Peace Air Officially done.

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Pie Lot
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Post by Pie Lot »

If there are any PC12 drivers out there with a PPC looking for work; PM me.

PL
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DA900
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Re: yeg

Post by DA900 »

07Canucks wrote:
My point was United, Delta, American, Continental and no International airlines have schedule service to Edmonton
.

What about United to Chicago, San Francisco and Denver, Northwest to MSP, Delta to Salt Lake City, US Air (America West Express) to Vegas and Phoenix, and Horizon Air to Seattle. With the exception of two flights, these have all been added as new destinations within the past two years and doesnt even include Air Canada and Westjet adding about another dozen new destinations. YEG is growing fast.
My point was United, Delta, American, Continental and no International airlines have schedule service to Edmonton. As I stated there are a few regional airlines flying RJ's
07Canucks as a said in my post United, Delta, Alaska don't fly to YEG their regional companies do. American pulled out 10 years ago and Continental pulled out last year. If you think YEG is an "International Airport" you have to get out more. Go look at YYC you will see that United, Delta, American, Continental, British, ect. do fly there.
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Rectum, damn near killed 'em
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skyismine
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Post by skyismine »

DA-900 I partially agree with you on some aspects but not all,YXD could have a niche and already does.For flights to YYC I agree it should have some service to that point for the buisness folks.The argument is the same one YYZ had to deal with when it came to YTZ.The GTAA now allows limited service from YTZ with Porter.Maybe a few flights to YYC should be thought about as the only people using the service would be mainly buisness travellers and would pose little to no threats to YEG.As for Rj's YYC gets them also Jazz flys them to IAH from YYC,HP to Phoenix and Las vegas,and even UA's regional subsidaries serve YYC.You seem to forget that YYC is a hub for AC and that brings about competition.If YEG was a hub could you imagine?Also looks like F9 is dropping YYC this fall due to low loads,so perhaps a little too much competition.Dont forget YEG is the fastest growing major airport in Canada at the moment in terms of monthly passenger number's.You have some valid points,but so do I.
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07Canucks
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Post by 07Canucks »

The move of most passenger service to the International airport is not entirely Edmonton Airports fault. The people of Edmonton espcially those living near City Center were instumental in getting this to eventually happen, they have been complaning about noise for ten years. Now I do think it was ridiculous to restrict passenger loads because that has nothing to do with noise, what about biz jets flying in and out daily? As for Calgary, they will always be more of an International airport than us. They've been a major business center for longer than Edmonton, so attracted the International carriers sooner. There is no sense operating major International routes from two cities so close together, the airlines will continue to feed passengers to YYC for conecting flight. YEG's best chance for growth is to attract major cargo carriers, providing them a dedicated runway with facilities at a lower cost than Anchorage.
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rustytools
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Post by rustytools »

"All I can say is, perhaps in the Name of Aviaiotn safety, probably the best move...."

That is wisdom right there. For the last few months they have barely been able to meet their MEL's.

However, I assume that Alta Flights/FlightTech will be closing it's Calgary base then? Surely no one else but Q Jets will send their aircraft there in the foreseeable future.

There are going to be a lot of angry customers: First Quik Air, and now there is Peace Air and the possibilty that things might not go so well for Q Jets, who are also maintaned by Alta Flights/FlightTech.

I really hope that all of the AME's at FlightTech are not left hanging, waiting for money that will never come.

And then there is Calvin. Enough said.
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DA900
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Post by DA900 »

07Canucks good post. I agree with you as do most, about YEG to YYC comparison. Calgary has more of the economic drive that makes it more an international stop, and as you said it makes no sense to have two airports that close fighting for the same flights. I don’t understand is why the ERAA continue to halt any small 10 seat or less operators from flying from YXD. There excuse is they will steal passengers from YEG international flights that don’t and never have existed.

As for the debate to move the flights to YEG your points are valid, but the ERAA also used scare tactics as well as misleading information as well. Telling people of Edmonton that YEG would close down. That if we move the flights to YEG 747's would be landing from all over the world. They also let people know of the loads that were using YXD were a lot higher that actual. The info they released would include pax traveling through eg. YQU-YYC via YXD. It made it look like everyone was using YXD to fly to there destination even if they were just passing through.

As for the people living by the YXD, you, I and I’m sure everyone else has the same comment. Don’t move there if you don’t like airplane noise. My God the airport has been there for over 75 years. DUH!

Any who just my two cents.

PS. skyismine valid points!
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Rectum, damn near killed 'em
just another pilot
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Post by just another pilot »

Yes, STL. Consolidation tends to raise numbers...

Integra does well? Good for them. What routes do they service? How about Direct Air, Quick Air, Corpac and Peace Air? Just to name a few that have been bent by the ERAA. No, they have not raised fuel or maintenance prices, but they have certainly made it difficult to provide convenient service for their niche/demographic market. It is now less of a hassle to drive a certain distance/radius from Edmonton than it does to fly. It may not affect companies south of CYXD, but it impacts the ones to the North.

The ERAA increases it service(s) at the expense of of others. As an Edmontonian/pilot, I have not seen an improvement in service. In fact, over the past ten years, all I have experienced is inconvenience.

Edmonton Economic Development? With this type of service, why would I want to head my corporation(s) there? Keep your gentrification plan going for the downtown core, because it is the last place I would want to do business.
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tailgunner
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Post by tailgunner »

CYXD will most likely be closed in 2 years anyways. Most if not ALL of the leases aparently come due within the next 2 years. Devlopers have their eyes on the real estate, and for years developers have been living with the building restrictions that come from the ILS . If you look at the Stationland development ( 2- 30 storey towers) runway 12/30 will be the first to go. This development is almost on the extended centerline for 30.
Plus, there was a recent proposal to build another tower downtown that would be taller than Manulife place. This apparently comprimises the ILS safety zone...Money talks, and I can see the day when the aiport is closed and sold off.
The way Edmonton is growing , YEG is only 5-6 miles south of the newest developments in south Edmonton. The drive time is becoming lerss relevant as traffic exceeds the capacity of most roads. Edmontonians are living with traffic and are now becoming used to living in a 'big' city. It takes longer to get from YYZ to downtown TO or YVR to downtown Vancouver than YEG to downtown Edmonton..... Just a thought.
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Goose757
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Post by Goose757 »

tailgunner wrote:CYXD will most likely be closed in 2 years anyways. Most if not ALL of the leases aparently come due within the next 2 years. Devlopers have their eyes on the real estate, and for years developers have been living with the building restrictions that come from the ILS . If you look at the Stationland development ( 2- 30 storey towers) runway 12/30 will be the first to go. This development is almost on the extended centerline for 30.
Plus, there was a recent proposal to build another tower downtown that would be taller than Manulife place. This apparently comprimises the ILS safety zone...Money talks, and I can see the day when the aiport is closed and sold off.
The way Edmonton is growing , YEG is only 5-6 miles south of the newest developments in south Edmonton. The drive time is becoming lerss relevant as traffic exceeds the capacity of most roads. Edmontonians are living with traffic and are now becoming used to living in a 'big' city. It takes longer to get from YYZ to downtown TO or YVR to downtown Vancouver than YEG to downtown Edmonton..... Just a thought.
Who still flies sched service into YXD, is it only Mikisew now? How many charter companies are based there? Don't Airco and North Cariboo have charter bases there? How much business traffic do they get into YXD on a daily basis?
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Tube Driver
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Post by Tube Driver »

I believe that the only airport in a major Canadian center to have less traffic than CYEG was Mirabel. Is it not an amusement park now? In fact now that I think of it, it has quite a bit in common with CYEG, one is an amusement park and the other is a gost town.

From what I have heard around the field, Q Jets is not a commercial carrier, it is a private outfit of some sort. But I do not know, so will not comment.
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skyismine
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Post by skyismine »

YEG is canada's 5th busiest airport,up till consolidation happened it was quite.Not so much anymore...Sunwest has already moved its YXD operations to YEG,and from what I gather NWI jet is moving to EG in a few months.EG is expected to add another 1 million passengers in 2007.

Canada's top 10 busiest airports by passenger volume.
1.)YYZ
2.)YVR
3.)YUL
4.)YYC
5.)YEG
6.)YOW
7.)YWG
8.)YHZ
9.)YYJ
10.)YLW
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Goose757
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Post by Goose757 »

skyismine wrote:Sunwest has already moved its YXD operations to YEG,and from what I gather NWI jet is moving to EG in a few months.=
Why did Sunwest move? Were they forced to or was it their decision? You'd think that it would be better for a charter company to be based at YXD rather than YEG.
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skyismine
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Post by skyismine »

a few things,the hanger they were using (not shell or Esso) was too small for planned expansion, the company wants to move ahead with and also the hanger is going to be sold soon from what I gather.Within 2 years the city is expected to likely sell YXD as several developers want the land and are willing to pay top buck for it.Also a american developer is pushing for it as they want to develop a 3 tower office building in the downtown core that they cant right now because of height restrictions imposed by having the airport so near the core,apparently it will consist of 3 tall tower's including one that will be Edmonton's new tallest.
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MrWings
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Post by MrWings »

WJ700 wrote:Wow, that is sad. Peace Air has a lot of history and was once a well run company. Long before the Jetstreams and sked flying, Peace was my first job where I was hired with 250 hours. I had a lot of fun there and used up a lot of my bag of luck.

Best of Luck to those out of work.
Another old timer like me.

Hey kids, Peace Air was the place to be if you were starting out. Tons of hours and they paid very well.

Things change when a non aviation person decides that pilots are a dime a dozen and tries to run a airline like a Walmart. Ego and trophies were more in control than market demand and keeping people happy.

At least the flying public won't get the old switcharoo with a noisy piston banger tickling 10000' when they expected a pressurized turboprop.
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Goose757
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Post by Goose757 »

The big question is who is going to fill the void left by Peace? What were their loads like? What were their best routes? Is CMA or someone like them going to step in a fill some of the void?
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MrWings
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Post by MrWings »

There are probably 3 locations in Northern AB and BC that are worth serving.

And count YQU out. If you're not going to the Muni no sense in tapping that market in which WestJet and AC already service.

YQF will never keep a scheduled carrier.

CMA seems like the logical choice.
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pushyboss
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Post by pushyboss »

I flew for Peace Air in the 80's out of High Level. We had a lot of fun back then. It is sad to see them go out this way.
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MrWings
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Post by MrWings »

pushyboss wrote:I flew for Peace Air in the 80's out of High Level. We had a lot of fun back then. It is sad to see them go out this way.
Crazy J.M. ?????????
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pushyboss
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Post by pushyboss »

Nope...but he was....
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heropsychodreamer
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Post by heropsychodreamer »

http://prrecordgazette.com/News/310124.html

Starting to see a finger pointing pattern. :?
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