Happy Rant

[Disco Stu]

So since there seems to be an abundance of posts on here about how shitty an industry it is, and how everyone gets screwed over, I'd like to make a post on the opposite. Not as an attempt to make the unemployed and down trodden feel any worse, but maybe to spark some hope in some people.

So if you are actually enjoying your job and your career in this less than stellar industry, feel free to follow.

I have been with the same company for 3 and a half years, after leaving a ramp postion in NWOnt.

I got lucky, knew some people, and found myself tearing up the skies at 260kts in a multi-turbine with 275 hours. Now I am droning along at 175kts in my baron, M-F. The money isn't great, but it is more than enough to live on. My upgrade on the tube is coming soon (no doubt TR will have some derogatory remark in response to this) and I am having fun bombing around in the baron. The schedule is okay, the work is easier than easy, the company is great, people are great, planes are great, flying is always fun and exciting, money is good, and overall, I am very happy with the way my career is going. Moral here seems to be fairly high. We have had a fair bit of movement this year, with monthy upgrades and new hires. We have already hired 8 people this year, with more to come. That is almost as many that were hired in the 2002 and 2003 combined!

I still get giddy sometimes as I drive to work thinking that I've got the greatest job in the world. All the BS that you deal with seems to be forgotten when you strap yourself in and blast off to God know's where.

Do I sit there and trouble myself wondering where my career is going to progress from here? No, why worry myself. I am having fun now, making good $$$. The industry is very cyclic. There have been worse down times than this before, and there will be more to come. If you got into this industry expecting or even hoping for job stability, tremendous wages, and oodles of respect, well, it ain't going to happen. People like to compare us to the US, but have any of you actually looked at regional wages there? Not great.

In the meantime, I am just enjoying the view. My ulcer has never been better.

[Big_Oaf]

I think it all depends on the company you are working for. I recently moved from one charter company to its competition. The attitude here is great. I enjoy work much more and the future looks bright. As for the company I left, they seem to be spiral diving! hope they know when to level the wings and pull up.

[LT]

As for the company I left, they seem to be spiral diving! hope they know when to level the wings and pull up.

I thought the ground takes care of that?

[Panama Jack]

Do I sit there and trouble myself wondering where my career is going to progress from here? No, why worry myself.

Exactly Disco Stu. What about career progression???

Why would you want to move on???

The schedule is okay, the work is easier than easy, the company is great, people are great, planes are great, flying is always fun and exciting, money is good, and overall, I am very happy . . .

Sounds great! Stick it out to age 60!

[TopperHarley]

I also am in a very fortunate position. Since I finished my flight training in July, I have had 2 jobs. I started on dispatch at my FTU, then I got an offer with an aerial work company. I fly 3-4 days/week only and am getting 50-70 hours/month at that rate. I love the job, I only share the plane with 1 other pilot (who was also my classmate), and I didnt have to move.

[I'd Rather Be Flying]

Good on ya Disco Stu for posting some positive comments about the industry!! I am fortunate as well to be at a company where the pilots are treated fairly, pay is decent, and overall working conditions are good.

Look at it this way, be happy where you are, because things could be much, much worse. And if you're not happy, get out and do something that makes you happy. You have nobody to blame but yourself.

While there are times when things seem bleak, tomorrow is another day, and those concerns rapidly slip away as you hop into the left seat and climb into the sky.

Have fun and fly safe!!

[Mitch Cronin]

I don't get to see the sky above the skag ever anymore, but I know what it's like... You guys do have a hell of a great job!

It's good to hear some of you recognize that.

I get to play with some awesome airplanes.... like last night... I diddled with one of Boeings greatest creations while trying to find the cause of a rather ugly glitch... What a neat bird!

The rewards are many... sure, the complaints are too, but it's all what you make of it, isn't it?

Cheers,... and thanks for the positive look Disco Stu.

Griff-the-dog

[Disco Stu]

Do I sit there and trouble myself wondering where my career is going to progress from here? No, why worry myself.

Exactly Disco Stu. What about career progression???

Why would you want to move on???

The schedule is okay, the work is easier than easy, the company is great, people are great, planes are great, flying is always fun and exciting, money is good, and overall, I am very happy . . .

Sounds great! Stick it out to age 60!

I never said I don't think about my career options, I just don't worry about them. At some point I will want to move on, this isn't a career job (unless you are TR).

But as I said, right now, I am having fun and enjoying it. When that stops, THEN I will worry about what comes next.

Carpe Diem

[Wasn't Me]

I have no need to move on I'm where I want to be now. I've done most of it, been on both sides of the radio and enjoyed both sides. I now fly a little charter do a little training and every 6 months do an instructor rating just to keep the rust off. It doesn't get any better.

If you don't like what your doing don't do it.
Life has to be enjoyed along the way because once the journey ends your dead.

[. .]

sweet and juicy: Perhaps you forget what it was like to be FO sweet and juicy, or rampee sweet and juicy. Don't you remember how hard it is to say no to your boss when he's pushing you out the door. You calling these two guys flying around cowards is pure BS.

[upn@m]

cpt sj - glad i'm not you

btw- ikno you are only looking for responses and almost didnt oblige, but your outlook on life truly blows

[Panama Jack]

I never said I don't think about my career options, I just don't worry about them. At some point I will want to move on, this isn't a career job (unless you are TR).

Please Disco Stu. Define "career job." What exactly is it?

You've told us that at your current job

The schedule is okay, the work is easier than easy, the company is great, people are great, planes are great, flying is always fun and exciting, money is good, and overall, I am very happy . . .

What makes this not a "career job?" Would you not want to spend the rest of your career at a company where "The schedule is okay, the work is easier than easy, the company is great, people are great, planes are great, flying is always fun and exciting, money is good, and overall, I am very happy?" Heck, if you didn't tell me that you are flying a Baron I would have guessed that you're at Westjet, where people say more or less the same. If that is not enough to make you want to spend the rest of your working life at your current employer, at least as far as I can see, either you are not being honest with yourself or with us. . . or you are willing to risk giving it all up just to fly an airplane that burns Jet A.

[Panama Jack]

And B.T.W. cpt sweet'njuicy. very nicely said

[Shotgun Chuck McCoy]

I agree with Stu's motives for posting this thread. I agree with sweet'n'juicy's post. I like my job, but also wish some things were different. Who has the power to change it? ME. The time has long passed to accept responsibility for (y)our actions. As it has been said here before, if you don't like it, quit. Is it worth rotting inside or dying for? Only YOU can answer that.

Until then, to each their own. I like my job, and tune out other peoples' bitching. And you know what? I feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and that's all that matters.

I love you all - I love everything! One day I hope to meet all of you in person, and go mini golfing or bowling.

Goodnight, it's very late.

[KAG]

Stu, good thread. Nice to see a little optimism on here.

Yes, there are going to be things about your job that you don't like, and no Job is perfect. The grass always seems greener on the other side - but sometimes it really is. If your unhappy, or feel the operation is unsafe, find a new job. Like someone said, it’s not worth rotting on the inside over.
My present Job is sweet. I would recommend this company to anyone (who doesn’t mind rotating, and the north).

CPT Sweet and Juicy – Anyone who works at the big “P” as a rampy / co-jo and still has a good attitude, must either be a sucker for punishment with thick skin or someone who has a good attitude. I think Stu has the latter, and would therefore be an asset. I wouldn’t be so quick to “ground” someone who might not share your somewhat negative (but occasionally realistic) view on things.

Stu, I gather your enjoying 82/83? I had a fun time on it. Nice to see your time there hasn’t jaded you like so many others. Then again, I could see how it could.

Cheers

[Disco Stu]

Too many comments to respond entirely to, so I will try to cover them all with a blanket response.

Firstly, as I said in my first post, this thread isn't intended to further demoralize those that are disenchanted with the state of the industry. Maybe it will show those people that there is the occassional ray of light that breaks through the overcast. I do feel badly for those that are stuck in shitty jobs, pushing regs/equipment and working for slave wages. I through nothing other than luck, managed to avoid having to work for one of those companies. I'd like to say that if pilots were to grow some balls and stand up for themselves, that kind of thing would come to an end, but alas I know that it is not that easy. Unfortunately this is the way it has been for years, and will continue to be so. This is the nature of the beast. Stand up for yourself as much as you can, and as S&J did, leave if you don't like it. It takes balls to "fire" a company like he did, I admit. Especially now.

Never once did I say my job is perfect. It has it's share of problems, as I said, like any other company around. But we don't have to deal with many of the problems that similar sized operators deal with.

I don't feel this job is a career job because of a few reasons. As much as I try not to chase airplanes, I have aspirations of flying bigger things, seeing different places and challenging myself further. The lack of a pension is another thing. Does that mean that I can't enjoy the job I am in now? Hell no! One day at a time!

S&J, I have shared a cockpit with you enough times for you to know that I do not have a permanent grin on my face, nor do I constantly preach the praises of our company. You and I share the same cynical views on many subjects, as much as it pains me to admit. I feel there is always room for improvement, personally and professionally, within your job and outside of it. There are things I would like to see change, and we are making steps towards those things. Are we over paid? No. Are we fairly compensated? I think so. Oh, and S&J, I can't put my feet on the dash when I am reading the paper unfortunately.

KAG, I am having fun on 82/83. After 2 and a half years in the right seat, the learning curve tends to shallow out a bit. The single pilot IFR thing has been a great chance to sharpen my skill, gain confidence, and hopefully will make me a better Captain when (or if, right TR?) I move back to the turbine stuff.

2 years ago, when the industry was at a standstill, I was a much more cynical guy than I am now. Over time, I have learned to try to enjoy my job a lot more. To be greatful that I am where I am, doing what I am doing. It makes it a lot more fun to go to work. Yes, S&J, work can be fun! (and safe at the same time, imagine that!)

So flame away!

[Disco Stu]

Oh yeah, and Congrats to Paul and Jeff, the latest rampies to be added to the list of FOs.

10 new hires in 9 months, hopefully more to come!

[Panama Jack]

disco stu, I don't see it as my mission in life to throw turds into your punchbowl, despite all evidence to the contrary, however, you might want to do a reality check of what the future in the industry looks like these days.

As much as I try not to chase airplanes, I have aspirations of flying bigger things, seeing different places and challenging myself further. The lack of a pension is another thing.

Mind if I ask if you are married or have children? After a while, the big airplane envy and travel lust take a back seat to the mortgage and spending time with the kids.

As far as the lack of pension. . . take a look at what is happening in the airline industry these days. Pensions are being axed. Air Canada nearly went over the cliff a few months ago about this very issue, US Airways has made it clear that they will gut their pension plan and Delta Airlines sees it's senior pilots I grabbing parachutes to take an early retirement before the airline goes into Chapter 11 and guts their pension plan.

Many of the current low cost airlines don't even have a pension plan, and it is conceivable that in the future this won't even be part of an employment gig for airline employees. So get use to contributing to your RRSP and many get some investments going on the side, because RRSP contribution limits in Canada are low, and unless you want to move in with your offspring after retirement you're going to have to get creative.

But all of this is a non-issue for someone like yourself perhaps. However, you can appreciate the crankiness of many airline employees who signed collective agreements in the past in which they counted on a pension plan plus wages as part of the total package, who are now being told that what they worked so hard for is going Tango Uniform-- and maybe they get to keep a job if they are lucky. A few months ago I met an Air Canada flight attendant, who had some 30 years of service and was two years away from being eligible for retirement clearly nervous if the company and the pension plan we would be a part of would still be around by next month.

Many pilots are tired of facing constant demands for increased productivity while having their already low wages rolled back, the lack of workplace continuity, having their good will taken advantage all in the absence of even a modicum of employment security in both present and future prospects.

By the way, allow me to clarify that I too have a job that I like, the money is excellent as well as the people. However, I am disappointed seeing that the industry that I have been a part of is slowly falling apart by the seams, and that although I have a good job, I also don't have many alternatives. Even during more prosperous times, a pilot's home life was limited-- how many airline pilots do you know of who are divorced or on second or third marriages?

As far as "go do something else," I know a number of colleagues and I would like to go back to school to get an MBA or study law, however, the economic and time commitments are significant-- some $20K USD for an MBA, plus cost of living, plus time from work . . . unless of course you do it by correspondence which reduces some of these costs. B.T.W., I don't have a pension plan either, or medical, or loss of licence insurance. "Love it or leave it," I guess.

Hope this helps explain why a number of pilots are fairly cranky and irritable these days.

[. ._]

It's not just pilots that are losing pensions, working more for less, or getting divorced. It's everyone. So, if you're gonna be screwed by the MAN, might as well have fun flying a plane. IMHO. Or would you rather work tarring a roof? Teaching grade 10? Work in a mine, or on top of an oil rig for 14 hours straight at -40? ... I didn't think so.

Flying is fun, and some lucky people get paid to do it.

I hope I can be lucky one day.

-istp

[Panama Jack]

It's not just pilots that are losing pensions, working more for less, or getting divorced. It's everyone. So, if you're gonna be screwed by the MAN, might as well have fun flying a plane. IMHO. Or would you rather work tarring a roof? Teaching grade 10? Work in a mine, or on top of an oil rig for 14 hours straight at -40? ... I didn't think so.

Flying is fun, and some lucky people get paid to do it.

I hope I can be lucky one day.

-istp

If you are teaching Grade 10 and get fired, you don't necessarily have to start teaching at the Kindergarden level at your next job if you get my drift. You might well be able to get a job teaching Grade 10 at another school and even with a raise.

Rather work tarring a roof? No, sorry, not to snub these hardworking individuals or to sound pompous, but with Bachelor degree that's a little below my education level or career expectations. But most roof tarrers (whatever their title is) or roughnecks on oil rigs didn't invest nearly $100K in their training either. Maybe you went through the Air Force or hat a wealthy uncle pay for all of your training, however for me, after an investment of that scale, I don't consider myself "lucky" or even grateful to be paid to fly. . . I expect nothing less and I am not ashamed to say it either!!!

[merlin]

The aviation industry isn't what it was 30 years ago.... People need to realize that and just except it, because there are not going to be any big changes in the near future.

However, when the average income in canada is somewhere around $33,000 a year(I think, I could be wrong), flying for a living is still a pretty sweet job if you ask me. Yes there are the downs and ups, but that is with pretty much everthing. You just have to figure out if the ups are more than the downs for you personal. For me I don't care if I ever get rich flying, I'm rich because I never have a day that seems like real work. It is like they say "find something you enjoy doing and you won't have to work a day in your life".

If would have been nice if someone had been honest with me about the state of the industry when I was first starting out, but to tell the truth I'm sure it wouldn't have stopped me from chasing the dream job.

[neverever]

I've had the fortune (or misfortune) to work in a lot of industries, including tarring roofs and the oil patch (with the BS degree as well PJ ), and without a doubt aviation has the most whiners.

Good attitude D-stu. What's the matter with you guys?