Jazz Resume File shortage

one8tee · Post by **one8tee** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:43 pm

Awesome Rigpiggy.. I suppose with only three posts I have a bit more time on my hands to go get credible sources- instead of posting BS hundreds of times...[/quote]

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:54 pm

Actually, one,

Having gone through the process recently, I expect that changing hiring criteria at Jazz became an SMS issue, and thus would take a lengthy process to change.

one8tee · Post by **one8tee** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:54 pm

jc, Lets be realistic here.. is a pilot with 1000 hrs of 152 photo-flying experience really "safer" than a 250 hr wonder with common sense and good trainability? Jazz is going to hold ALL it's pilots to the same training standards. The only thing hiring "minima" is for is to sort through the resumes and cut them down to a number that can actually be looked through/ invited for interviews etc. I am absolutely sure Jazz is hiring the person not the hours- and with the right person safety will be learned easily.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:56 pm

tonysoprano wrote:Kag.
I have to agree. AC should hire mostly from Jazz. Still, I don't think Jazz people who are happy to be there appreciate your comments. I know you're HAPPY now, but believe it or not, others can be just as HAPPY. Just because things didn't work out for you at mainline doesn't mean you have to be-little Jazz. Haven't we been through this already? Jazz people are happy too. What's best is they don't have to go looking for lost wallets or put crying babies to sleep or be HAPPY owners to prove it like you have to. KAG, we know you're HAPPY, the fact is, we don't care.

WTF are you talking about? belittling Jazz in what way?
Jazz is a good stepping stone, as a young, newly hired pilot, get your experience and leave. It's not the life time job it once was. The pay is low, the upgrade (to good pay) retarded, and hence a good stepping stone.
I don't see any be littleling there. Just telling it like it is. And as for getting the PFO from AC, Believe it or not, at this point I really couldn't give a sh!t. As I said before, it was a great primer for the WJ interview

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:33 pm

And as for getting the PFO from AC, Believe it or not, at this point I really couldn't give a sh!t. As I said before, it was a great primer for the WJ interview

.....gee, I would say you took the rejection rather well.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:26 pm

tonysoprano wrote:
And as for getting the PFO from AC, Believe it or not, at this point I really couldn't give a sh!t. As I said before, it was a great primer for the WJ interview
.....gee, I would say you took the rejection rather well.

yes I'm so disapointed to miss out on working with dinks like you...now where's my koolaid.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:11 am

KAG.
I think you've been into the Tealaid a little too much. You've been there what, a couple of months? Sounds like you're a changed man already, KAG. You're supposed to be Happy now not stressed. Working with dinks like me? Well, in reality it's not the way you describe it but again I think we can attribute that to the juice they're feeding you. I think you were drinking it while still at Jazz, eh. Anyway, I still say Jazz are hiring a fine group of people who have the choice of using it as a "stepping stone" or staying there for good. Wasn't your idea of a long term plan, doesn't mean it won't be for others. Kag, relax and again congrats on your new job.

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:48 pm

Tony.

It is easy for you to judge people like KAG while sitting high on AC flying your 767 and making six figures. But put yourself in his shoes for a moment. Your flying for Jazz. You would love to fly for AC, you get the interview and then get turned down, why.........I don't know, maybe you are not AC material like many other good people at Jazz who got turned down by AC, go figure. The management comes up with a memo saying OOPS, sorry guys we are paying you too much. then WJ calls, realizes you are actually a good guy and offers you a job. What do you do?

Suck it up at Jazz living paycheque to paycheque while some six sigma black belt is pulling 6-7 figure bonuses. And then get screwed by both companies come 2009.

Wait for AC to start interviewng Jazz pilots again, hoping that maybe this time they will hire you. So you start all over again on the very bottom of the list a AC only ro get screwed again in 2009.

Or go to WJ, make a livable wage,maybe have a decent schedule etc. Sure it is not the perfect job, it is no "AC", but like I said given the choices what would you do.

BTW so what if people belittle Jazz, You don't work there, and you don't know what the morale is like there. So what do you care.

Jazz has the potential to retain their empoyees, they choose not too. So I don't blame people for jumping ship, neither should you.

Cheers

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:21 pm

BTW so what if people belittle Jazz, You don't work there, you don't care about Jazz, and you don't know what the morale is like there. So what do you care.

It's amazing the direction these threads take and the inaccuracies of our perception of each other. I don't work there but I used to. For the record, I do care about Jazz and like KAG I was faced with the same decision of wether to stay or go while I was there. My resumes were in at CAIL and AC, when AC called first. I admit life at Jazz back then was much better than it is today and so guys like Kag won't stick around. So it would seem we all agree except for the fact that I made the point that our friends at Jazz who like it there and plan to make a lifetime career there may not appreciate their company being called "nothing more than a stepping stone" company from a guy who went to WJ. With 2009 fast approaching, I'm confident the two groups can come up with an agreement that will make it easier for Jazz pilots to go to mainline if they choose to. If not, it won't be easy to keep people around but who are we to label it as a bygone company?

Hyster · Post by **Hyster** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:08 pm

Hey Tony, You say your confident that our two groups can come to an agreement before 2009. Who got cold feet last month...it wasnt our side? When it suits you then we will see results, until then you dont give a shit...but I hope your right. And I have yet to meet someone at Jazz whos happy like you say.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:39 pm

until then you dont give a shit...

Hyster.
Really? How do you know I don't?
Yep, maybe 2009 will come and go with no results. And of course as you say it's our fault, because you say so. So we'll just have to keep trying. I'm still pretty confident. I'm really sorry to hear about the bad moral. It ain't much better at the mainline these days. In the mean time, WJ are a great alternative and the best thing is you never again have to worry about mean old AC (sort of). I won't suggest the mainline cause it doesn't sound like an option.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:49 pm

tonysoprano wrote:
BTW so what if people belittle Jazz, You don't work there, you don't care about Jazz, and you don't know what the morale is like there. So what do you care.
So it would seem we all agree except for the fact that I made the point that our friends at Jazz who like it there and plan to make a lifetime career there may not appreciate their company being called "nothing more than a stepping stone" company from a guy who went to WJ.

What else do you call a company who is even considering hiring 200 hour pilots after the post Sept 11th era with a wealth of experience floating around the country? And turning down experienced guys I might add.
Company blames pilot shortage. Well the problem isn’t a pilot shortage, it’s pilot retention. While screaming pilot shortage, they decide the CA was misinterpreted in favor of the company and made it so the Jazz guys now work 85 hours instead of 75 for the same money (first 2 years only). All the while Jazz drivers are getting turned down by AC in extremely high numbers.
You disagree with me for saying Jazz is a stepping-stone, fair enough. And I certainly mean no disrespect to my friends and peers at Jazz. But when I was there, being bottom rung guy it made no sense to stay. So like I said before, for a young experienced driver, Jazz is a great stepping-stone.
For a senior CPT/FO, it’s a great lifestyle job I will say that.

Anyway, I'm done with this argument. It's kinda gotten off topic. We agree to disagree (again). Enjoy AC, I'll enjoy my koolaid, maybe we'll run across eachother on a layover, we'll have a beer and toast to our good fortune.

Good fortune being whatever makes you happy.

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:55 am

Okay Tony, Fair enough. I'll take back what I said about you not caring about Jazz and I have edited my last post.

Reality is. Jazz is probably not the place it was when you were here. You may not like it or appreciate this but unfortunetly it has become a "stepping stone" company. Newhire are not the only ones leaving, senior pilots are going as well. I did my line check with a trg Capt. that is leaving for Sunwing at the end of this month. He had 12 years at Jazz. He is not the only one too. Lot more going to Sunwing, WJ, Transat, Cathay, Emirates, even back to corporate, etc.......Why?

The friends that you speak of who may get offended are probably leaving themselves or encouraging others to leave.

I am at Jazz, and has been a good place to work. I like the airplane, the job. The people on the line, though most are jaded, are still a pretty good bunch. I did not come here to quit but to be honest, I don't like the direction our companies are taking, some ot the decisions being made, and 2009. Our groups were close to maikng a deal, but it all fell apart at the end........Again.

In the end, I don't take offence to people calling this place a stepping stone or leaving to WJ. It is a good move on their part. Maybe it is a good thing this is happening, it may cause things to change for the better though I am not holding my breath.......Only time will tell.

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:39 pm

Jazz is not a stepping stone, it is more like stepping in dogshit!!!

Management has destroyed morale at this place and seem to enjoy making it a shitty place to work!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:09 pm

I hate to make excuses for management but I think the Cerberus and GE people who "took over" after CCAA are running ACE like McDonald's all to collect their billions and leave us hanging in the near future. Things will improve but I think the worse is yet to come.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:55 pm

Tony,

you are right, the investment bankers are all about pulling cash from a company after it's turning a profit. However, had it not been for their (or any other investment bank) investment during CCAA, AC would be TU and none of us would be working there.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:34 pm

Bede.
Maybe. But I think Victor Li might have put more effort on building a better airline though and maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Captain S itmagnet · Post by **Captain S itmagnet** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:03 pm

If not Victor Li, then what about ONEX before him? I recall everyone running around fearing that the sky was about to fall if he bought in.
Either way this converation would not have been happening as cited above.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:19 am

Mr. JerryOnex runs a similar bisiness as Cerberus. We would still be in a mess. Vulture companies "prey" on the weak, strip them down to make their billions and then walk away. Sooner or later, AC will be a topic of discussion on the Hill in Ottawa. Just a matter of time.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:53 am

Dark Helmet wrote:Tony.

It is easy for you to judge people like KAG while sitting high on AC flying your 767 and making six figures. But put yourself in his shoes for a moment. Your flying for Jazz. You would love to fly for AC, you get the interview and then get turned down, why.........I don't know, maybe you are not AC material like many other good people at Jazz who got turned down by AC, go figure. The management comes up with a memo saying OOPS, sorry guys we are paying you too much. then WJ calls, realizes you are actually a good guy and offers you a job. What do you do?

Suck it up at Jazz living paycheque to paycheque while some six sigma black belt is pulling 6-7 figure bonuses. And then get screwed by both companies come 2009.

Wait for AC to start interviewng Jazz pilots again, hoping that maybe this time they will hire you. So you start all over again on the very bottom of the list a AC only ro get screwed again in 2009.

Or go to WJ, make a livable wage,maybe have a decent schedule etc. Sure it is not the perfect job, it is no "AC", but like I said given the choices what would you do.

BTW so what if people belittle Jazz, You don't work there, and you don't know what the morale is like there. So what do you care.

Jazz has the potential to retain their empoyees, they choose not too. So I don't blame people for jumping ship, neither should you.

Cheers

Excellent post, DH.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:19 am

...thanks guys. I really wasn't in the mood.

Hadji Ramjet · Post by **Hadji Ramjet** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:10 am

Mr. JerryOnex runs a similar bisiness as Cerberus. We would still be in a mess. Vulture companies "prey" on the weak, strip them down to make their billions and then walk away. Sooner or later, AC will be a topic of discussion on the Hill in Ottawa. Just a matter of time.

Neither Onex nor Cerberus operate as vultures. The track record of Onex has been of finding troubled companies that are not meeting their potential, and changing that situation, not stripping the assets for quick gain. It's unlikely that Onex would be selling off parts of the airline to provide short-term shareholder gain.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:54 am

Handji.
I know the Blue side was really hoping for Jerry. Who knows, maybe he was better but my sources tell me he would have done precisely what Cerberus is now doing, any way you call it.

Johnny767 · Post by **Johnny767** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:54 am

ACPA had the "No Onex" stickers.

ACPA told Victor Li, " to get on the next boat to China."

..and here we sit?

How would you like to be a 20 year AME working for Air Canada in Vancouver today, tossing your tool box in the trunk of your car?

Brick Head · Post by **Brick Head** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:11 pm

Hadji Ramjet wrote:
Neither Onex nor Cerberus operate as vultures. The track record of Onex has been of finding troubled companies that are not meeting their potential, and changing that situation, not stripping the assets for quick gain. It's unlikely that Onex would be selling off parts of the airline to provide short-term shareholder gain.

True they are not Vulture funds in the tradition sense. Buy it, break it up and sell it. They have evolved. Whether or not they no longer fit what we call today a Vulture or Hedge fund is a matter of opinion. After all they still extract or monetize value. The difference today is they try to leave behind companies that are a going concern.

As for Onex. I don't know about that? This is what they had to say about the Quantus purchase when it initially was proposed. And for the record Quantus was not a troubled company.

"This is a very good company, it's well run, its market is well protected, we think that it really has a quality service to offer on its international routes and we just feel that there's an opportunity to extract value," said Onex managing director Anthony Munk, who along with managing director Nigel Wright negotiated the deal

http://www.workopilas.com/servlet/Conte ... on=Finance

This is what an Aussie analyst figured was likely to happen if the bid was successful.

Qantas is a well-run airline that has a good lock on a wealthy market that travels a lot, Mr. Hueniken said, noting that the company's margins are also high. He said the new owners, if they land Qantas, may spin off divisions in order to pay down debt.

"There are assets that are not very productive, so first you put up the money and then you get some of it back as you sell off other pieces," Mr. Hueniken said. Candidates for a selloff include a unit that maintains aircraft for the Australian air force and an airline catering business. The buyers could also resell some of Qantas's planes through the leasing business that Macquarie owns.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/Business

Personally I think Quantus dodged a bullet.