen who do this every day) who can pull this stuff off routinely. Every small sub-phylum (big word for a bush pilot)of aviation has the type of professional one can aspire to be. I'm glad I get to see ours at work every day of the week.
Every aircraft has it's achilles heel. On the '3 it's the back,on the otter it's the front. I remember an Austin '3 (BJE I think, before it's tragic demise) going into Pikangikum. Brakes were applied to slow before a soft spot on the runway, and the tail started to go way up (the oh sh*t! kind of up.). Someone in the cockpit hauled back on the control column, and the tail came down. And the tail wheel assembly disappeared into the fuselage.
I could see where Austin would have had station 60 damage with the otter going into mining strips like Opapamiskin or Zahave, or new, uncompacted runways like Wunnamin or the newer James Bay strips when first built. At the start, pilots flying into the 70-odd strips that sprang up almost overnight in northern Ontario in the 70's would not have bee prepared for the very real difference between a runway and what they found instead. The initial learning curve would have been steep.
Spring in the Arctic Barrens brings massive stone-hard whaleback drifts to the northwest corner of the zillion tiny lakes, which generally beat the teflon off skis, and pop rivets in wheel-skis. In the Summer, Tundra (a tenuous covering of vegetation over the top of a layer of mixed water, mud, and ice) may permit a hundred landings at the same spot, and then one wheel may have enough energy, or find a weak spot in the surface, and break through, slow from 66 kts to zip in 2 seconds and slowly sink to it's belly in goo. Landing with wheels or skis, the mains and their huge shocks absorb the energy of landing. Occaisionally the station 60 takes the impact.
Given that the otter is operated with CAPs, WIPs, Amphibs, Wheel-skis, straight skis, penetration skis, small wheels, intermediate wheels, and tundra tires (9 different gear configurations); you might have thought that deHavilland might have added a mod to the nose gear shock absorbancy system. The aircraft does, after all, land at a weight of six tons.
To their credit, deHavillland's design engineers couldn't possibly have imagined an airplane going from the South Pole in Feb to the North Pole in April, then spending the spring at Mount Logan, Thailand in the monsoons, or the truly impressive mud of Igloolik, then the ice cap of Greenland, all in the same year.
Each main gear has two six inch urethane shock blocks, giving a foot of compression. Springs on the skis or the volume of tundra tires (the size of DC-3 mains, but at 18 PSI) give another half foot or so. Vastly different from the shopping cart type tires of a Metro. Different job.
The nose gear has a hand-span of oleo. When the oleo is fully compressed, say going over a hummock in the tundra, and a further hummock is encountered, the energy is absorbed by the station 60.
It was because of these vastly different areas of operation that companies like ours, and Austin's, and Bradley had a sign-off for pilots in each of a half dozen landing conditions.
When the aircraft is intended to go "off-strip"(takeoff or landing froma gravel bar, chunk of ice, patch of tundra); both engineers and pilots inspect the station 60 area both in the daily inspection and in the between flight inspection. Loads are arranged so that for landing off-strip, the CofG is towards the rear limit. Loads are strapped down with a near religious enthusiasm. Weights for loads are looked at with cynicism, and often rechecked or rejected. Captains become adept at saying "No, we aren't going there", in a variety of languages. An assessment of the site from maps, top charts, sattelites, and a weather standpoint are done before the landing at a new site. Often savvy pilots will land first at an established destination, land, roll out the fuel they need to get home, and go to the new site with light fuel to reduce landing weights. Distance of the proposed landing area is established from timing, flying the strip at 90 knots. One minute is 1.5 nautical miles, therefore every 6 seconds is .15 (900 feet). A strip may be acceptable for a one-off landing and departure depending on wind, load out, and surface condition. Each spot has a chart, more like the approved company approach plate book, explaining such things as: Tundra Tires Only, No flights in Summer, no Load Out, or restrictions on wind for turbulence, or just plain land right beside the blue drum.
The skill-sets that are required for this type of work are quite specific. There are a handful of people in Yellowknife and Resolute who without question are masters at this type of work. The pioneers of this type of work are just, well, known by their first names: Monty, Harry, Don, Karl, Paul, Ross, Dunc, Russ, Paddy, Rocky. All legends in their day, with scores of proteges flying the globe.
It is dificult occasionally explaining to first officers (who are almost, but not quite ready to upgrade) that these skills are not easily or quickly transferable. Even today, the number of pilot who have done this sort of work at all may not even be into the 100's. The ones who have been to both poles, far less. I marvel at the ones (and I can think of a half dozen who do this every day) who can pull this stuff off routinely. Every small sub-phylum (big word for a bush pilot)of aviation has the type of professional one can aspire to be. I'm glad I get to see ours at work every day of the week.
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Capt Pistolla
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I often wonder JC how Off-strip companies of today are dealing with newbie off strippers.
I had plenty of Twin Otter time with a fair amount of semi prepared strip stuff, it was a steep learning curve going into the die hard work. Thats just about the time I started getting the white hairs...hahaha
I had plenty of Twin Otter time with a fair amount of semi prepared strip stuff, it was a steep learning curve going into the die hard work. Thats just about the time I started getting the white hairs...hahaha
