Yet another logging question

No Brakes · Post by **No Brakes** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:39 am

I searched but couldn't find anything....

Got into a friendly argument with a friend about logging time on ferries/positioning flights on a multi-engine airplane in a 703 op... I say you have to have a ppc but he says that it's okay since when you're positioning/ferrying, you're considered "private" therefore you don't need a ppc. I say bullshit. Did I win a buck?

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:13 pm

CAR 704.108 (6): An air operator may permit a person to act and a person may act as a flight crew member in an aircraft where the person does not meet the requirements of paragraphs (1)(b) to (d), if

(a) the aircraft is operated on a training, ferry or positioning flight;

But I couldnt find a similar statement for 703 regs.

HuD 91gt · Post by **HuD 91gt** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:23 pm

I believe you lost a dolla

bater · Post by **bater** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:23 pm

my vote: No PPC OR PCC required.... all is needed is a Multi endorsement, and IFR if you're going that way.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:16 pm

Pay the friend. Done all the time. It is a non-revenue flight.

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:58 pm

I believe that you can also fly a large aircraft that normally requires a type endorsement providing that no passengers are carried.

The insurance company might not like it though.

Pilatusable · Post by **Pilatusable** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:12 pm

So if I sit right seat on a freight trip in a PC12, can I log the time? I have a CPL and instrument rating, but no PCC.

man · Post by **man** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:21 pm

PC12 is not a designated 2 crew aircraft by TC.
An you don't have a company SOP that says you have to operate it 2 crew, so I think no.

Pilatusable · Post by **Pilatusable** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:28 pm

It's operated 2 crew with pax, but single pilot with freight. Occasionally, freight flights are done with 2 crew, so would that mean the f.o. shouldn't log the time because the plane is in single pilot operation as per the S.O.P?

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:41 pm

Read the AIM LRA 3.7.3, Here it is

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publ ... htm#3-7-3

Then go ahead and log it as dual tiime. All the rest of the discussion, ie PPC, PCC, no PPC PCC, pax no pax, part 7, part 6 and so on are not mentioned in this publication and simply are red herrings here.

Pilatusable · Post by **Pilatusable** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:37 am

Hmm, the way that reads it sounds like I can definately log it as dual. Looking further into this...

Mrs.Robinson · Post by **Mrs.Robinson** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:43 pm

you can log anything you want, hell why don't you put some space shuttle time in your logbook. If you are getting trained and the air operator is aware maybe trainsport won't nail ya. If you have 50 hours dual of pc12 time, I would verify every hour once it comes time for your ATPL.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:21 pm

Mrs.Robinson wrote:you can log anything you want, hell why don't you put some space shuttle time in your logbook. If you are getting trained and the air operator is aware maybe trainsport won't nail ya. If you have 50 hours dual of pc12 time, I would verify every hour once it comes time for your ATPL.

Of course, as stated in the applicable AIM entry, most of this time cannot be counted towards an ATPL.

If you have 50Hrs of dual PC12 time, why not put iin your logbook. Just be clear in the comments that it was dual famil time. A logbook is a record of experience. What is wrong with logging some of the Dual IFR experience gained? The regs say you can.

As for space shuttle time, well, I would say that if you are there logging time is no longer a big deal to you. Unless of course that this was a weak attempt at sarcasm. That we do not need.

Mrs.Robinson · Post by **Mrs.Robinson** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:43 pm

Just sitting in the right seat is not experience. Why not log flight sim time, you could just put an entry in the logbook. Now if the pilot in question is at the controls that is a different story. I don't know of many COM's that allow passengers to fly aircraft (If anyone on the fourm is allowed by there COM's to allow passengers to fly, let me know).

Spokes wrote
Read the AIM LRA 3.7.3, Here it is

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/pub ... tm#3-7-3

Then go ahead and log it as dual tiime.

The AIM does not allow you to do anything, it is not the regulations.
Unless of course that this was a weak attempt at sarcasm. That we do not need.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:52 pm

It all depends on exactly what the pilot wishing to log time was doing.

If said pilot was actually hands on flying and being given dual form the PIC then the training is every bit as genuine as any other training.

It is hard to beat learning from someone with experience.

Now as to logging time towards a higher license that is another subject.

However you are feee to write anything you wish in your own personal log book.

It makes a perfect place to keep track of your trap line because it is unlikely your wife will ever read your log book.