Hijabs and airport security

[the_professor]

Why is it that when travelling through airport security, males are required to remove their hats (baseball caps or otherwise) even if the metal detecting wand does not sound when passed overtop, and yet women wearing hijabs (Muslim headscarves) are not required to do the same?

Virtually every single terrorist attack against the west has been perpetrated by Muslims, and yet we are checking acne-ridden 22yr old white males' heads and not those of Muslim women??

This makes a lot of f'ing sense, doesn't it? Score another victory for political correctness, and another loss for rational security measures that might actually protect us from another attack.

[mayfleur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

"Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001), commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City bomber, was convicted of eleven federal offenses and ultimately executed as a result of his role in the April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City bombing. The bombing, which claimed 168 lives, was the deadliest act of terrorism in U.S. history until the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center in New York, and remains the deadliest incident of domestic terrorism in United States history."

[Dex]

So far that makes it:
young white males 1
Female Muslims 0

[the_professor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

"Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001), commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City bomber, was convicted of eleven federal offenses and ultimately executed as a result of his role in the April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City bombing. The bombing, which claimed 168 lives, was the deadliest act of terrorism in U.S. history until the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center in New York, and remains the deadliest incident of domestic terrorism in United States history."

You'll note I said "virtually every" attack. I specifically had McVeigh in mind when I phrased it that way.

The Muslim terrorists haven't used women ---- yet.

Let's not pretend that Muslims are not a greater threat to aviation security than white males. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is a fool.

[shitdisturber]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

"Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001), commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City bomber, was convicted of eleven federal offenses and ultimately executed as a result of his role in the April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City bombing. The bombing, which claimed 168 lives, was the deadliest act of terrorism in U.S. history until the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center in New York, and remains the deadliest incident of domestic terrorism in United States history."

You'll note I said "virtually every" attack. I specifically had McVeigh in mind when I phrased it that way.

The Muslim terrorists haven't used women ---- yet.












Let's not pretend that Muslims are not a greater threat to aviation security than white males. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is a fool.

Actually there have been a number of suicide bombers in Israel and Iraq that have been females; so it's a valid concern.

[niss]

Ya I was about to say, there are pleanty of female terrorists in Israel par example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XEkJY62VA

[mayfleur]

I'm not arguing about who should or who shouldn't be checked. I just had a problem with professors original statement.
If anybody should be left alone it's the little old grammas who get the full treatment, some who don't even know where they are going.
hmmm....
maybe they should be carefully checked.

[Glen Quagmire]

Let's not pretend that Muslims are not a greater threat to aviation security

This is ignorant and inflammatory, there is a difference between a Muslim and a Terrorist who is Muslim just as there is a difference between a New York born white male and Timothy McVeigh.

That being said I do agree to some sort of profiling when it comes to airport screening, there is certainly no need to pull the pregnant womans clothing out of her suitcase or take away the 85 year olds denture paste. The fact of the matter is that Bin Laden and the boys have made life a lot harder for your average law abiding Muslim man. While we shouldn't feel bad or apologetic about that we don't need to be assholes about it either and brand all Muslims terrorists.

[Dex]

There should be standard checks for everyone as they pass by, unless there is reason for further checks. Policy should dictate this. Once you start profiling based on race, sex, religion etc, you leave a big hole to be exploited by your enemy. Just because it would be inconceivable to you that a young white boy would blow up a plane does not mean it couldn't, wouldn't happen; even in the name of Islam. Before 911 it was inconceivable to the majority of the population that Saudi terrorists could hijack a plane with box cutters and fly the plane into the towers.

[niss]

Take a look at how EL AL handles their security. Its quite effective. Also they stopped an (I believe Irish) lady from coming on the plane. It turned out her arab finacé packed explosives in her backpack. I wonder how that relationship ended.

[Glen Quagmire]

Before 911 it was inconceivable to the majority of the population that Saudi terrorists could hijack a plane with box cutters and fly the plane into the towers.

Well it shouldn't have been such a surprise considering the Aug 2001 memo which stated "Bin Laden determined to strike in the U.S" and "FBI information indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings". Had this been taken seriously and security tightened 9/11 may have never occurred.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terr ... 01pdb.html

While I disagree with straight up racial profiling there needs to be a more systematic approach to airport screening. I can guarantee you that no 80+ year old grandma or some seriously pregnant Latino woman will ever blow up an airplane, never going to happen. You are kidding yourself if you think we have a rock solid security system in place at the moment anyhow, the only thing I know for sure when people get on my airplane is that no one has a coffee.

http://www.airportsecurityblog.com/

Security confiscated 100% of all coffee's/drinks but missed 90% of all bombs and weapons in random tests throughout major U.S. airports.

[grimey]

The Muslim terrorists haven't used women ---- yet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5810127/

[grimey]

Take a look at how EL AL handles their security. Its quite effective. Also they stopped an (I believe Irish) lady from coming on the plane. It turned out her arab finacé packed explosives in her backpack. I wonder how that relationship ended.

EL AL has security like that because they need it. Most other airlines don't, and most passengers on other airlines are fed up enough with the delays that already exist at the airport. Of course, most of the current delays at those other airlines are caused by stupid, inoffensive security measures that won't work (do not fly lists, the war on moisture, etc), rather that the smart, but somewhat politically incorrect measures used by EL AL which do work (racial profiling, complete baggage searches, passenger interviews, armed uniformed air marshals, etc), but that's not the point. Many of the measures already used by other airlines simply arn't required because the security risk is relatively low. But they have to show that they care about your safety, so on with the useless theater act.

[corporate joe]

The tighter airline security gets, the tighter my schedule gets

[pika]

I wonder how that relationship ended.

With a, get ready for it...bang?

[saucer_driver]

[quote]The Muslim terrorists haven't used women ---- yet.[/quote]

They are probably waiting until there are no more female virgins left in the heavens......hehe

[2R]

Strip search everyone regardless of race religion age sex make everyone bend over and sing the national anthym.Just to show how we are winning the war on terror

Did anyone really expect that draft dodgers would have any chance of winning any war ???
Gutless spineless creatures always lose .
If you think searching my bag in candybar is going to win you a war on the other side of the world you are dead wrong

[the_professor]

I just had a problem with professors original statement.

My original statement explicitly left open the possibility of non-Muslim terrorists by qualifying my statement with the word "virtually". There was no need to provide the McVeigh example, as I was not denying that McVeigh types exist. We shouldn't only be checking the McVeighs at the airport, and yet that's exactly what I saw recently -- twice.

[the_professor]

While I disagree with straight up racial profiling there needs to be a more systematic approach to airport screening.

Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Are you telling me we shouldn't therefore be paying extra attention to Saudi Arabians? Because as things stand today, we waste time screening Swedes when we should be looking at Saudis instead.

[the_professor]

Well it shouldn't have been such a surprise considering the Aug 2001 memo which stated "Bin Laden determined to strike in the U.S" and "FBI information indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings". Had this been taken seriously and security tightened 9/11 may have never occurred.

One thing that is never mentioned in reference to the oft-quoted statement above, is how many similar warnings had they received or flagged in the 12-24 months leading up to 9/11, which ended up resulting in nothing? It is impossible to avoid complacency of the kind that contributed to 9/11, because otherwise we'd be shutting down half the country every day in response to the numerous bogus or suspected threats that are out there at any given time.

[the_professor]

While we shouldn't feel bad or apologetic about that we don't need to be assholes about it either and brand all Muslims terrorists.

We don't need to be assholes, but at the same time we don't need to be idiots. If we're going to go through the farce of making people remove their hats at the airport even when the metal detector has not sounded, then we should at least ask the same of any woman of any race or creed who has her head covered -- and especially women who are openly identifying themselves as followers of the religion that has been used as the excuse in virtually every aviation-related aggressive act in history.

Anything less is not racist, but sexist in fact. Anything less simply does not make sense.

[niss]

That being said I do agree to some sort of profiling when it comes to airport screening, there is certainly no need to pull the pregnant womans clothing out of her suitcase or take away the 85 year olds denture paste.

The fact is that the most innocent looking ones make the best bombs.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/870671.html#resp

Shin Bet: 2 female suicide bombers caught on way to attack

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent

The Shin Bet security service revealed Wednesday that it successfully curbed a double suicide attack planned for Tel Aviv and Netanya by the Islamic Jihad.

According to the Shin Bet, two women from the Gaza Strip were arrested who were supposed to carry out the attack.

The two women, mothers to young children, were arrested at the Erez checkpoint on May 20, while attempting to enter Israel.

One of the women, a 30-year-old mother of four, requested permission from Israel to reach Ramallah, falsely claiming she needed medical care. Her aunt, a 39-year-old mother of eight who was pregnant, was supposed to accompany her to treatment in Ramallah.

The Shin Bet maintains that the two were due to meet with an Islamic Jihad militant in Ramallah, who was supposed to give them explosive belts and take them to their destined locations inside Israel.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/113967

April 17, 1986 - Anne Murphy, a pregnant Irishwoman, caught at London's Heathrow airport carrying a bomb in a false-bottomed bag aboard an El Al jumbo jet carrying 375 people. She had been given the bomb without her knowledge by a man subsequently linked to Syrian intelligence. He was jailed for 45 years.

In fact a popular way of getting the explosives to their destination is to wrap them around a womans stomach so it looks like shes pregnant, and then God forbid people passing through checkpoints are asked to remove their clothing.

[CID]

The truth of the matter is that historically when ball-cap wearing white boys are involved in terrorist activities it gets brushed aside because it detracts from the general white/Judeo-Christian agenda that dark skinned non-Jew/Christians are evil and dangerous.

White Christians throughout history were apparently just spreading “truth” and morality when they slaughtered various cultures. The crusades weren’t “terrorism”.

In Northern Ireland, all those red haired freckled faced boys were at least identified correctly as “terrorists” but you didn’t suddenly see people get jumpy when some “Irish” looking guy sat next to them on a plane.

The KKK spread terror throughout North America but they didn’t wear hijabs and they looked like any average western European so they couldn’t have been terrorists right?

David Koresh was just a simple minister but he amassed more guns and ammo than some small countries had. I’m sure we’d all have no problem sitting next to a guy that looked like that right?

How about the Mafia? Just simple misunderstood Italian business men right? If an Italian dude went through security they would probably make the poor guy take off his fedora right?

And don't even get me started with Israelis. They have developed terror into an art form. They have learned that if you control the media you can call terror "retaliation" and "aggression" just turns into "occupation" and "invasion" is just "settling".

This entire thread is born from racial intolerance and not outrage from unfair treatment. I don't blame the initiator directly. We are bombarded daily with anti-Arab propaganda by the highly controlled media in the US and even here in Canada. We are made to believe incorrectly that all the woes in the world are the responsibility of Arab Muslims.

I don’t see a problem with people being asked to remove head gear within reason and I don’t see a problem with showing a little respect and tolerance for other cultures by introducing a rather small security risk. After all I believe everyone still has to pass through the metal detector.

If you think you absolutely need to have your hat on at all times to hide your “sex machine solar collector” or you really think this is an issue that needs to be dealt with, then go ahead and complain. It’s your right. Just make sure you include dew-rags, head bands, visors and wigs.

Personally I have no problem sharing an airplane with a person who appears to be of middle eastern heritage. No more than sharing it with a Christian, a Jew, a Irish person, activists, clergy, or a nice Italian gentleman. After all, they all have the same potential to cause me harm. But those nice white ball cap wearing boys are all saints. Right?

[the_professor]

This entire thread is born from racial intolerance and not outrage from unfair treatment.

Wrong. It is born out of a distaste for procedures that favour politcal correctness over simple logic.

I don’t see a problem with people being asked to remove head gear within reason and I don’t see a problem with showing a little respect and tolerance for other cultures by introducing a rather small security risk. After all I believe everyone still has to pass through the metal detector.

[Emphasis mine]

I can't be reading this correctly. Are you saying that we should knowingly increase the risk to an aircraft in order to avoid offending those who choose to wear a hijab? Please tell me that was either mistyped or said in jest?

[corporate joe]

This entire thread is born from racial intolerance and not outrage from unfair treatment. I don't blame the initiator directly.

Good post. Even though I believe most people on this forum already realize what you are saying, it still needs to be repeated once in a while for the minority who can't nuance their reality.

As far the as the "initiator" of the post, unlike you I blame the "poster" directly. All one needs to do is read his other rants/comments. This poster has demonstrated immunity to reason and fact, as well as a simple narrow mind that categorizes and discriminates purely on personal opinions and biased misinformation. The same type of rational that has (and will) plague humanity since the begining of times.
This is our home grown Canadian version of the extremists who blow themselves up in the middle east; Incapable of nuancing their actions and reality, prone to categorize everything, and so omnibulated by their own made up truths that no fact or argument can dissuade them.

Again, the irony that the things they hate so much, are in reality things that are very similar to their own persona.