Float Rating or Instructor

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:36 pm

Float rating or instructor? Pro's and con's would be nice.

Cheers mates

LT · Post by LT » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:39 am

3k for floats

8k for instructor

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:17 am

LT wrote: 8k for instructor

You're kidding right? That's the most ridiculous price I've heard of.

Try about half that at most.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:20 am

LT's close.

Dual: $145*30 = 4350
Ground: $45*25=1125
Tests $450
Tax $890

TOTAL: $6815 Minimum if the school doesn't rip you off, and you can do it in the minimum time.

No Conflict · Post by **No Conflict** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:23 am

Actually, a Class IV rating, including flight training, ground training and misc. materials will run you about 6000-7000$.

just my 2 cents

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:23 am

3k for floats...but WAY more (6 - 8k probably, depending on machine) if you want to do a 50 hour program.

5k is more reasonable for an instructor rating.

Floats are about the most fun you can have in an airplane...but the basic rating isn't gonna get you a job at most places. Go for the 50 (IMHO) and you'll have a better chance to get a float job.

As far as instructing goes, that's the route I went. Don't expect to log quite as many hours (depending on the operator), and don't expect to make the "big bucks" right away. That being said, if you enjoy teaching it can be a very "satisfying" way to get your career started. And if you go the instructing route, make sure you ask about employment opportunities where you do the rating. A lot of schools only hire individuals that train at their school.

Good luck, and if you have any Q's about instructing, PM me.

Pugster

jimdandy · Post by **jimdandy** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:16 pm

If you get the instructor rating, your gonna log some time. As far as the float rating, I really like flying floats and feel it was a well worth investment. Some guys may hire you with 50hrs, but some have told me that in a real operation that 50hrs is less than a months worth of flying experince

Most float drivers are login 100hrs plus in the busy season. The other side of the coin is they may stick you on the dock, telling you that you'll be flying sometime in the future.

Its a hard decision to make.
Good Luck

4green · Post by **4green** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:46 pm

the rub lies in that many float operators are being slapped with higher mins these days (250 hrs on floats ins't all that uncommon) so nowadays it's more a case of getting a float rating/50 hours and then working the dock whilst building the rest of the hours over the course of a season. as opposed to getting an instr rating and getting three students dropped in your lap straight away.

that being said, flying floats isn't so much a means to and end as it is a disease. given the challenges and conditions, it's the best flying i've ever done. over the course of the day i'll depart a lake uncontrolled ifr and into the country's busiest airport, fly a vfr load or two in another type and do some float instruction(but i don't have an instructor rating) to round things off. put in over 14 hrs of duty yesterday and 6 hrs of flying/day is the norm in the busy season (that's 10ish flights/day on avg). did 100hrs each month this season and didn't have time to spend any money, can't ask for much more! some places keep drivers on year round but being seasonal, myself, means i get to hibernate in the winter and actually make some money.

R580XD · Post by **R580XD** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:04 pm

My Instructor rating ran me in the $6000 area, I contimplated the float option as well...

Insurance on float planes is way outta control now... I know of companies who want 300+ just for a 206 or 185

The instructor route... better chance initially to get you flying, but just like the float rating, just because you got your rating doesn't mean you're gonna get hired unfortuneatley... I was promised this and that only to have everyone else hired. But that opened another door, and luckily I wasn't hired there or I wouldn't have the job I have now... kinda funny how the cards land

LT · Post by LT » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:28 pm

http://www.ofc.ca/class4.htm

$5,900

http://www.bramfly.com/fcentre/ratings.htm#Instructor

$6,900

Fine.. So 7,000, but it'll balloon to $8,000.

I'd pay $10,000 if they promised to take you onboard after the training....

**

http://www.bramfly.com/fcentre/ratings.htm#Sea

$1,900 For the Floats.

So I was close, 2k vs 7k...

But they're both just ratings without a job.. Floats would be good to do it now, since you still have the fall.. Once we hit winter your s.o.l you won't be marketable for the float operators...

Instructor, well it's good all year long, and it'll be double the bill..

As for the 50hr program.. LoL that's $10k

http://www.parallelaviation.com/float.html

But, yeah.. Best of luck with whichever option you go with..

joe to go · Post by **joe to go** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:50 pm

Well i did both, the 50 hour float and the instructor rating. This was back when everyone was told that 50 hours was all you needed for insurance reasons. But as stated above, many operators want more. The instructor rating ran me about 5000-6000. If you can find people to do the groundschool with you for the instructor rating , it will really cut down on the cost. And do it in a 152. As well, research the schools you are going to. Typically, they will hire people that did their instructor rating with them so find a school with movement and possibility for work. In my opinion, which probably doesn't matter, i would do the instructor rating. I personally think i wasted 9000 dollars for the float thing, although i did manage to get a float job (instructing at the same time) i did find it a waste of money. Insurance is too high for a low time float pilot. But the bottom line lies with you. What do you want to do? I was one of those people that said that they would never be an instructor. I talked to everone in Canada, sent out resumes, met people, and still, nothing. I did my instructor rating and got a job right away. One other thing that you must look at is the company you want to work for. i wouldn't recommend taking an instructor rating at a place where the biggest thing that you could fly is a 172. Look for companies that have a charter department attached, where there is a possibility for upgrades to turbine/jet A/C eventually. Just my thoughts.

Joe

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:25 am

My 2 cents:

Get the float rating and head out into the real world! Pack your car, head up North, and don't look back!

OK, float operators will laugh at your 6hrs dual and 1hr solo on floats, but you'll be 7hrs closer to a job up there than the dozens of guys up North without without the rating!

A ramp job for a small operator will turn into something!

G

PS float flying is the greatest flying I have ever done!!

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:35 pm

Just my 2 cents worth...but
Did somebody say "you still have the fall"?? No you dont! Summer's over dude...OVER!
Now, if you think you'd be happy doing either...and that's the trick here..the float side of things will have you on the dock for a summer, maybe two. The instructor side will get you into an airplane..albeit, not much of an airplane...right now.
The trick here is to take your instructor trainning somwhere that WILL hire you. You're investing a hell of a lot of money with a flight school, and they'd be wise to hire you...or you'll spend all that cash down the road. You should really go into it with this goal in mind.
Somebody mentioned insurance....bloody criminals if you ask me...a licence to steal...and typically something our government...who voted for these morons?...wont touch! Anyhoooo, insurance IS the biggest single stumbling block to the new float pilot. That, and the simple fact that the new float pilot knows not his ass from his head...just like the new instructor....but that's a different story!
Here's another thought....most (read all) float jobs are in the north, out of touch with the industry...while most instructor jobs are where the "action" is. ie. where the hiring is going on..and things are moving...so for my buck...right now,at this time in aviation, I'd tend to go the instructor route.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:37 pm

LT wrote:I'd pay $10,000 if they promised to take you onboard after the training....

So you'd be willing to pay more than required to guarantee yourself a job?

Kinda like paying for a PPC don't ya think?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:38 pm

I think it is really hard to say one route is better than the other. You have to figure out for you personal what workes best and what you want to do.

Juat food for thought, I'm noticing more and more now that there seems to be a lot of guys with 2000-4000 hrs(a lot of it float time) that can't fine year round work. Also, it seems like it is very hard to get into the Multi-IFR stuff for people with a lot of float time(all VFR single for the most part). So I would tend to avoid the float flying unless that is something you want to make a career out of, or something you just really want to do.

It also seems like there is less and less of the anti-instuctor attitude from CP now. So if you want to stay down south, instucting is the way to go. If you instruct you might start flying sooner, but probably not much and the pay will probably be very little. Over a 3-5 year time the guy who instructed and the guy who worked the ramp will be in the same place for the most part.

More food for thought. I know a number of guys who paid the $7000 and instructed for a couple years and then still ended up way up north in some sh*thole town trying to move up to the next step.

LT · Post by LT » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:02 pm

Disco Stu wrote:
LT wrote:I'd pay $10,000 if they promised to take you onboard after the training....
So you'd be willing to pay more than required to guarantee yourself a job?

Kinda like paying for a PPC don't ya think?

LoL.. Sorta, but no. You can rent a C150 from a pvt pilot at 40/hr and get a class one for $30/hr..

So an instructor rating could cost you $2,000, if you do it like that but since most flight schools do hire the people they train you're obviously not going to be hired anywhere, you'll cut down your employablity...

Or you can go to a busy flight school like Toronto Airways and if they promise you a job after your training, you'll probably end up spending $3-$4,000 more because they're already an expensive outfit.

See, you can't "shop around" for a deal if you're planning to get hired from the flight school that trains you.. Because they can't train you if you go for the "deal" elsewhere, so they won't hire you...

Did somebody say "you still have the fall"?? No you dont! Summer's over dude...OVER!

Oh, well next beaver I see flying over my house 2mrw, I'll be shooting out of the sky, I'll pass on the msg.. "Hey arsehole the summer is over, no more flying floats!"..

He has the fall to get his float rating.. Only a moron would wait till next summer to get their float rating when the operators would have already done their hiring..

He can either do his float rating _now_ and hope for a job for next spring summer and fall..

Or he can take your sound advice and wait till next summer to get his float rating and he can wait another 365 days to get a job...

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:13 am

C'mon L.T.....youre a bright guy. You know I ment that summer was over as far as getting a job goes..not that you couldn't get a float rating in the fall! Of course, the fall is the time to get the float thinggy....but, it'll only lead to a really poor winter as far as your bank accoung goes. Then, MAYBE a job on a dock next summer...if you're real lucky.
Or you could spend thousands of dollars on a multi-ifr, so you can be a bloody slave on the ramp for an operator, in say, Pickle Lake? And MAYBE, if you dont piss anybody off (like I always do..LOL)get to fly right seat in an airplane that dosen't even need someone in the right seat.
Sure gladd I'm not starting out in this industry...we eat our young!

Powell887 · Post by **Powell887** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:38 am

Can't give any advice on the instructor rating portion but I did my 7 hour float rating for exactly $1134.00 at the Elmhirst Resort on Rice Lake (included TC fee)...All your training is on a PA-12 (well-maintained) and your instructor is an experienced 4000 hours on floats.

I am just finishing my IFR and hitting it up north to Yellowknife for a few years....I think it will be more rewarding than instructing...keep in mind I don't have job lined up yet but it will be all worth it starting out in the perpetual "bush," even if I have to work at Subway or Boston Pizza for a few months before hand!

here is the link if anyone wants to check it out:
http://www.elmhirst.com/air.php

I found it well worth the time (only took 2 days and there is cheap campsites just down the road)

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:54 am

You can join the Dryden Flying Club and rent their PA-12 on floats to get a float endorsement for $150.00 per hour. The beauty of this is that with a minimum of 10 hours dual you can then rent it solo and log 50 hours at $100 per hour. You would have 50 hours on floats for the same price as an instructors rating.

There are also other float planes around that a guy could possibly buy some time on.

LT · Post by LT » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:20 pm

Doc wrote:C'mon L.T.....youre a bright guy. You know I ment that summer was over as far as getting a job goes.

but, it'll only lead to a really poor winter as far as your bank accoung goes

Sorry Doc.. =( I didn't read who posted the comments. It was late.. =(

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.. But the floats are the cheapest way to go...

CLguy wrote:The beauty of this is that with a minimum of 10 hours dual you can then rent it solo and log 50 hours at $100 per hour.

Not to sound prickish/lazy.. You don't happen to have a link for them, do you? That almost beats outback, unless you pay for your own insurance there too, in which case nvm..

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:07 am

LT they do not have a website. It is a private club that is not into flight training. They offer low cost/econmical flying for their members. It will cost you about a $100 membership per year and that allows you all the privledges of any other member. One is being able to rent the PA-12 on floats in the summer and skiis in the winter for an excellent price. You have to be recommended by an existing member but I have never seen anyone denied yet.

The float training and checkouts are done by club approved check pilots who are experienced bush pilots from the area.

It is just an option for someone wanting to build float time.

LT · Post by LT » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:49 pm

Dryden Flying Club...

Okay, I'll look them up in the yellowpages(phone book).. *hopes they have their number listed*

Well at $100/hr, that's a really nice deal. When compared to the "50 hr build time schools" charging $185 and up an hour.