Wasaya pilots treat their ramp guys like sh*t.

Capt. Cool · Post by **Capt. Cool** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:25 pm

I know of 2 guys, and have heard of MANY others that get treated like absolute garbage by other pilots while working the ramp for Wasaya Airways - typically the Red Lake, and Pickle Lake bases. They are labeled as "Wannabees" by the junior pilots, and are continuosly bullied and called names - in some cases untill they quit. What I would like is for some junior Wasaya pilots to step up and educate everyone here on the "Wannabee" theory, and explain your reasoning on what makes a Caravan pilot so much better than a ramp guy - when you all were in their shoes not so long ago. I know for a fact that although the senior guys don't get into it AS MUCH, alot know that it goes on..and they are just as much to blame for not doing anything about it. I hope that this type of bullsh*t is not going on at other companies - everyone is on the same team and in such a great industry, this kind of crap cannot be tollerated. This has been going on at Wasaya for far too long, and it's now time for other pilots to know exactly what goes on there.

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:42 pm

The more you hang around aviation, the more you'll realize the vicious cycle. A fix to the problem may be remembering to be nice to the ramprats when you upgrade into the right seat, and then when the next guy upgrades into your right seat and gives the rampies a hard time, give him hell for it. In the end, it's hard work up here, and sometimes it's hard to work up here... but we do it.

pinecone160 · Post by **pinecone160** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:43 pm

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:43 pm

When I worked there, I tried to treat the ramp rats well. But the industry has changed. It's slave labour. And Wasaya will milk every last drop of self respect they can out of you. Most of these guys can find flying jobs...so, go find a flying job. WHY would anyone with even HALF a brain, work on a ramp?? In YPL?? Get off your arse, and go find a flying job!
Doc's orders!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:36 pm

Let the o'l Cat tell you guys a true story of how to handle bullies and just plain assholes who make others lifes miserable.

We had one of those in a company I worked for.

One evening he came back to the staff house pissed after his night in the bar and the hall light bulb had been removed.

Someone kicked the living shit out of him and he had to be taken to the hospital for some repair work not to mention losing some work time.

After that little episode he was real nice to everyone.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:46 pm

hey Cat
im betten your not the guy that ended up in the hospital

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:51 pm

hey Cat
im betten your not the guy that ended up in the hospital

Nope, twas not I.

And I was not part of the re-educating crew as I had left to work for another company when that happened.

Maybe there needs to be some re-educating done somewhere else?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:10 pm

Whilest that dost sound a trifle extreme, it would indeed work. However, methinks, with the industry in the state it is today, one would be better advised to just move on down the road. And take ALL the rampies with you. That'd really get the point across? The mighty "Editted (JC)" would have to actually hire staff for the ramps....and PAY them.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:32 pm

I find the pilots who belittle the most, yell the most, and get the most uptight, are usually the ones with a self confidence issue.
I would not stand for that kind of treatment, nor should anyone else on here.
Don't be afraid to stand your ground and fire back when the slagging starts. If ya can't take it, don't dish it.

To the Wasaya pilots:
YPL is a shit hole to start with. Why make it that much worse? You guys should be having fun and making the best of it, not acting like grade schoolers.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:00 pm

To the Wasaya pilots:
YPL is a shit hole to start with. Why make it that much worse? You guys should be having fun and making the best of it, not acting like grade schoolers.

Maybe management should put those pilots to work on the ramp and put the rampies they are giving a hard time in the airplanes?

memorex · Post by **memorex** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:13 pm

I know of 2 guys, and have heard of MANY others that whine and complain on avcanada. They are labeled as "inspirational" by others on this forum, and are continuously complaining and whining about this industry. What they would like is for somebody to please find them a job where they can still live in their moms basement cause they dont want to leave home and work for it like everyone else had to that is flying right no. They think for a fact that senior guys owe them everything and should hand them a job. They hope that this type of bullsh*t is not going on in other industries. This has been going on at AVCANADA for far too long, and it's now time for other pilots to know exactly what goes on there.

I used to look at this forum and now I will never return its just gotten stupid. All it is is people whining and complaining... blah blah so and so called me a name... blah blah I cant get a job... blah blah I make no money... come on guys this site casts a dark shadow over the whole industry, it is the biggest collection of whiners and complainers that could possibly exist. If you dont like being a pilot or this industry then beat it and do something else... otherwise suck it up and take it on the chin. you dont think other industrys have it bad? give me a break! think about it what do we do for a living we have the easiest job in the world... you know what some people have to wipe butts for a living... now thats a crappy job! so appriciate what we have and keep the whining to yourself... jeez this will be my first and last post it had to be said and now I will never come back here again. Later

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:30 pm

Gee, we're sure gonna miss you!

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:31 pm

WTF are you going on about?

captain_parsons · Post by **captain_parsons** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:33 pm

As one of Wasaya's caravan pilots, I'm a little aggravated by the accusation that it's caravan pilots bullying and harrassing rampies. I have been with the company for a couple of years and started on the ramp in Pickle and now fly the caravan in Pickle lake. Pickle Lake is indeed a sh*thole, but from what I can tell, all the people on the ground at this base seem to get along quite well. I can only speak for myself, but I don't treat any rampie unfairly or harrass them. And, I haven't personally witnessed anything from any of the other Caravan pilots either. I'm not saying it isn't happening, but if it is, I haven't seen it.

If there are indeed people who feel like they're being harrassed, then they should first bring it up with the base manager. If it's not resolved, then bring it up with the our chief pilot who I'm sure would be more than happy to help. And, in the event that doesn't satisfy, there are lots of other facilities to resolve these kind of workplace issues (and I'm fairly sure that Avcanada is probably not one of them). Management is there for a reason, so make them do their jobs...and if you're not happy with your job or place of employment, then there are lots of other companies out there. It's truly becoming a pilots market out there, so don't think you have to stick it out at a company just because they gave you a job without going for an interview. Anyhow, that's my two cents.

Capt. Cool · Post by **Capt. Cool** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:45 pm

memorex wrote: I used to look at this forum and now I will never return its just gotten stupid. All it is is people whining and complaining... blah blah so and so called me a name... blah blah I cant get a job... blah blah I make no money... come on guys this site casts a dark shadow over the whole industry, it is the biggest collection of whiners and complainers that could possibly exist. If you dont like being a pilot or this industry then beat it and do something else... otherwise suck it up and take it on the chin. you dont think other industrys have it bad? give me a break! think about it what do we do for a living we have the easiest job in the world... you know what some people have to wipe butts for a living... now thats a crappy job! so appriciate what we have and keep the whining to yourself... jeez this will be my first and last post it had to be said and now I will never come back here again. Later

You sir are a piece of sh*t! Clearly you are one of the pricks that work for that company and are a perfect example of why this industry has gotten the way it has! What part of this post had to do with not liking being a pilot in this industry? Somehow you managed to rewrite the whole post with it magically going right through that large brain you have. What you just said in your post is that there is nothing wrong with treating junior guys that way and it seems as though you support it! ..as well as insulting just about everyone who spends time posting in these forums... Glad your taking a hike.. get the f*ck out of the industry while your at it... we don't need or want guys like you in it.... There is no whining going on here.. just a guy that left civillian aviation who is still trying to make a difference.

memorex · Post by **memorex** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:50 pm

I agree that that behavior should not be going on but have you seen it first hand? I dont work there but I know many that do and I have never heard any complaints

3=47 · Post by **3=47** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:58 pm

wow, memorex is so right!

shut the site down, avcanada is finnished,

now everyone quit whineing and just do your jobs!

what ever dumbass

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:09 pm

memorex wrote:I agree that that behavior should not be going on but have you seen it first hand? I dont work there but I know many that do and I have never heard any complaints

You're a liar.

memorex wrote:I used to look at this forum and now I will never return its just gotten stupid.

fingersmac · Post by **fingersmac** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:12 pm

Interesting thread to read 24 hours before I move up to Pickle Lake to work for said company! Hahah.

I'm just surprised that someone that doesn't even work there feels compelled to start an entire thread based on hearsay.

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:26 pm

Too bad some junior punks are actin like that, one of those days they'll be educated as cat says.

I didnt work the ramp before I went flying, but my theory is just to treat everyone the way you want to be treated yourself no matter who you are and I do genuinly show them I appreciate the work they do, specially when it's -30 with 40kts winds... Worked fine for me so far, I'm always leaving on schedule even if i taxi to the gate late.

Capt. Cool · Post by **Capt. Cool** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:29 pm

fingersmac wrote:Interesting thread to read 24 hours before I move up to Pickle Lake to work for said company! Hahah.

I'm just surprised that someone that doesn't even work there feels compelled to start an entire thread based on hearsay.

Wrong. A good friend and roommate of mine last summer would come home every night and tell me the things that went on..he eventually got fed up and quit.... and is doing much better for himself now I may add..the guys there said "its just the way it is". I thought they had been dealt with and things would have changed, until I started hearing about it happening to other guys... then just last week I heard about the exact same thing happening to a guy at a different base and I got fed up...hence the post... When it happens to a good friend and you see what he dealt with, it becomes more of a sensitive subject..I wish you luck fingersmac as you came from the same place as I.. but if this happens to you.. DO NOT put up with it.. there are many jobs around right now and nobody needs that type of treatment.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:41 pm

When I was flying the water bombers I finally got to fly what was known as a " Lone Wolf " airplane that did not have a permanent base but went to what ever part of the country that had fires burning.

We carried a selection of escape juice in the nose of the airplane and the first thing we did after parking at a new airport was give a case of beer or a bottle of rye to the engineers and ramp crew at the new base.

We never ever lacked for service.

For my crew the FO and engineer I gave them special party nights with special entertainment.

I can't recall many crew members who resented me for the way I treated them. And all my FO's gladly did most of the flying without ever realizing they were flying my legs.

You see long before CRM became a buzz word the o'le Cat had it aced.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:47 pm

WTF is wrong with these ramp guys?

Jesus when I worked the ramp for the big airlines I had no problem telling a pilot where to go if he was acting like a goof.

A pilot deserves no more respect than the ticketing agent IMO. Everyone's a tool to be used by an airline, take any one of them out, nobody works.

Very rarely did I see pilots at the "Big Jet" level, being anything but professional to ramp workers, and when they did act like a clown, I made sure I let them know about it, as professionally as I could... those guys are just trying to make a living just like you, and are working 10x as hard to do it.

When you go through pilot training you look to the guys with the CPL as gods, and as you move up, the next level above you is a god.

Now after my almost 10 years in aviation, and having done every job except being paid for flying a twin, and I mean every job in between that the industry has to offer pretty much, I respect pilots of every level, but I sure as hell don't think they deserve to be treated like gods.

Mind you IMO, in the last 5 years anyway since 9/11 I've seen a lot of the God complex leave some of the higher time pilots, maybe it's because they came from better roots or went through harder times, but I find it rare to meet a pilot on the ramp or otherwise who is full of himself, most guys/gals are quite respectful.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:51 pm

A pilot deserves no more respect than the ticketing agent IMO.

Exactly, and one only gets the respect they earn by how they treat others.

Cap'n P8 · Post by **Cap'n P8** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:14 pm

I've worked at Wasaya for just under two years, and have never personally heard any serious complaints from the ground people, not to say it doesn't happen.

Perhaps you could give some specific examples of your grievances, that we might address them.