Salary jumped up in a week

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:05 am

Noticed that a certain job ad for FOs went up from 24 up to 30 base in a week. Just an observation. Any idea if that was a typo? Was under the impression the Capt base at this company was 30G.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:43 am

Not a typo, and your right thats what the captains make.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:35 am

Is this thunder? So capts and f/o's make the same or are capts getting a bump too?

Wayne's World · Post by **Wayne's World** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:51 am

Yep, it appears that the new payments policy is directed to attract new pilots as opposed to improving existing conditions to retain their employees.

Looks like the market is improving but some company aren't and will always stay the same. To bad for them, because now it's Pilot's time. And for some, life style is more important then filght time.

WetJet · Post by **WetJet** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:02 pm

Although I am glad to hear that Thunder is paying qualified FO's well, I don't think this addresses the problems at Thunder. This will not stop the flow though of guys with less than a year in the left seat from heading to Jazz. Taking better care of the captains would keep more of them around and give the FO's something worth going to Thunder in the first place.
Good on Thunder for upping the ante though...

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:04 am

...But if I am understanding this correctly, the Captains are still at 30 G?What would make any sane Captain stay?? making the same as your FO but having twice the responsibilities? You thought people were leaving before? Gain way - i feel a flood coming on.

sprucegoose · Post by **sprucegoose** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:31 am

Code: Select all

What would make any sane Captain stay?

unless thats what they want; to loose the Captains to get new guys?

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:00 am

Is there a BOND???

Another excellent reason to never pay up front for any job.

Never thought of that one before - they got you and you're stuck but new arrivals get more money than you do. How do you spell S-C-R-E-W-E-D? Or, perhaps, w-o-r-k t-o r-u-l-e?

Excuuuse me if I wrong (I pilot - I never wrong)!

wrenchingirl · Post by **wrenchingirl** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:02 pm

yes there is a bond

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:19 pm

Must wonder if they EVER have to do recurrent training? I've heard everybody just hits the road after the "bond" has expired?

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:39 pm

wrenchingirl wrote:yes there is a bond

Bond=No
Promisary Note=Yes

No money up front

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:56 pm

That is a bond.

Wayne's World · Post by **Wayne's World** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:36 pm

Nobody is on the same contract. If you want to deal something, you have to do it on your own. And you can putt the money up front if you want to.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:59 am

You guys f%$#kin are amazing.... You bitch about companies not paying enough then along comes someone that offers a raise to qualified F/O's, PLUS the opportunity for a quick upgrade, PLUS offers the captains up to $75000 a yr to fly a MU-2 or KA, PLUS offers them $5000 more if they stay for 24 months, PLUS full benefits, PLUS good maintence, all this while living in a civilized city with all the amenities, and you still find something to bitch about. WHat exactly do you want? A $100,000 /yr to sit on your ass and do nothing???? If you think that you can rate a company by the number of pilots that are leaving to fly bigger planes at Jazz or AC then CMA and Georgian must be right down there at the bottom, as a TON of their pilots have left in the last year!! Some of you really need to give your heads a shake.

WetJet · Post by **WetJet** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:13 pm

Just to be clear, a starting captain still makes more than the FOs, the mileage rate is 5 to 20 times higher for the skippers. HOWEVER, there are NO captains making 75K at Thunder, except for perhaps the company check pilot. This being said, Thunder pays WAY better than Voyageur for similar type of work, and at 10 on and 5 off, you can still have a life.

HighBypass · Post by **HighBypass** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:33 pm

BCflyer is right, stop bitching... what they are paying someone else is none of your business.

if your a captian wanting to make some cash, go to AC, or go to YZF... starting left seat can be about $70... if your good.

bobm · Post by **bobm** » Tue May 08, 2007 5:35 am

WetJet...you are not correct re: no-one at 75G.

Fact is, anyone with 3 years in IS there...or higher.

My edit...and that is NOT including the 5 grand annual bonus either.

caddispilot · Post by **caddispilot** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:40 pm

Year #3 $ 70,000.00 plus $5,000 retention bonus annually

What is the mileage based on year 3? And how much flying will you do in a year on the MU2/Be10? Is there still a YHD base? ALS? That together would be a sweet gig.

WetJet · Post by **WetJet** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:53 pm

Well I guess I stand corrected. If senior skippers are making 75K on a BE10 or MU2 that is above average. I hope more companies take Thunders lead. It should make for an easy choise when considering Voyaguer, Wabusk or Bravo etc...
WJ

YYZ_Instructor · Post by **YYZ_Instructor** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm

I have a buddy who works there at the moment and he told me that moral is very low at the moment, across all types. The captains who are working there are makin 30 G's a year, but some new captain is going to join and make 70 G's!! I'd be pissed!!
Ohh and by the way, all the pilots that saw this add and seemed interested, I'd be cautious going to that side....working 10 and 5 on pager is not a simple as a 12hour scheduled day with Voyageur. He's also told me everything is OPS Spec'd at Thunder....more duty time allowance (15hours)...and if u only do 5 hours in oneday and you get to go home, you are both on duty but off duty if you don't get called again!?!? That sounds quite bad to me!
Who said being based in Thunder Bay

You guys f%$#kin are amazing.... You bitch about companies not paying enough then along comes someone that offers a raise to qualified F/O's, PLUS the opportunity for a quick upgrade, PLUS offers the captains up to $75000 a yr to fly a MU-2 or KA, PLUS offers them $5000 more if they stay for 24 months, PLUS full benefits, PLUS good maintence, all this while living in a civilized city with all the amenities, and you still find something to bitch about.

Oh yeah...BCFLYER...they can base you at ThunderBay, Sudbury, Timmins and Sioux Lookout.... I wouldn't call those all civilized!
I'm staying put... no thanks! My buddy is already looking forward to the end of his bond!

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:06 am

I just left there a month ago and yeah the moral was getting pretty low as the flying had dropped off alot, however since I have left the guys and gals are flying there ass's off.
As for the salary I don't agree with it now, especially since like said someone comes in than thats what they get, however from a business stand point you have to do what you can to fill the seats with qualified drivers right..

He's also told me everything is OPS Spec'd at Thunder....more duty time allowance (15hours)

Ok sooooo what else is ops spec'd, do you not realized that every company up here has the 15 hour ops spec, do you not realize also that when you plan your day that the 15th hour if required is not to fly home, it is more aless for paper work if you need it.

mmm, other ops specs, lets see, the GPS one, yeah we had that as well you need that to fly there.

Lower approach ban minimums, yup as the approach ban is a facking joke.

mmm, want to add any.

As for the 10 on 5 off, if you think working a 12 hour scheduled shift is good and easy you should really try it, Thunder use to do it and my understanding is the pilots wanted it out. Perfect example, your on your shift from 6 am till 6 pm. 5:30 pm rolls around and you get a call for a trip, you can't say sorry i'm off in 1/2 hour you go, and you can go now for up to so many hours. The guys I know HATED it.

The 10 on 5 off was sweet, especially when you are flying.

Now if you like to have a diverse flying career when you young try out the medivac stuff, I loved it. My most memorable day was getting up in the morning to do a thunder bay pearson, after landing in pearson I got bounched for a big trout lake to sioux lookout. This diversity in flying is not unusual, you can often go from heavy traffic to where are we.

the break down for the job is simple really, if you get a page your expected to be airbourne in an hour, that means if your at the beach you better have you uniform in the car along with an overnight bag and a lunch bag, you maybe gone for 1 flight, or my worst 3 days.
The aircraft are well maintained so I never once worried about getting into something that I wasn't sure of.

Anyway if there is anything else, I'll be happy to answer.

Oh yeah, sioux lookout for the time being is no long,

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:45 am

YYZ_Instructor wrote:I have a buddy who works there at the moment and he told me that moral is very low at the moment, across all types. The captains who are working there are makin 30 G's a year, but some new captain is going to join and make 70 G's!! I'd be pissed!!
Ohh and by the way, all the pilots that saw this add and seemed interested, I'd be cautious going to that side....working 10 and 5 on pager is not a simple as a 12hour scheduled day with Voyageur. He's also told me everything is OPS Spec'd at Thunder....more duty time allowance (15hours)...and if u only do 5 hours in oneday and you get to go home, you are both on duty but off duty if you don't get called again!?!? That sounds quite bad to me!
Who said being based in Thunder Bay
You guys f%$#kin are amazing.... You bitch about companies not paying enough then along comes someone that offers a raise to qualified F/O's, PLUS the opportunity for a quick upgrade, PLUS offers the captains up to $75000 a yr to fly a MU-2 or KA, PLUS offers them $5000 more if they stay for 24 months, PLUS full benefits, PLUS good maintence, all this while living in a civilized city with all the amenities, and you still find something to bitch about.
Oh yeah...BCFLYER...they can base you at ThunderBay, Sudbury, Timmins and Sioux Lookout.... I wouldn't call those all civilized!
I'm staying put... no thanks! My buddy is already looking forward to the end of his bond!

Ok,

I'll admit I know NOTHING about the particular situation being discussed here, but YYZ, you really need to give your head a shake. I certainly hope I completely misunderstood your post, because with an attitude like that my friend, you're going nowhere fast.

I think a big part of what's going on is the attitude of many, not all, but many new pilots starting out these days. If you're pissed by that statement, go a read my posts and you'll see I'm one of the biggest proponents of higher wages and better working conditions on Avcan. But, the word "working" is the key, and it seems to me many of you people are allergic to some honest work. Bitching about 10 and 5???? How about you try my 42 and 5? A 15hr duty day? Why don't you go fly FAR Part 91 where there are no duty times? $30,000/yr to sit as an F/o on a Single Pilot machine, why don't you go learn to fly something as PIC for $15,000 in a summer and then a lay-off?

You guys really seem to have been fed some serious BS about aviation somewhere along the line. I'm very sorry the moral is low at Thunder, but the guys/gals working there may have considered that when they signed on. Oh wait, the promise of a shiny airplane got in the way rational decision making when it came time to sign the contract.

stl

YYZ_Instructor · Post by **YYZ_Instructor** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:56 am

42 and 5? haha...never heard of anything so crazy!
I admire you for working for your money! I really don't need to try FAR 91 or 42 and 5, my sched of 6 and 5 do me well....
I would never accept a job like that especially for 30,000 and sorry but i am not new to this industry. Nothing worse than having to work at the bottom of the pole with that bottom pole wage, trust me I admire my friend, but I would never do anything like that.
Think about what you say! You almost sound proud of making 15,000 a year to be laid off. There are people that graduate from highscool and make 30,000 a year on their first job.
How much has each pilot spent on flying? 30 to 40 G's!!
And then we are all scared to standup to make a descent wage! We are all professional pilots, don't forget that! 200 hours or 10,000 hours, you still are licenced professionally by Transport Canada!
Would you fly me around in my private C172 for 15,000 a year 24 hours on call? If so send me your resume....

Cheers for the constructive post, but my post was to what I heard at Thunder and passing it along to other professional pilots that wanted to know what is on the grape vine. Some people are happy working for 30,000 a year at 42 and 5, some are happy making 80,000 working 6 and 5. No one is forcing me or you to work, so I'll do my job and you do yours.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:05 am

YYZ_Instructor wrote:I have a buddy who works there at the moment and he told me that moral is very low at the moment, across all types. The captains who are working there are makin 30 G's a year, but some new captain is going to join and make 70 G's!! I'd be pissed!!
Ohh and by the way, all the pilots that saw this add and seemed interested, I'd be cautious going to that side....working 10 and 5 on pager is not a simple as a 12hour scheduled day with Voyageur. He's also told me everything is OPS Spec'd at Thunder....more duty time allowance (15hours)...and if u only do 5 hours in oneday and you get to go home, you are both on duty but off duty if you don't get called again!?!? That sounds quite bad to me!
Who said being based in Thunder Bay
You guys f%$#kin are amazing.... You bitch about companies not paying enough then along comes someone that offers a raise to qualified F/O's, PLUS the opportunity for a quick upgrade, PLUS offers the captains up to $75000 a yr to fly a MU-2 or KA, PLUS offers them $5000 more if they stay for 24 months, PLUS full benefits, PLUS good maintence, all this while living in a civilized city with all the amenities, and you still find something to bitch about.
Oh yeah...BCFLYER...they can base you at ThunderBay, Sudbury, Timmins and Sioux Lookout.... I wouldn't call those all civilized!
I'm staying put... no thanks! My buddy is already looking forward to the end of his bond!

Wow, thats all I can say. Just out of curiousity what type of flying are you doing right now? I'd like to hear what you think is a much better job. Judging by your handle and your attitude you obviously haven't worked in the charter or medivac industry. 10 and 5 is a pretty good schedule. Try flying floats for the summer, you'll be lucky to get 1 day a week off. There are not too many places I can think of where you get 5 days off in a row twice a month. (I'm at a MUCH bigger company now and can't get 5 days off in a row)
You will WORK hard at Thunder, there is no doubt about that. Yes you will live on your pager on the days that you work. Thunder doesn't hide that fact. You will work hard at pretty much every charter company of this size. Welcome to aviation. Anyone that can't put in a good honest days work should go back to living in Mommy's basement!! Some of todays pilots seem to have a sense of entitlement that makes me sick.
Every charter company out there has some sort of OP specs for duty day, lower mins etc. This is NOT some special thing that only Thunder does.
As for your comment about Thunder Bay, Timmins, Sudbury and Sioux Lookout not being civilized, you are once again showing your total lack of experience in this industry. All of the above mentioned places are just fine to live in. Try going to Pickle Lake, Moosenee, Island Lake, Round Lake, etc etc. You really need to come down off your high horse, adjust your attitude and join the real world of aviation. Its not all glory and girls, its alot of really HARD work!!!!

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:37 am

Proud of $15,000 in a summer - no, absolutely not. But, that is what happened to me many years ago, and continues to happen to many young/new pilots today. Those jobs are often all about hard work, and there's something to be gained from that. What galls me a little bit is seeing 22yr old 500hr wonders bitching about schedules and such.

The way I see it is this. Work for a wage you can live on, nothing less, work hard, learn as much as you can about what you're doing, and have fun. If you can't do that, change your situation. I try very hard to live by that, and have done since my first job. Of course we sometimes make mistakes and get involved in situations that aren't ideal, but in that case see above - change it, bitching will get you nowhere.

stl

PS Our 42 and 5's are in the summer only, and most of us try to avoid those whenever possible, but on occasion they do happen. The big difference is the money involved, as the 42 day shifts that can be worth around $30,000 if you're on contract rates and put in a full 210hrs. (We can often bill more than we fly to boot) They're usually followed by a large amount of time off in the winter where you can spend it all....

Salary jumped up in a week

Salary jumped up in a week

Stop bitching