Another floatplane accident/rescue?

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twotter
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Post by twotter »

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snoopy
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Post by snoopy »

Ok, if we're done with the pissing contest....

I'm curious. The accident happened on May 9, then PT6-114A reports:

"here is some news

The plane is back right side up and the oil and fuel have all been draned out. New stuff has been put in. There is no damage to the plane. It is set to been flown out today (friday)"


Zero reports it was flown out on May 11 "The Beaver was flown out yesterday and is now sitting at Sealand in Campbell River. Doesn't look any worse for wear."

So, from Part VI - General Operating and Flight Rules

Canadian Aviation Regulations 2006-2

Standard 625 Appendix G - Inspection after Abnormal Occurrences

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... /a625g.htm
...
(12) Immersion in Water

The following requirements are based on immersion in non-contaminated water. It is the responsibility of the AME performing the inspection to determine if any contaminating elements exist, and extend the scope of the inspection as necessary. Examples of contaminants which may have to be taken into consideration include alkali, sulphur, salt, etc. Other important considerations are the length of time the aircraft has been submerged, especially if contaminants exist, and the temperature of the water. If temperatures are below freezing, tubing in the fuselage structure is liable to have been distorted or split through the formation of ice.

The general inspection requirements for aircraft which have been immersed in water are listed below. To them shall be added any additional requirements specified by the manufacturer, and additional inspections for any damage incurred during the entry into the water or during the recovery operation. The inspections listed below are considered the absolute minimum required following short term immersion in uncontaminated water. If the aircraft has been immersed for a period in excess of 30 days (or 24 hrs. in the case of salt water), additional inspections shall be necessary.

(a) Aircraft Structure

(i) Examine all structure for damage (i.e. skin wrinkles, warping, bulges or splits in tubular structures).

(ii) Remove or open all inspection panels to allow complete draining and drying. Cabin lining, flooring and side panels shall be opened sufficiently to allow drying and inspection. On fabric covered components, cut sufficient circular holes to allow draining, drying and inspection of the structure. Special attention shall be paid to glued joints on wooden structures.

(iii) Check tubular structure for trapped water. Examine tape wrappings on tubular frames for thorough drying.

(iv) Lubricate with grease where fittings are provided, and all other moving parts with light engine oil.

(v) Drain fuel tanks and lines and flush tanks with a suitable rapidly evaporating solvent.

Information Note:

Maintenance personnel should ensure that the solvents used for flushing have no detrimental effect on the flexible hose construction material.

(b) Instruments

(i) Remove all instruments, open sufficiently to allow drying. Lubricate and test. All primary flight instruments shall be forwarded to an approved overhaul organization for recertification.

(ii) Disconnect all lines and drain thoroughly, paying particular attention to low spots where water can be trapped.

(c) Electrical and Avionics Equipment

(i) Loosen all wire bundles and shielded cables sufficiently to allow complete drying.

(ii) Check all connections and remove corrosion.

(iii) Clean switches (open type), solenoids, reverse current relays and voltage regulators (except carbon pile type) with a suitable rapidly evaporating solvent. Carbon pile type voltage regulators shall be returned to an approved overhaul facility.

(iv) Replace toggle switches and circuit breakers.

(v) Clean and test all radio units and accessories.

(d) Engines (if immersed while cold)

(i) Examine engine and propeller for damage. Bent propeller blades shall necessitate the examination of the engine for propeller strike damage.

(ii) Drain oil from sumps, oil cooler and tank.

(iii) Drain water from cylinders by rotating crankshaft, with spark plugs removed and lower intake pipes loosened.

(iv) Drain carburettor, flush with fuel or alcohol, and then flush with very light oil. Injection type carburettors shall be forwarded to an overhaul agency for dismantling, inspection and testing.

(v) Remove magnetos, drain, oven dry, relubricate and reinstall.

(vi) Remove all accessories, drain, dry, relubricate and reinstall.

(vii) Clean spark plugs and ignition harness, dry and test.

(viii) Drain and replenish oil tank with oil of the correct grade.

(ix) Start engines, if oil pressure is normal, continue running until operating temperatures are obtained (cylinder head and oil).

(x) Stop engines and check oil screens.

(xi) Carry out complete power run and ensure that all applicable specifications are met, and that all accessories are operating normally.

(e) Additional Checks if Engine Immersed while Hot

(i) Piston Engines

Due to the thermal shock encountered with the sudden cooling of the cylinder assemblies, all cylinders shall be removed and dismantled; cylinders, cylinder heads, pistons, valves, valve seats and valve springs shall be inspected for distortion and cracks.

(ii) Turbine Engines

Turbine engines shall be completely dismantled for internal inspection by an approved turbine engine overhaul organization.

(f) Additional Checks if Engine Immersed while Running

(i) Piston Engines

Due to the danger of forming a hydraulic lock which can result from the entry of water into the cylinders, the engine shall be completely dismantled for internal inspection by an approved overhaul organization.

(ii) Turbine Engines

Turbine engines shall be completely dismantled for internal inspection by an approved overhaul organization.

(g) Propellers

Cleaned and re-lubricated. Propellers with control domes or cylinders which are removable in the field shall be opened and checked internally.

So is it at all possible that all these items were complied with in two days????!!!! And Transport Canada is ok with this?
Am I missing something here?
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Post by CID »

Thank you twotter for that information. The ULB is an excellent example of one type of ULD. More specifically, the UALB which uses acoustic (sonar) means of operation.

I read the content of the excellent links you provided and I learned a great deal.

It's quite interesting to explore the plethora of terms that are used in aviation to describe various systems. We are often presented with terms we aren't familiar with but a little reseach on the interne usually clears up any discrepency.

It's simply marvelous to be living in the age of information isn't it?

So what DHC types have you flown? I assume that "most of them" means at least 5 types. Awesome!

Snoopy,

I don't think anyone has stated that the airplane has been returned to service. At this point maybe a ferry flight is possible to get back to a facility where those inspections can be carried out before the normal C of A is back in force.

I'm just guessing here but either way, it's all just speculation.
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Post by PT6-114A »

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Post by twotter »

Hey Pt6, I think there was also some assumption that the airplane was in salt water by some of the boldness in the long winded statement.

Talked to your Dad the other day and he seems to be doing just fine.. Glad to hear it..

Is it thawing out up there yet??

Cheers..

ps, for CID.. 6...
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Post by yak driver »

Holy Crap! Glad everyone is safe and sound! Well done to the boys out of Comox.
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Post by Over the Horn »

Hey PT6-114a good to see your old mans ok!

Its funny how all the so called experts jump to conclusions on this site without knowing all the facts it just goes to show that you can't believe most of the crap you read on here!
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Post by Rowdy »

Everyones always ready to armchair quarterback.

Again.. glad everyone including the fine machine are ok.
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Post by carholme »

Ladies/Gentlemen;

What I don't understand regardless of privatate aircraft/commercial aircraft, salt water or freshwater, if the a/c was on a takeoff roll, the engine was running and if the a/c submerged, the engine was submerged hot. Is this what happened? If some of you have direct knowledge, why don't you post what did happen and we will all know?

Regards

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Post by confused »

Not a thing with what went on after the accident,as long as a ferry permit was in effect.I do think that the floats should have been looked at a little closer and maybe a gear swing or two.
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Post by Widow »

You really need to be careful what you say.
they pulled the floats (amphib) out of the weeds where they have been for the last 2 years and put them on. Ok no prob.
OK. So seems like they weren't exactly "no prob". Someone forgot some very important water immersion tests before using them. Good thing they weren't "paying" pax.
"The Beaver was flown out yesterday and is now sitting at Sealand in Campbell River. Doesn't look any worse for wear."
Was the plane not immersed in salt water for 24 hours? Because if so, all those tests Snoopy mentions could hardly have been performed before being "flown out" to Sealand. Doesn't seem like a ferry permit should have been permissible considering the danger of "thermal shock encountered with the sudden cooling of the cylinder assemblies"??? Anybody with R-985 experience?

Martini Aviation Ltd. doesn't exactly sound like a private person. So what kind of pax were being transported with gear?

Of course, we gotta hope everyone is talking about the same incident, because there was a C-150 that flipped near Clearwater, BC on the 12th, as well as the DHC-2 that flipped near Crawfish Bay, BC on the 9th.
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Post by carholme »

PT6-114A;

Thank you for responding with the info. I find it hard to believe that a ferry permit was issued for a hot submerged engine. I know TC has a mind of their own at times but under no circumstance that I am aware of can that a/c be flown after an incident like this. I am not trying to tell anybody what to do but I can sure as hell tell you what I wouldn't be doing and that is flying that a/c until the engine was subject to the required inspections.

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Post by xsbank »

Last time I was in there, Crawfish Lake was fresh water...

Another neat thing about amphibs not related to anything - lots of people think that when you land on the ground the water just runs out of the floats. Not true. You still need to pump.

This sounds like a stupid accident to me - who signed out the plane with the new/old floats? Maybe the pilot should have pumped them out before he tried to take off, you know, 'new' floats - "gee, I wonder if they leak?"

Fire away.
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Post by Rowdy »

Oy! Could someone PM me with the names.. thought I recognized it from ft. langley.

Trivia for those in the know.. Why other than water do you pump out the amphib floats when you're on land??
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Post by bigsky »

Rowdy wrote: Trivia for those in the know.. Why other than water do you pump out the amphib floats when you're on land??
My answer is..

Besides pumping out residual water, one is looking for tell tale signs of a possible hydraulic leak from the actuators. This usually appears as a red fluid from any of the compartments that contain the actuators.
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Post by Widow »

This thread was started in relation to the accident on May 9th at Crawfish Bay (not Lake) which was a DHC-2 with a pilot and two pax. I think these were floats and not amphibs (?) as discussed by PT6.

PT6 is talking about the accident near Clearwater on May 12th (or at least I assume so, since he/she says there was only the pilot on board). The other posts came in before that incident though, so ...

Let's try to clear up the confusion ...
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Post by carholme »

PT6-114A

Sir;

I would suggest very strongly that you get your ducks in a row. If I am reading between the lines, I have to assume that there wasn't a Ferry Permit issued. If what you are saying is that the ferry situation is up to the pilot, you had both better get familiar with the rules. Good luck!

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Post by Widow »

CADORS Number: 2007P0767
Occurrence Date: 2007/05/09
Samson, Donna
Date: 2007/05/10
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: General Aviation
Narrative: RCC called Kamloops Flight Information Centre at 0529Z requesting a Comm search for a privately-registered Martini Aviation Ltd Dehavilland DHC2, VFR Fort Langley (CAS4) - Gold River (CAU6) - Fort Langley (CAS4). RCC advised the aircraft was located at Crawfish Bay (49'40.64N 126'49.6W) at 0951Z. A pontoon was damaged on takeoff and the aircraft was overturned. Three souls on board swam to shore. The circumstances are unknown.

User Name: Samson, Donna
Date: 2007/05/11
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: General Aviation
Narrative: UPDATE / Add Info from TSB: A07P0136: The Martini Aviation DHC-2 Mk. 1 amphibious Beaver was taxiing for take-off at Crawfish Bay for a flight to Fort Langley when the front of the floats dug in and the aircraft flipped over and sank upside down in deep water. The 3 occupants evacuated the aircraft and swam to shore. They were uninjured. The ELT activated and the survivors were located by Search and Rescue several hours later.
CADORS Number: 2007P0790
Occurrence Date: 2007/05/12
User Name: Hughes, Neil
Date: 2007/05/14
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: General Aviation
Narrative: Pilot of a C-150, called Kamloops FIC to report he had flipped his aircraft earlier in the day. Pilot indicated ELT may have been activated. RCC/TSB advised.
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Post by Rowdy »

bigsky wrote:
Rowdy wrote: Trivia for those in the know.. Why other than water do you pump out the amphib floats when you're on land??
My answer is..

Besides pumping out residual water, one is looking for tell tale signs of a possible hydraulic leak from the actuators. This usually appears as a red fluid from any of the compartments that contain the actuators.
DING DING DING! Good call!

It's also a good way to remember to replace missing float plugs. :wink:
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Post by xsbank »

"The JRCC tasked the helicopter to Crawfish Lake, on Nootka Island, to begin the search after receiving reports from the Nootka lighthouse keeper that a plane fitting that description had been seen earlier the previous day in the vicinity."

"The Beaver was spotted at the west end of the lake and shortly after a fire seen on the shoreline."

So is Crawfish still fresh water? Was the a/c actually in Crawfish? Is this the a/c that was on amphibs? Why do I really give an R. A?
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Post by StudentPilot »

Widow wrote:PT6 is talking about the accident near Clearwater on May 12th (or at least I assume so, since he/she says there was only the pilot on board). The other posts came in before that incident though, so ...
PT6 is talking about the Beaver accident, the mention of only a pilot on board was for the ferry flight out, not the flight when the plane flipped.

If you put the coordinates from the CADORS into Google Earth, it is more or less at the west end of a lake (presumably Crawfish), so I'd guess it's freshwater.
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Post by Widow »

Aha! Good work detectives!

But does saltwater/freshwater make a difference to the shock to the piston engine cylinders from being suddenly cooled? The plane was running when it suddenly flipped, right?
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