Is it better to instruct for a while then go to the charter companies. Or with the way the industry is right now should one go right into charter work and forgo intstructing?
Can anyone tell my how it is working for Kenn Borek?
To instruct or not to instruct
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eternalhold
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Sorry, no joy on the KB info.
To instruct or not to that is the question, depends if you have the rating or not, the type of instruction you are looking at conducting (single v. mult), on what type (single v. multi), how many hours you can expect from this rather than through a charter company, whether the school has also has an AOC for charters (the question is irrelevant in this case), and if you even need the time.
This is just a general statement but new instructors can build hours in quantity but not often quality (night, x-country, multi, ifr, float) so it depends on what your ultimate needs and goals are.
Oter advantages of instruction, it (should) keep you current on theory, regulations, techniques, can help you get noticed and depending on the school they'll usually pay to keep your license current.
Keep in mind you should teach because you want to, not soley because you want to build time, I've seen too many bad instructors do a terrible injustice to aviation by wasting a students time and money while cranking out a bad pilot in the end because they're more interested in their own logbook than generating the best possible product. This isn't the case of everyone but it really does show, so if you want to teach give it 100%.
To instruct or not to that is the question, depends if you have the rating or not, the type of instruction you are looking at conducting (single v. mult), on what type (single v. multi), how many hours you can expect from this rather than through a charter company, whether the school has also has an AOC for charters (the question is irrelevant in this case), and if you even need the time.
This is just a general statement but new instructors can build hours in quantity but not often quality (night, x-country, multi, ifr, float) so it depends on what your ultimate needs and goals are.
Oter advantages of instruction, it (should) keep you current on theory, regulations, techniques, can help you get noticed and depending on the school they'll usually pay to keep your license current.
Keep in mind you should teach because you want to, not soley because you want to build time, I've seen too many bad instructors do a terrible injustice to aviation by wasting a students time and money while cranking out a bad pilot in the end because they're more interested in their own logbook than generating the best possible product. This isn't the case of everyone but it really does show, so if you want to teach give it 100%.
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eternalhold
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:05 am
- Location: Edmonton
Sorry, no joy on the KB info.
To instruct or not to that is the question, depends if you have the rating or not, the type of instruction you are looking at conducting (single v. mult), on what type (single v. multi), how many hours you can expect from this rather than through a charter company, whether the school has also has an AOC for charters (the question is irrelevant in this case), and if you even need the time.
This is just a general statement but new instructors can build hours in quantity but not often quality (night, x-country, multi, ifr, float) so it depends on what your ultimate needs and goals are.
Oter advantages of instruction, it (should) keep you current on theory, regulations, techniques, can help you get noticed and depending on the school they'll usually pay to keep your license current.
Keep in mind you should teach because you want to, not soley because you want to build time, I've seen too many bad instructors do a terrible injustice to aviation by wasting a students time and money while cranking out a bad pilot in the end because they're more interested in their own logbook than generating the best possible product. This isn't the case of everyone but it really does show, so if you want to teach give it 100%.
To instruct or not to that is the question, depends if you have the rating or not, the type of instruction you are looking at conducting (single v. mult), on what type (single v. multi), how many hours you can expect from this rather than through a charter company, whether the school has also has an AOC for charters (the question is irrelevant in this case), and if you even need the time.
This is just a general statement but new instructors can build hours in quantity but not often quality (night, x-country, multi, ifr, float) so it depends on what your ultimate needs and goals are.
Oter advantages of instruction, it (should) keep you current on theory, regulations, techniques, can help you get noticed and depending on the school they'll usually pay to keep your license current.
Keep in mind you should teach because you want to, not soley because you want to build time, I've seen too many bad instructors do a terrible injustice to aviation by wasting a students time and money while cranking out a bad pilot in the end because they're more interested in their own logbook than generating the best possible product. This isn't the case of everyone but it really does show, so if you want to teach give it 100%.
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LostinRotation
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Cat Driver
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
People who are instructors to build time make lousy instructors.
Then why does TCCA allow pilots to start out their careers as instructors first?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat do you honestly think that a 200 hour commercial pilot just vibrating to build the next 300 hours so they can get that right seat job somewhere on the yellow brick road to the airlines will make a good instructor?
A 200 hour pilot who wants to be an instructor will make a FAR better instructor solely due to their WANTING to teach, don't you agree?
A 200 hour pilot who wants to be an instructor will make a FAR better instructor solely due to their WANTING to teach, don't you agree?
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Cat Driver
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No.Cat do you honestly think that a 200 hour commercial pilot just vibrating to build the next 300 hours so they can get that right seat job somewhere on the yellow brick road to the airlines will make a good instructor?
Possibly, but remember the main ingredient in becoming a good instructor is a natural talent for teaching and most important instilling confidence in the student.A 200 hour pilot who wants to be an instructor will make a FAR better instructor solely due to their WANTING to teach, don't you agree?
Also you must remember that my thoughts on this subject should be read with the understanding that in your country I am not considered qualified to even hold a class 4 so my opinion should be taken with that in mind.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
But more importantly, do they charge? 
Apologies for the post whoring. I want to find out what happens when I break 3,000 posts .... probably I will get this emailed to me:
http://www.stilldesigning.com/shatner/getalife_alt.htm
Apologies for the post whoring. I want to find out what happens when I break 3,000 posts .... probably I will get this emailed to me:
http://www.stilldesigning.com/shatner/getalife_alt.htm
Why is there a feeling that somhow a pilot with more flight time (ie 500 or 700 or maybe 1000 hrs) would intrinsically be a better instructor. I was taught floats by a 4khr float pilot with lots of operational experience who was just a terrible instructor. I have seen very competant instructors with very low time.
I see nothing wrong with a new comercial pilot being an instructor. An instructor being 'bad' or not can and should be traced back to the CFI and the class 1 that built this instructor.
Of course these low time instructors are building time to go on to bigger better things. There is nothing wrong with that if they are still providing quality instruction. This must be ensured by the supervising CFI.
Some people complain that these low time people will tend to milk a student for hours/money. While it is possible that this can happen, it has been my experience that a student is not an idiot. They can see very quickly when they are getting screwed.
Some people just take 100hrs to get a PPL. You do one lesson every other week this happens. I have had students start, go hard for awhile. Then take a break for the summer and start again in the fall. 60ish hours for this guy. I have had guys go hard over for two weeks and get a PPL with Float rateing in 45hrs. Not everyone was created equally.
I see nothing wrong with a new comercial pilot being an instructor. An instructor being 'bad' or not can and should be traced back to the CFI and the class 1 that built this instructor.
Of course these low time instructors are building time to go on to bigger better things. There is nothing wrong with that if they are still providing quality instruction. This must be ensured by the supervising CFI.
Some people complain that these low time people will tend to milk a student for hours/money. While it is possible that this can happen, it has been my experience that a student is not an idiot. They can see very quickly when they are getting screwed.
Some people just take 100hrs to get a PPL. You do one lesson every other week this happens. I have had students start, go hard for awhile. Then take a break for the summer and start again in the fall. 60ish hours for this guy. I have had guys go hard over for two weeks and get a PPL with Float rateing in 45hrs. Not everyone was created equally.
Wahunga!
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Cat Driver
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Maybe a better measure of the quality of instruction given by an individual who teaches flying would be the amount of money said instructor charges and gets paid?
So maybe those of you who feel you are a notch above the average should up your rates and profit from your skills?
A good instructor should be able to make at least the same amount of money per hour flown as a heavy jet Captain.
So maybe those of you who feel you are a notch above the average should up your rates and profit from your skills?
A good instructor should be able to make at least the same amount of money per hour flown as a heavy jet Captain.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
bose, I believe most all countries allow new pilots to get instructor ratings and start their career teaching.
It just seems ass backwards.
It just seems ass backwards.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
ok thanks for the answer......i was under impression that tcca does things very different or strange compared to other countries since you always get mad at tcca but now i guess it seems tcca is actually similar to most icao countries therefore maybe icao should be addressed in regards to regulations and stuff since tcca follow in the footsteps of icao....but it seems other icao places dont bother you so you dont bother them
I agree that good instructors have something special, but i would like to point out one of the first lines of the first page of the instructor rating manual from transport canada, just to make things hard for yaCat Driver wrote: Possibly, but remember the main ingredient in becoming a good instructor is a natural talent for teaching and most important instilling confidence in the student.
"No one ever learns except through their own activity and their is, strictly speaking, no such art as teaching, only the art of helping people to learn"
so while I agree transport canada does not
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Cat Driver
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Hmmmm....
Just give them the TCCA manual and an airplane and let them learn through doing.
If we examine this statement using logic and common sense one would need to ask the question.. if people learn through their own activity then why have instructors period."No one ever learns except through their own activity and their is, strictly speaking, no such art as teaching, only the art of helping people to learn"
Just give them the TCCA manual and an airplane and let them learn through doing.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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eternalhold
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:05 am
- Location: Edmonton
There is a difference between doing and teaching, you can be a great pilot but the worst instructor in the world, it's a matter of being able to explain, demonstrate and relate the information to the student in a manner they can understand.
You don't need to have thousands of hours to be a good ab-initio instructor or any type of instructor for that matter, just and understanding of where the student is, where they need to be and know what is needed to get them there (ie. How to conduct the manoeuver).
One thing we tend to forget is what is was like to be in the students place, one thing that is common sense or basic knowledge to us is usually new to them.
I've seen it happen where an instructor will get frustrated because their student should have known something without asking the questions, should they know that or have I taught that?
Bad instruction comes from the instructors inability to relate or convey the information for whatever reason, their own lack of knowledge or skill, their inattentiveness to the student or students training or lack of situational awareness.
I've seen people give up on a student when it wasn't a problem with the student but the teacher. Trying to correct individual mistakes rather than identify the fix the actual problem. "Student cannot land, another bad landing, flares too high/low, bounced another one, another lousy landing..." Trying to correct this will never happen, however by determining the student doesn't have the proper picture on final and by reviewing attitudes and movements, slow flight, and breaking the approach down to it's elements the instructor may finally get through to them. But it takes patients, dedication and the ability to realise you're not looking at the cause of the error but a symptom.
Instructing isn't easy, it takes the right person with the right attitude and if you're doing it just to get your time paid for by someone else you're doing all of us a huge injustice.
You don't need to have thousands of hours to be a good ab-initio instructor or any type of instructor for that matter, just and understanding of where the student is, where they need to be and know what is needed to get them there (ie. How to conduct the manoeuver).
One thing we tend to forget is what is was like to be in the students place, one thing that is common sense or basic knowledge to us is usually new to them.
I've seen it happen where an instructor will get frustrated because their student should have known something without asking the questions, should they know that or have I taught that?
Bad instruction comes from the instructors inability to relate or convey the information for whatever reason, their own lack of knowledge or skill, their inattentiveness to the student or students training or lack of situational awareness.
I've seen people give up on a student when it wasn't a problem with the student but the teacher. Trying to correct individual mistakes rather than identify the fix the actual problem. "Student cannot land, another bad landing, flares too high/low, bounced another one, another lousy landing..." Trying to correct this will never happen, however by determining the student doesn't have the proper picture on final and by reviewing attitudes and movements, slow flight, and breaking the approach down to it's elements the instructor may finally get through to them. But it takes patients, dedication and the ability to realise you're not looking at the cause of the error but a symptom.
Instructing isn't easy, it takes the right person with the right attitude and if you're doing it just to get your time paid for by someone else you're doing all of us a huge injustice.
