If you care about the environment you won't fly!

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:55 am

I heard an environmentalist on the radio yesterday talking about how big of a polluter aviation was and she was making some suggestions on making your vacation a little more environmentally friendly. Sounds good so far, but one of her tips made little sense to me. It was "consider driving rather than flying"
A few months ago I was flying and just for fun I decided to calculate what would burn more fuel, us in the airplane or all of the passengers driving the same route, 2 pax per car. In this case it was about the same. Of course emissions and fuel burn are connected but not quite the same thing.
Has anyone seen any studies done on the environmental impact of a 737 or something flying from say Toronto to Orlando as opposed to all of these passengers travelling by car. I'd like to see train travel thrown in the mix too.
If there all about the same fine but if one stands out as a truly green option I'd be in favour of tax subsidies on that form of travel and if one stands out as a big polluter impose additional tax to help subsidize the others.
My bet would be that driving would actually be the worst option from an environmental standpoint.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:01 am

I think that there is more risk to people from chemtrails than carbon emissions from jets.

It is a fact that the government is using jets to spread chemicals in the air to control the population, I know this to be true because I heard it on the Art Bell show.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:09 am

I think she's really on to something. Perhaps she can drive her car to Europe. (She might get stuch 30' off the coast of NF though. Glug glug glug).

MrWings · Post by **MrWings** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:22 am

Cat Driver wrote:It is a fact that the government is using jets to spread chemicals in the air to control the population, I know this to be true because I heard it on the Art Bell show.

LOL @ Art Bell. Spraying a popultation from 30000'+ is like trying to drop a feather into a cup on the ground from the top of the CN tower.

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:27 am

One of the additional environmental concerns with a/c is the location of the emitions. Post 9/11 was the only time they were able to get a decent idea of what the immediate impact of planes was. While the airspace was shut down temperature fluctuations were abnormal. Day time temps were a few degrees warmer, night temps a few degrees cooler, and evening cooling occured more rapidly than usual. It was believed that contrails and undisipated emissions before and after the airspace closure were actually blocking sun during the day and trapping heat at night. When the planes were grounded these problems also went away for a few days causing a return to more natural weather patterns.

Edited for possibly inaccurate numbers now that I look back at the studies. Sorry.

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:32 am

Jess thats actually pretty interesting. Got some documentation on that?

Rotten Apple #1 · Post by **Rotten Apple #1** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:38 am

Here's a link I found last week when researching ozone depletion by jets. Take it with a grain of salt, or two, as the "science" is a little weak in this area IMHO...

http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/W ... lution.htm

You also might notice the occasional WJ ad popping up, courtesy of Goooogle. Irony eh?

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:39 am

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/200 ... ions_x.htm

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:40 am

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/200 ... ions_x.htm

Damn Computer

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:53 am

Blaming chemtrails for the impotence eh Cat?

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:57 am

Very interesting article Johnny Dangerous.

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:52 am

johnny,

I'll agree that the article you've posted has a reactionary "the world is ending" feel to it. However that one only refers briefly to the study I mentioned. The original study was, if I recall correctly, based on apparently good science from a reputable source. I'll do my best to find the link, but I'll be heading out of town for a few days so I might not get it right away.

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Thu May 24, 2007 10:05 am

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 075457.htm

This one gives links to additional studies
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020511/fob1.asp

I hope I linked those right. I've never done it before.

There are lots more if you google "contrails september 11". Sorry I don't have time to link others. Gotta get rollin.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Thu May 24, 2007 10:33 am

Cat Driver wrote:I think that there is more risk to people from chemtrails than carbon emissions from jets.

It is a fact that the government is using jets to spread chemicals in the air to control the population, I know this to be true because I heard it on the Art Bell show.

I totally thought that you'd lost your mind until the last sentence, Cat... nice post

SierraPoppa · Post by **SierraPoppa** » Thu May 24, 2007 10:57 am

Bede wrote:I think she's really on to something. Perhaps she can drive her car to Europe. (She might get stuch 30' off the coast of NF though. Glug glug glug).

Well if she uses Google Maps she can get the driving directions.

Go to Google Maps http://maps.google.ca/
2. Click on "get directions".
3. type "Toronto, Canada" in the first box (the "front" box).
4. type "Paris, France" in the second box (the "to" box)
5. Click on "get directions".

Scroll down to direction #17

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:02 am

Haha nice. Good job SP

Goose757 · Post by **Goose757** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:07 am

SierraPoppa wrote:
Bede wrote:I think she's really on to something. Perhaps she can drive her car to Europe. (She might get stuch 30' off the coast of NF though. Glug glug glug).
Well if she uses Google Maps she can get the driving directions.

Go to Google Maps
2. Click on "get directions".
3. type "Toronto, Canada" in the first box (the "front" box).
4. type "Paris, France" in the second box (the "to" box)
5. Click on "get directions".

Scroll down to direction #17

17. Swim across the Atlantic Ocean
Entering France

5,572 km

Thats awesome.

W5 · Post by W5 » Thu May 24, 2007 11:08 am

http://www.enviro.aero/Home.aspx

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:48 am

These chemtrails are serious business.

Because of chemtrails, the government has been controlling my mind.

Like when I say, "@#$!!" the government made me say it. Or if I go 160km/h in my car or spin a plane, the government makes me do that too. We are all pawns! BEWARE THE CHEMTRAILS!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.rense.com/general4/fre.htm

-istp

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Thu May 24, 2007 12:12 pm

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/v/light.htm

Some real disturbing letters written to various politicians regarding mind control and the airplanes that are carrying out this assault on civilians. Scary stuff.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:55 pm

I've heard that in tonnes of CO2 per passenger-mile, a full aircraft is more efficient than a full car, and it blows an SUV out of the water. The biggest problem is that your average plane trip is several thousand miles, so one might say that a more accurate statement is "if you care about the environment, don't travel long distances".

tesox · Post by **tesox** » Thu May 24, 2007 3:52 pm

You know what Im gonna do, Im gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac, Eldorado convertible, Hot pink, with whale skin hubcaps, And all leather cow interior, And make brown baby seal eyes for head lights (yeah)
And Im gonna drive in that baby at 115 miles per hour,Gettin' 1 mile per gallon, Sucking down Quarter Pounder cheeseburgers from McDonalds
In the old fashioned non-biodegradable styrofoam containers

Dex · Post by **Dex** » Thu May 24, 2007 3:59 pm

tesox wrote:You know what Im gonna do, Im gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac, Eldorado convertible, Hot pink, with whale skin hubcaps, And all leather cow interior, And make brown baby seal eyes for head lights (yeah)
And Im gonna drive in that baby at 115 miles per hour,Gettin' 1 mile per gallon, Sucking down Quarter Pounder cheeseburgers from McDonalds
In the old fashioned non-biodegradable styrofoam containers

sounds like your just a regular Joe with a regular job

TheCheez · Post by **TheCheez** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:51 pm

Coast to Coast AM is my favourite radio comedy!

tesox · Post by **tesox** » Thu May 24, 2007 5:28 pm

Hi Dex,

Im your average white, suburbanized slob I like football and porno and books about war. Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces while handicapped people make handicapped faces...