Evening there folks.
I am at this time working at Jazz and have seen a lot of friends going to team teal and have started thinking about doing the same due to various reasons. Most of them are fairly new over there and don’t as of yet, have a good lay of the land. So here I am asking you fine folks.
Facts: Married with kids and a nice house within commuting distance of YYZ, and she does not want to move. Over 9K hours.
Questions: I have read as much as I can on the virtual base you have out of YYZ, but does this work for all of the persons wanting to be a part of said base. Or is it based on seniority and as a new hire you will have to commute to Calgary to start your flying? And if so how are the loads?
What kind of time can one, as a new hire, expect to be away from YYZ during the average month?
What kind of $ do first year pilot expect to see taking into consideration I have responsibilities (bank) to take care of and will not be doing much towards stocks?
Have had qualified friends apply way back when without any internal help and not one was hired. Or must you have someone on the inside?
There you have it. That should start me off, and give my wife some information to start our discussions. Thanks in advance….
Jazz Guy Questions
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Hey You There
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Ryan Coke2
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I'll try to help you out--it can be a tough decision, and have been there myself (also ex Jazz/CRA).
First, there is no seniority for anything other than upgrade. So any schedule issues will be the same for you as for anyone else---you don't have to take crap schedules for your first years here. As for the YYZ port, you can see there are some other threads here speculating on where this might go. For now, the actual port pairings you get that start and end in YYZ are limited by the number of Captains also using the TO port. From what I understand you will probably get 1 or 2 pairings a month that might be port, and any others are out of YYC with you being responsible for the commute. There are no guarantees of a certain number of pairings out of YYZ just because you sign up for the port.
As for where it is going as far as YYZ, take a guess. There is a meeting from what I understand going on shortly that is going to be taking a hard look at the YYZ issue, and determine where we go from here. Possibilities range from letting it grow on its own, making the port more attractive for those that are considering it, deadheading just Captains to meet up with the many YZ FO's there are, right up to the possibility of a full base. Who knows, everything is pure speculation at this point.
So, for now be prepared to do a fair bit of commuting. There are quite a few that do it, so it is a very feasible. We also have jumpseat agreements with AC, so that gives you more options. Also, standby travel isn't based on seniority, so your ability to get on a flight is as good as anyone else (based on check in time, max 3 hrs prior). Even if you get no port pairings, usually the most you would commute is 4 times a month (max 16 days worked/4-4 day pairings). Also, you can try to get pairings that start or end with a deadhead that you can either cancel (if to/from YYZ) or you can change the last leg deadhead to go back to YYZ instead of YYC. They are making things easier.
As for pay, I don't know what it would be if you don't take part in the ESP (stock plan). It is 40k for the first year, so what is that...$1000 every 2 weeks? Just guessing. Per diems are probably a little less than Jazz, but not too far off. Certainly I understand you concern with the ESP, but I would suggest you seriously consider getting a line of credit, and use that to subsidize what you are losing off your bi-weekly pay for the first year or two by being involved in the ESP. You are getting a 100% rate of return, and paying 5-6% per year interest on the credit line--a 95% gain for you. Otherwise you are turning down a voluntary 20% raise.
It isn't for everyone, and I totally understand people that feel that WJ isn't for them. But I can tell you that I went through the same waffling for quite a while, and now I see it was the best decision I ever made---I only wish I made it sooner. My financial situation is profoundly better after 3 years here than after 5 at Jazz, in spite of the initial pain. Even then, though the paychecks were smaller for a while, I made (T4) almost the same in my first year at WJ than what I did after 5 at Jazz, and since then it isn't even close.
Hope that starts you and your wife off--feel free to PM me if you have other questions.
First, there is no seniority for anything other than upgrade. So any schedule issues will be the same for you as for anyone else---you don't have to take crap schedules for your first years here. As for the YYZ port, you can see there are some other threads here speculating on where this might go. For now, the actual port pairings you get that start and end in YYZ are limited by the number of Captains also using the TO port. From what I understand you will probably get 1 or 2 pairings a month that might be port, and any others are out of YYC with you being responsible for the commute. There are no guarantees of a certain number of pairings out of YYZ just because you sign up for the port.
As for where it is going as far as YYZ, take a guess. There is a meeting from what I understand going on shortly that is going to be taking a hard look at the YYZ issue, and determine where we go from here. Possibilities range from letting it grow on its own, making the port more attractive for those that are considering it, deadheading just Captains to meet up with the many YZ FO's there are, right up to the possibility of a full base. Who knows, everything is pure speculation at this point.
So, for now be prepared to do a fair bit of commuting. There are quite a few that do it, so it is a very feasible. We also have jumpseat agreements with AC, so that gives you more options. Also, standby travel isn't based on seniority, so your ability to get on a flight is as good as anyone else (based on check in time, max 3 hrs prior). Even if you get no port pairings, usually the most you would commute is 4 times a month (max 16 days worked/4-4 day pairings). Also, you can try to get pairings that start or end with a deadhead that you can either cancel (if to/from YYZ) or you can change the last leg deadhead to go back to YYZ instead of YYC. They are making things easier.
As for pay, I don't know what it would be if you don't take part in the ESP (stock plan). It is 40k for the first year, so what is that...$1000 every 2 weeks? Just guessing. Per diems are probably a little less than Jazz, but not too far off. Certainly I understand you concern with the ESP, but I would suggest you seriously consider getting a line of credit, and use that to subsidize what you are losing off your bi-weekly pay for the first year or two by being involved in the ESP. You are getting a 100% rate of return, and paying 5-6% per year interest on the credit line--a 95% gain for you. Otherwise you are turning down a voluntary 20% raise.
It isn't for everyone, and I totally understand people that feel that WJ isn't for them. But I can tell you that I went through the same waffling for quite a while, and now I see it was the best decision I ever made---I only wish I made it sooner. My financial situation is profoundly better after 3 years here than after 5 at Jazz, in spite of the initial pain. Even then, though the paychecks were smaller for a while, I made (T4) almost the same in my first year at WJ than what I did after 5 at Jazz, and since then it isn't even close.
Hope that starts you and your wife off--feel free to PM me if you have other questions.
On top of port parings you can also request Toronto overnights. I have one friend who spends more time in Toronto some months than I do in Calgary. They are also working on being able to bid first/last leg dead-heads, this will give commuter even more flexibility. Good luck
The force will be with you, always
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Hey You There
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what other outports are there
are there only a couple of outbases or can you use anywhere for a virtual homebase? would find hamilton easier to commute to than yyz. any help is appreciated, and its nice to finally find a forum thats constructive! cheers
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Hey You There
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Frank Castle
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Ryan Coke2
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Congratulations! Do your prep on behavioral interviews and be positive, and you should be fine. Good luck.
BTW, YYZ commuting (and the whole port program) is continuing to improve. They are expanding the ports to the least limiting group (FA/FO/Capt) and deadheading in the rest, which will increase all the ports flying. As well, commuters can bid for those pairings which deadhead the person into another port, thereby getting posi-paid for commuting if all goes as planned. I'm sure there will still be some traditional commuting, but it is being continually improved.
As well, we just got the biggest profit share since 2000 today--just to give you something to look forward to!
BTW, YYZ commuting (and the whole port program) is continuing to improve. They are expanding the ports to the least limiting group (FA/FO/Capt) and deadheading in the rest, which will increase all the ports flying. As well, commuters can bid for those pairings which deadhead the person into another port, thereby getting posi-paid for commuting if all goes as planned. I'm sure there will still be some traditional commuting, but it is being continually improved.
As well, we just got the biggest profit share since 2000 today--just to give you something to look forward to!
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Hey You There
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Thanks for the encouragement folks. Will be taking the call soon and hopefully there will be a trip to Calgary in the future.
As for me and Jazz, I have been here for +/- 2 years and have no regrets whatsoever about having come here. ( I have been reading some of the other comments about this place on the other forum.)
As for me and Jazz, I have been here for +/- 2 years and have no regrets whatsoever about having come here. ( I have been reading some of the other comments about this place on the other forum.)
If you tax at source and 20% ESP yur take home is about 1100/2 wks plus about 450 per diems for the first year. Add a couple of ot or straight time shifts and its not to bad to live on. I made it through my first year with no extra debt, wife, house 2 kids etc so its defiantely doable.
Cheers
Cheers
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Machiavelli
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Why not debate this here? It's as good a place as any to provide real information so that those that are interested can make informed decisions. Of course this is an anonymous and public forum with all the obligatory liars and trolls (mustard). But, there is truth here too.
So, for those that care, WestJet's first year salary is $40,000 per annum paid every two weeks which amounts to $1538.46 gross ($40,000/26). Take away your taxes and whatever Employee Share Purchase Plan you've chosen from 0%-20% and you'll end up with about $750-$1100 take home every two weeks. Per Diems are paid once a month to pilots and are usually $400-$600 obviously tax free but you should be "consuming" most of that
.
Year two's salary is $50,000 which is $1923.08 every two weeks. Minus taxes and ESPP and you'll have $900-$1300 take home.
By year three you may consider an accountant.
I've talked to guys that have been here over a year and more and they're still figuring it all out, me included. With profit sharing, ESPP, options, overtime and straight-time, etc, there's a steep learning curve with different people doing things different ways.
Good luck, HeyYouThere.
So, for those that care, WestJet's first year salary is $40,000 per annum paid every two weeks which amounts to $1538.46 gross ($40,000/26). Take away your taxes and whatever Employee Share Purchase Plan you've chosen from 0%-20% and you'll end up with about $750-$1100 take home every two weeks. Per Diems are paid once a month to pilots and are usually $400-$600 obviously tax free but you should be "consuming" most of that
.Year two's salary is $50,000 which is $1923.08 every two weeks. Minus taxes and ESPP and you'll have $900-$1300 take home.
By year three you may consider an accountant.
I've talked to guys that have been here over a year and more and they're still figuring it all out, me included. With profit sharing, ESPP, options, overtime and straight-time, etc, there's a steep learning curve with different people doing things different ways.
Good luck, HeyYouThere.
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Hey You There
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Thank you folks, and Machiavelli. The more info the better the decision. Having said that it realy wasn’t a decision at all………. got the call for the interview in YYC!
PS Have you noticed this. I have heard of some (more than 4) folks turn down interviews with AC, but I have never heard of one being turning down for WJ. Interesting……
PS Have you noticed this. I have heard of some (more than 4) folks turn down interviews with AC, but I have never heard of one being turning down for WJ. Interesting……
I turned them down.....
Had a application in with them for 3 years while I flew jets
at other companies. Nothing but silence.
Got on with Jazz and out of habbit updated the application to show that.
THREE DAYS LATER THE PHONE RANG !!!!!
I had been at Jazz all of 60 days at that point.
I told the bubble tart at the other end, sorry but you guys had plenty
of time already. I know the only reason you are calling now and I think
it is ignorant.
That poor little girl didn't know what to say to that........
Hazard of hiring teenagers instead of adults I guess.
Had a application in with them for 3 years while I flew jets
at other companies. Nothing but silence.
Got on with Jazz and out of habbit updated the application to show that.
THREE DAYS LATER THE PHONE RANG !!!!!
I had been at Jazz all of 60 days at that point.
I told the bubble tart at the other end, sorry but you guys had plenty
of time already. I know the only reason you are calling now and I think
it is ignorant.
That poor little girl didn't know what to say to that........
Hazard of hiring teenagers instead of adults I guess.
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tonysoprano
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Ryan Coke2
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I'm not sure if that was a real post or a troll, but for fun I'll go with the former---
I don't understand why someone, when they decide they are somehow being 'wronged', would attempt to show the party doing the 'wrongness' how bad they are by hurting themselves? So apparently you have decided you don't like WJ's hiring practices (the way we attempt to get the best people with the best experience), so by turning them down you can stay at a lower paying job with inferior advancement opportunities. You showed us.
If you think we actually wait until people go to Jazz just so that we can inflict some pain on the company, I think you are way off. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it bothers us (doesn't bother me a whole lot after my time there), but I bet that it was largely coincidence that you got the call shortly after starting there. Your resume finally made it to the top of the pile, and I am sure the new experience helped on the scoring matrix. If you wanted to be honorable and wait I could respect that, but instead you told off the person that phoned you? The one who I have heard nothing but good things about how respectfully she treats all our candidates?
The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that there aren't many people that would have this big a paranoid chip on their shoulder, and the second option was probably right--just a troll.
I don't understand why someone, when they decide they are somehow being 'wronged', would attempt to show the party doing the 'wrongness' how bad they are by hurting themselves? So apparently you have decided you don't like WJ's hiring practices (the way we attempt to get the best people with the best experience), so by turning them down you can stay at a lower paying job with inferior advancement opportunities. You showed us.
If you think we actually wait until people go to Jazz just so that we can inflict some pain on the company, I think you are way off. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it bothers us (doesn't bother me a whole lot after my time there), but I bet that it was largely coincidence that you got the call shortly after starting there. Your resume finally made it to the top of the pile, and I am sure the new experience helped on the scoring matrix. If you wanted to be honorable and wait I could respect that, but instead you told off the person that phoned you? The one who I have heard nothing but good things about how respectfully she treats all our candidates?
The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that there aren't many people that would have this big a paranoid chip on their shoulder, and the second option was probably right--just a troll.
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Hey You There
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Re: Jazz Guy Questions
OK so I resurrected a long dead thread…..
Just wanted to say a very public thank you to all the folks here and especially the ones who personally helped me with this, and to let you all know I just got the call for a start date over in YYC!
To all the folks at Jazz, it was a pleasure to work with all of you, and all the best in the future. Go get em in 09!!
Just wanted to say a very public thank you to all the folks here and especially the ones who personally helped me with this, and to let you all know I just got the call for a start date over in YYC!
To all the folks at Jazz, it was a pleasure to work with all of you, and all the best in the future. Go get em in 09!!
