Top 10 reasons I am no longer at Voyageur Airways.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:21 am

Have you only just noticed the anti-education bias from a significant number of posters on this site?

In my day, typing class was for the retards - that's all it takes to operate a computer keyboard (Me, I wish I wuz done learn the typin as I got waaay more than 2 fingers on each of m handz!) but typing class can't teach you to think (is that a circular argument? Maybe I'll just go lie down).

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:29 pm

Lightsaber wrote: Alright everyone relax. My comment above was in response to altiplano. I didn't like the insinuation and fired back with an appropriate response. Yes I did go to an aviation college and yes the flying was subsidized. I have a hard time understanding why this irks some people so much. I too am a taxpayer and am sure that my tax dollars go to support many government programs. I'm sure glad to live in a country that provides a myriad of opportunity for those interested. In many developing and third world countries you get nothing. Hate it or love it, be grateful we have them. And yes there will be inefficiencies as no system is perfect.

AAAME wrote:Makes me feel good that my Taxes are being used to train the cocky little shit how to fly. The only saving grace is, when they come out of school they know everything so it cuts down on training cost.

"AAAME" In response to your comment I've been around this business for a long time now and I assure you I'm no "cocky little shit". Never was and like I said I pay taxes too! Why so much anger?

I also got a degree in Aviation (though I had to pay the full amount

)
Nothing wrong with those programs...the Problem is that a few of them tend to graduate a lot of REALY cocky self-righteous pious pilots, & those wads give the rest of them/us a bad name.

vortac · Post by **vortac** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:37 am

This company is a complete discrace within the industry.

They have no shame in paying much less than what any average person would call acceptable. This is an insult to pilots, our training and the industry we try and make a living in.

Shame on Voyageur for making a name such as this for itself!

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:16 am

I say again, the shame is on the pilots for working there under those conditions. They can pay whatever they want, and send people wherever they want. Pilots still send resumes and still accept positions there.

YACdirect · Post by **YACdirect** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:52 pm

I didn't have to spend that much. Not with fine taxpayers like yourself subsidizing my flight training. I went to an Aviation College. HAHAHA!!!

BLAHAGHGHAHAAAAHAAGHHORKUGH
(that's me, being sick)

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:35 am

look at the most recent job posting...looks like voyageur may have to start improving things in order to get the planes in the air....

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:47 am

CAL that goes without saying, but people have been saying that for 15 years or more. Who really wants to go to Africa and slug it out for not-so-good wages. Someone here even said that the contract wages weren't that good. I have no idea how that company keeps anyone around. Oh it must be the training bond - NOT!

newfycontrol · Post by **newfycontrol** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:20 am

For what its worth, I was offered a B200 Capt position but even if i wanted too pay the bond(which would be humanly impossible for me to fathom) I can't financially afford the loan anyways.

Unreal....what a way to lose potential experienced candidates....bad credit=no job. Thanks for the insult VAL.

2024 · Post by **2024** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:29 pm

pilots are there own worst enemy! and Voyageur knows that. they will continue to f*#ck pilots as long as they keep bending over and asking for it! so pull up your socks, tuck in your shirt, get a hair cut and get a real job. one that you don't have to buy!

ajet32 · Post by **ajet32** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:15 pm

Pete
Couldn't agree more.Do a little research. A few facts , some will know who I am some not. Africa is not Toronto if you want to work in Toronto or Calgary or Saskatoon then by all means. I've worked or been based in all 3 and some beautiful northern spots Like Wollaston Lake. Africa is not for everyone. The flying is very different the controllers are for the most part useless and the thunderstorms can be magnificent. However the beer is cheap the fun is just that fun and surprisingly enough a lot of guys flying other aircraft for the UN. C130's. B737and B727 and Beech1900 and of course the Russian AC would give their left one to work for a Canadian conpany in Africa. It is a matter of perspective. Oh and yes I'm still here in the Congo DR of having a blast.

MAR67 · Post by **MAR67** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:27 pm

I was contacted about the Dash 7, where are they flying what are the conditions and rotations? Any info appreciated.

ettw · Post by **ettw** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:40 am

First off, I never worked for Voyageur and I'm not passing judgement on them or any other company.

I think the reason companys such as Voyageur continue to march on is because we as pilots let them. We are truely our worst enemies. They are at the bottom of the ladder where AC and Westjet are at the top. I think it goes something like this:

1) Newly minted commercial pilot gets Instructor rating
2) Instructor gets job at say Buttonville. Not getting paid well at all
3) Instructor gets offer at VAL and DOUBLES his paycheque (ignore bond for now)
4) Newly minted VAL FO is VERY happy to have left the circuit job behind
5) VAL FO gets upgrade! Adds 50% to his paycheque!
6) Newly minted VAL Capt is OK with his new position
7) VAL Capt gets job with FO job with JAZZ
8 ) Newly minted JAZZ FO is very happy
9) Newly minted JAZZ FO is making a little less money but has a union
10) JAZZ FO gets union card and now is on his way to the big jets!
11) The end justifies the means

All this to say, we're willing to take these jobs to get the next ones and most of us hope that this short term pain will land us the big one in the end.

If we ALL collectively stood up and said NO, we're not doing bonds, No we're not paying for our uniforms, NO, we're not putting up with low pay....then MAYBE it would get better but as long as companies like VAL are essentially at the bottom of the career ladder, they will be able to get people to do the job. I can't fault them for not paying more...why would they? They have lots of applications no doubt so the formula must work.

Oh and I can only imagine it will get worse once the industry turns around and heads for the shitter (again) as it always has. Remember, we're basically in a pilots market now, we have options and we're still going to VAL et al. Sounds kinda like a bunch of lemmings doesnt it?

Cheers,

ETTW

PS I think the solution is to pay instructors 3 times as much as they are now..that has to push everything else up

anonymity · Post by **anonymity** » Wed May 23, 2007 10:40 am

Anyone at VAL currently, who would like to shed some light on the conditions. By the look of the recent ad they're upping the pay, but what are the working conditions like?
What kind of days are you working overseas?
Are you on call or is it schedueled?
Are the living conditions decent by Canadian standards or 3rd world standards?
Are they decent about you wanting to head home after your rotation, or would they give you greif if they needed you to stay, but you don't want to?

RVR6000 · Post by **RVR6000** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:01 am

ettw wrote: PS I think the solution is to pay instructors 3 times as much as they are now..that has to push everything else up

For that to happen TC must increase its standards for the rating. I say up it to 750 TT.

newfycontrol · Post by **newfycontrol** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:20 am

ETTW,
Honestly.......your post is the EXACT reason why the industry is like this...your right, we have made the industry the way it is. Everyone thinks, " short term pain " but now, its trickled its way all the way up.
Everyone needs to stand there ground a little, but will that happen? Probably not for the reasons you just mentioned.

Good post.

HighBypass · Post by **HighBypass** » Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 pm

ettw wrote: 1) Newly minted commercial pilot gets Instructor rating
2) Instructor gets job at say Buttonville. Not getting paid well at all
3) Instructor gets offer at VAL and DOUBLES his paycheque (ignore bond for now)
4) Newly minted VAL FO is VERY happy to have left the circuit job behind
5) VAL FO gets upgrade! Adds 50% to his paycheque!
6) Newly minted VAL Capt is OK with his new position
7) VAL Capt gets job with FO job with JAZZ
8 ) Newly minted JAZZ FO is very happy
9) Newly minted JAZZ FO is making a little less money but has a union
10) JAZZ FO gets union card and now is on his way to the big jets!
11) The end justifies the means

Thats so typical. Its because of the instructors making $12K/yr that companies can pay $24K/ yr for right seat Fo jobs. Youd never get a rampie who makes $24K/yr (like in YZF) to sit right seat for that amount.

And then Its makes Jazz with its horrible pay scale seem not so bad.

Roger Perdactor

motionsickness69 · Post by **motionsickness69** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:16 pm

Hello VAL I'm about to send my resume 900 tt and 150 multi with 100 mpic+ I WANT TO GO TO AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!!!! what more can i say?

Mightymouse · Post by **Mightymouse** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:01 am

motionsickness69 wrote:Hello VAL I'm about to send my resume 900 tt and 150 multi with 100 mpic+ I WANT TO GO TO AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!!!! what more can i say?

So did you get on and if so where did you end up? I'm guessing Afghanistan.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:01 pm

Mightymouse wrote:
motionsickness69 wrote:Hello VAL I'm about to send my resume 900 tt and 150 multi with 100 mpic+ I WANT TO GO TO AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!!!! what more can i say?
So did you get on and if so where did you end up? I'm guessing Afghanistan.

Afghanistan isn't in Africa

BTW I hear that Iraq is also hiring

ettw · Post by **ettw** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:37 pm

We just lost a guy to VAL on the -7 in Afghanistan.

He was a KA90, 100 and 99 training capt and a great senior base pilot. He says he'll be making more money over there....

He said that he won't be flying into the hotspots, to which I jokingly replied "its all hot, some are hot, some are hotter, and some are hottest".

Good luck to him and if they are paying Capts money that seems reasonable with respect to what they are reputed to pay fo's, I just might send a resume. But I ain't going to YXL or YTS for 45k a year!

Cheers,

ETTW

PS....have fun R and keep in touch!

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:50 pm

ettw wrote:We just lost a guy to VAL on the -7 in Afghanistan. He was a KA90, 100 and 99 training capt and a great senior base pilot. He says he'll be making more money over there....

He said that he won't be flying into the hotspots, to which I jokingly replied "its all hot, some are hot, some are hotter, and some are hottest".

Good luck to him and if they are paying Capts money that seems reasonable with respect to what they are reputed to pay fo's, I just might send a resume. But I ain't going to YXL or YTS for 45k a year!

Cheers,

ETTW

PS....have fun R and keep in touch!

Just currious...what are they paying in Afganastan?

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:43 pm

How the heck would I know?

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:57 am

just curious wrote:How the heck would I know?

hehe sorry just curious forgot about your nic,
I should have said something like this instead.
"just for curiousit's sake what are they....." lol

muldoon · Post by **muldoon** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:44 pm

So how are current conditions there? Anyone?

MZUNGO · Post by **MZUNGO** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:12 am

nothing has changed

Top 10 reasons I am no longer at Voyageur Airways.

responding to Pete the Pilot

Hey Pete!

Classic sceinario

Re: Top 10 reasons I am no longer at Voyageur Airways.

Re: Top 10 reasons I am no longer at Voyageur Airways.