Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum and there seems to be some wise people on here so I am looking for opinions.
My background is the usual: commercial multi IFR with no significant additional hours and a university degree in basket weaving.
I have always been interested in the military for more reasons then to just build time (ie serve my country) but to be honest my long term goal is fly for Air Canada. I am really confused on what to do. It seems like the aviation business is doing well right now and I would hate to be committed to a single organization where I would not able to jump ship to bigger and better when I could. At the same time I have always been fascinated with the military and flying some cool planes.
So I am looking for opinions on the military and civie aviation and what the best possible career path will be for me. I really don't want to work the ramp and I feel that with a commercial license I am a qualified pilot and thus should be flying!
Military or Fly Civie
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want2flyplanz
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Well for military service as an airman, ask yourself the first very important question. Do you wear glasses, contacts, or have laser eye (ie: is your vision NOT 20/20 uncorrected). If yes, well, no contest.
If not, sure go for the military. Although would have been better to do that before you got PPL/CPL/Multi/IFR and all that stuff. They would have paid for what you need. But at the same time, the military does grand credits for CPL hours last I heard.
Just because you do get into the Air Force though, doesnt mean you'll be flying CF-18s. You'll get one of three, fighters, transports, or helicopters. That'll depend on your vision, flying capabilities, and body stamina. ie: if you puke on the rollercoaster, they wont let you near any fighter.
As for working for Air Canada... Why the heck would you want to go do that?
If not, sure go for the military. Although would have been better to do that before you got PPL/CPL/Multi/IFR and all that stuff. They would have paid for what you need. But at the same time, the military does grand credits for CPL hours last I heard.
Just because you do get into the Air Force though, doesnt mean you'll be flying CF-18s. You'll get one of three, fighters, transports, or helicopters. That'll depend on your vision, flying capabilities, and body stamina. ie: if you puke on the rollercoaster, they wont let you near any fighter.
As for working for Air Canada... Why the heck would you want to go do that?
So you want to serve your country, but only until you have enough time to go to AC? The military requires a much higher level of committment than that so I would not bother with that route. When considering the military, you are offering your life. The military is active and you may be called to battle. Are you committed enough for that? If not, go civy.
It once was that the military were men ready to bear arms and die for their country and their flag. Sadly, t'is no longer like that. A lot of people dont seem to be ready for that yet they are in the military anyways. Mostly, because the military is an easy job to get into, and a hard one to get fired from.
If your dream is to fly for Air Canada with out a doubt go civy. First off there are numerous places for you to not make it in the mil. Heard a stat out of every 10 people that walk through a recruiting centers door wanting to be a pilot 1 will become operational. No idea if that s accurate.
Right now would be the perfect time if you want to become a fighter pilot, they are in need, however if you walked into your recruiting center today you would be looking at around 3.5 years before you would finish Moosejaw and be streamed that way. That being said right now is not the time if you want to fly multis. For everyone multi seat there are two rotary seats.
You would have to be in anywhere from 10-12 years. In civy you could probably earn enough hours to be looked at by Air Canada. You would also likely have more than double the hrs of the average mil pilot.
All that being said I myself love the life, but it certainly is not for everyone. I have a lot of civy pilot friends and i would say the level of satisfaction would be comparable. In civy world you certainly arent going from 200hrs to flying a 4 engine, 565000 lbs MTOW AC.
It really is a personal choice. By the mil is not the fast lane to Air CAnada to be certain. Any questions feel free to holla back.
OUT
Right now would be the perfect time if you want to become a fighter pilot, they are in need, however if you walked into your recruiting center today you would be looking at around 3.5 years before you would finish Moosejaw and be streamed that way. That being said right now is not the time if you want to fly multis. For everyone multi seat there are two rotary seats.
You would have to be in anywhere from 10-12 years. In civy you could probably earn enough hours to be looked at by Air Canada. You would also likely have more than double the hrs of the average mil pilot.
All that being said I myself love the life, but it certainly is not for everyone. I have a lot of civy pilot friends and i would say the level of satisfaction would be comparable. In civy world you certainly arent going from 200hrs to flying a 4 engine, 565000 lbs MTOW AC.
It really is a personal choice. By the mil is not the fast lane to Air CAnada to be certain. Any questions feel free to holla back.
OUT
I agree with this. Except the 1 in 10 thing needs clarity. While that may be right, I would guesstimate around 2/3-3/4 of those enrolled get operational since there's so many numpty's that come through recruiting.Pyleosnow wrote:If your dream is to fly for Air Canada with out a doubt go civy. First off there are numerous places for you to not make it in the mil. Heard a stat out of every 10 people that walk through a recruiting centers door wanting to be a pilot 1 will become operational. No idea if that s accurate.
Right now would be the perfect time if you want to become a fighter pilot, they are in need, however if you walked into your recruiting center today you would be looking at around 3.5 years before you would finish Moosejaw and be streamed that way. That being said right now is not the time if you want to fly multis. For everyone multi seat there are two rotary seats.
You would have to be in anywhere from 10-12 years. In civy you could probably earn enough hours to be looked at by Air Canada. You would also likely have more than double the hrs of the average mil pilot.
All that being said I myself love the life, but it certainly is not for everyone. I have a lot of civy pilot friends and i would say the level of satisfaction would be comparable. In civy world you certainly arent going from 200hrs to flying a 4 engine, 565000 lbs MTOW AC.
It really is a personal choice. By the mil is not the fast lane to Air CAnada to be certain. Any questions feel free to holla back.
OUT
Do some research into both paths. The lifestyle is nearly day and night, it may not be an easy choice, but it should be clear when you understand what you really want from your life and career.
If you have researched it well and are still interested in military aviation then go for it. I have never met a single person who regretted their time in the military, including myself, and if it's what you want neither will you. If your ultimate goal is to still fly for Air Canada you can do that as well too but there is a better than average chance you will end up rotary in the military which will make that transition harder, but not impossible. On the other side, if you have a yen for fighters there is not another place in the world you can do that, and whatever you end up doing until retirement you will always have that experience. If heavy jets if your bag, I've heard they may be putting pipeliners into the A310 and C17. You won't get kind of experience anywhere else so soon. And speaking of experience...you will meet your best friends in the military and you will do things you cannot do in the civvy world. And as you say, you will be serving your country at the same time.
Someone here mentioned that if you aren't committed to the military for life don't bother or something like that. Don't listen to those people. Civilian aviation in this country was founded on military pilots and we still form a large segment of commercial aviation. Just because you have ambitions beyond the military doesn't mean you shouldn't join up or that the military won't be glad to have you.
Best of luck in whatever path you choose.
Someone here mentioned that if you aren't committed to the military for life don't bother or something like that. Don't listen to those people. Civilian aviation in this country was founded on military pilots and we still form a large segment of commercial aviation. Just because you have ambitions beyond the military doesn't mean you shouldn't join up or that the military won't be glad to have you.
Best of luck in whatever path you choose.
"agree with this. Except the 1 in 10 thing needs clarity. While that may be right, I would guesstimate around 2/3-3/4 of those enrolled get operational since there's so many numpty's that come through recruiting"
Cheez is right here. The majority of the 1 in 10 lost are before they hit basic training due to various reasons, be it health or what not. I believe the attrition rate in Portage(PFT) is about 20%, and 10% in the jaw.
Cheez is right here. The majority of the 1 in 10 lost are before they hit basic training due to various reasons, be it health or what not. I believe the attrition rate in Portage(PFT) is about 20%, and 10% in the jaw.
They already have their first pipeliners on the C17 training down in the states. As for the 310, ive been told they cant put pipes on here due to the lack of an operational training unit. Same reason no pipes to the challenger either."I've heard they may be putting pipeliners into the A310 and C17"
Go military. I was faced with the same choice about 2 years ago. I had the offer to go and fly cargo overseas, (which would have screwed up my security clearance) or wait for the offer from the CF. I went military and have no regrets. The people that you work with are very switched on (yes, there are some slugs, but ALOT fewer than I've met at any civi job).
The path is long and trying. The application can take ~ 1 year. Basic training has challenges for everyone (I, personally, as a 35 year old former desk/throttle jockey found the 5 am runs in the snow a real pleasure.....not
) but the trick is to just beat through it, the sense of satisfaction when you do is great. Second language training and OJT can also wear you down. But the payoff in the end is worth it. You will be doing interesting flying (tactical flying on a C17/C130 beats doing the YUL-YYZ run three days a week). Also, another thing to consider is job stability. You will never see the CF go the way of Jetsgo. But, as has been pointed out already, balance this against 'unlimited liability' (which is the military's way of saying you are expected to get killed if the mission requires it). Its a lot to think about.
The path is long and trying. The application can take ~ 1 year. Basic training has challenges for everyone (I, personally, as a 35 year old former desk/throttle jockey found the 5 am runs in the snow a real pleasure.....not
) but the trick is to just beat through it, the sense of satisfaction when you do is great. Second language training and OJT can also wear you down. But the payoff in the end is worth it. You will be doing interesting flying (tactical flying on a C17/C130 beats doing the YUL-YYZ run three days a week). Also, another thing to consider is job stability. You will never see the CF go the way of Jetsgo. But, as has been pointed out already, balance this against 'unlimited liability' (which is the military's way of saying you are expected to get killed if the mission requires it). Its a lot to think about.Ah so its true!Pyleosnow wrote: They already have their first pipeliners on the C17 training down in the states. As for the 310, ive been told they cant put pipes on here due to the lack of an operational training unit. Same reason no pipes to the challenger either.
I'm on the multi course this year
Cant wait!
I'm in the US Military, and perhaps its different here but:
Our code of conduct states among other things, "I am an American, fighting for the force that keep our country free. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."
I'm sure Canada has a very similar thing. With that said, don't look at the military and say, "Yep, I'm gonna die."
I wouldn't send my Marines on a mission knowing they are going to die, however we have a slightly riskier job that Joe Schmuckatelli who is flying a Navajo in Stony Rapids. Get the drift?
Military life isn't for everyone, and if your goal is to fly for AC, then take a harder look at working up north.
I know Rockie can atest, but the military is full of sacrafice, with maximum reward.
I wouldn't trade my time in the Marines for anything.
Our code of conduct states among other things, "I am an American, fighting for the force that keep our country free. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."
I'm sure Canada has a very similar thing. With that said, don't look at the military and say, "Yep, I'm gonna die."
I wouldn't send my Marines on a mission knowing they are going to die, however we have a slightly riskier job that Joe Schmuckatelli who is flying a Navajo in Stony Rapids. Get the drift?
Military life isn't for everyone, and if your goal is to fly for AC, then take a harder look at working up north.
I know Rockie can atest, but the military is full of sacrafice, with maximum reward.
I wouldn't trade my time in the Marines for anything.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Ah so its true!
I'm on the multi course this year Cant wait![quote]
Yup it is. Numbers I have heard are 8 Pipes for the C17 this year. As im sure you are well aware by now things can change though. But I know at least two are down south right now. Good luck in Portage.
Second language training and OJT can also wear you down[quote]
I was in a brief that said SLT right after Basic will be a thing of the past as of April 07. As far as OJT I would say it does get old but depending on the OJT you get, it can be great. I have friends that have gone to russia, i think bermuda, and miami. But I do agree with the length of OJT does get a little tiresome, especially if you happen to be a PFT bypass.
late
I'm on the multi course this year Cant wait![quote]
Yup it is. Numbers I have heard are 8 Pipes for the C17 this year. As im sure you are well aware by now things can change though. But I know at least two are down south right now. Good luck in Portage.
Second language training and OJT can also wear you down[quote]
I was in a brief that said SLT right after Basic will be a thing of the past as of April 07. As far as OJT I would say it does get old but depending on the OJT you get, it can be great. I have friends that have gone to russia, i think bermuda, and miami. But I do agree with the length of OJT does get a little tiresome, especially if you happen to be a PFT bypass.
late
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want2flyplanz
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Ref Plus 10
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My buddy is fresh out of the military life, now flying a twin otter in Northern Canada, I mentioned this thread and his answer was unequivocal. Do both. Military flying is unlike much of the flying you will do as a civilian, and again, so is civilian flying unlike much of the military flying. If you want to do it, go for it
Take 'er easy, if she's easy take 'er twice
Take 'er easy, if she's easy take 'er twice
Well, what specifically are you looking for from the operational side?
I started out civvy (working with the likes of I am Birdog), then switched to military. Would I change anything? Maybe flown more civvy, maybe applied to the CF earlier....either way, I don't regret it. Military aviation is an entirely different way of life, and each community within the military is different, so it's hard to make a blanket statement on what to expect.
I started out civvy (working with the likes of I am Birdog), then switched to military. Would I change anything? Maybe flown more civvy, maybe applied to the CF earlier....either way, I don't regret it. Military aviation is an entirely different way of life, and each community within the military is different, so it's hard to make a blanket statement on what to expect.
Military or fly civie
From what I understand you are trying to say.. you will allow the military to be honoured with your presence. Don't be surprised if they humbly decline your offer. Thats my polite version. What I REALLY mean is.. Don't waste my tax money you little prick!!! The people that are in the military didn't get there by being stupid. They will see through your bullshit motives, and you won't even get the seat warm in the recuiting office before they fire your ass out the door.
The Canadian military hire the best of the best, and YOUR not it!!!
The Canadian military hire the best of the best, and YOUR not it!!!
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want2flyplanz
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Re: Military or fly civie
Have to agree with that statement...is that why your not in?gapper wrote:The Canadian military hire the best of the best, and YOUR not it!!!
And too late for that, I already have an offer. Just making sure I look at all my options before I get in.
Cheers
Re: Military or fly civie
Isn't that something you're supposed to do before you apply?want2flyplanz wrote:Have to agree with that statement...is that why your not in?gapper wrote:The Canadian military hire the best of the best, and YOUR not it!!!
And too late for that, I already have an offer. Just making sure I look at all my options before I get in.
Cheers
Theres a lot of threads already on this very subject, did you try a search? Do you have any specific questions that havent already been answered?
Your original post was pretty vague, so thats why you're getting vague responses.
Regarding your question on deployments- thankfully they are a very small part of a military pilot's career.... most of the time it is training, and training and training some more, both airborne and ground based. Some go a whole career without an operational deployment. Having said that, its a great feeling of pride to come home from a deployment to some less fortunate country, but while you're there it's not really a laugh a minute... good luck with your decision. Its a long commitment if all you want is an airline job, I think there are shorter routes to take you there.
Haulin' Trash......
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want2flyplanz
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Given the choice I would sacrafice an early hiring at an airline to have the honor of wearing the Maple Leaf on my uniformchuck130 wrote:Regarding your question on deployments- thankfully they are a very small part of a military pilot's career.... most of the time it is training, and training and training some more, both airborne and ground based. Some go a whole career without an operational deployment. Having said that, its a great feeling of pride to come home from a deployment to some less fortunate country, but while you're there it's not really a laugh a minute... good luck with your decision. Its a long commitment if all you want is an airline job, I think there are shorter routes to take you there.
What Ref+10 said. I couldn't have put it better.Ref Plus 10 wrote:My buddy is fresh out of the military life, now flying a twin otter in Northern Canada, I mentioned this thread and his answer was unequivocal. Do both. Military flying is unlike much of the flying you will do as a civilian, and again, so is civilian flying unlike much of the military flying.
I was CF for 16 years. For medical reasons, I'm not flying now, but the majority of my comrades eventually went civvie. That mil-civ path has been followed since the end of WWI, by thousands of pilots from many countries.
(BTW, choosing just civilian or just military is fine; like to have my cake and eat it too.)
Best wishes for your future, want2flyplanz. Please let us know how it goes.
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Rowshambow
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I agree with ., I am in the Military (trying my darndest to become a pilot) I was a Sgt in the Armoured Corps (I'm an OCDT now) and I have done 4 tours to a few different places. There is no greater satisfaction than helping out someone who is in such dire straights. My troop once "adopted" an elderly lady in Bosnia. She was a Serb living in a Muslim area. She didn't have anything. we dug out a well, helped her build a little shanty to live in! She was sobbing with joy when we were finished and made us a feast, the sad part was you know this is the only food she prob had for the winter and she is giving it to you, and to say no would be a slap in the face. We enjoyed it with her and even had a little slivo (plum brandy) to end the day. We later gathered food from the mess and brought it out to her just as a thank you and to replenish what we ate! man those memories will be with me forever and I hope my Granny never has to deal with anything like that!! Anywho sorry bout the rant! You as a pilot might never get to do or see things like that, but then again you get paid to fly , and to me thats amazing in its own right!
As others have pointed out if you accept the job, than yes you could go overseas to a crappy place and never return, but than again you might not! If you were already offered the job I would take it, as the spots are few and far between, and you might have screwed somone else who wanted that spot for life, and not just as a starting point. Also like others pointed out, you still could fail on ASC, IAP, BOTP, Basic and Advanced flight! So it could be a couple of years with low pay (as an OCDT) and nothing to show for it except a disdain for the Military!
Good luck with whatever you choose and maybe we'll be in flight school together!
As others have pointed out if you accept the job, than yes you could go overseas to a crappy place and never return, but than again you might not! If you were already offered the job I would take it, as the spots are few and far between, and you might have screwed somone else who wanted that spot for life, and not just as a starting point. Also like others pointed out, you still could fail on ASC, IAP, BOTP, Basic and Advanced flight! So it could be a couple of years with low pay (as an OCDT) and nothing to show for it except a disdain for the Military!
Good luck with whatever you choose and maybe we'll be in flight school together!
Excellent post Rowshambow. It sounds to me like the Army's loss is the Air Force's gain. Best of luck in flight school.Rowshambow wrote:I agree with ., I am in the Military (trying my darndest to become a pilot) I was a Sgt in the Armoured Corps (I'm an OCDT now) and I have done 4 tours to a few different places. There is no greater satisfaction than helping out someone who is in such dire straights. My troop once "adopted" an elderly lady in Bosnia. She was a Serb living in a Muslim area. She didn't have anything. we dug out a well, helped her build a little shanty to live in! She was sobbing with joy when we were finished and made us a feast, the sad part was you know this is the only food she prob had for the winter and she is giving it to you, and to say no would be a slap in the face. We enjoyed it with her and even had a little slivo (plum brandy) to end the day. We later gathered food from the mess and brought it out to her just as a thank you and to replenish what we ate! man those memories will be with me forever and I hope my Granny never has to deal with anything like that!! Anywho sorry bout the rant! You as a pilot might never get to do or see things like that, but then again you get paid to fly , and to me thats amazing in its own right!
As others have pointed out if you accept the job, than yes you could go overseas to a crappy place and never return, but than again you might not! If you were already offered the job I would take it, as the spots are few and far between, and you might have screwed somone else who wanted that spot for life, and not just as a starting point. Also like others pointed out, you still could fail on ASC, IAP, BOTP, Basic and Advanced flight! So it could be a couple of years with low pay (as an OCDT) and nothing to show for it except a disdain for the Military!
Good luck with whatever you choose and maybe we'll be in flight school together!
